The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[doctornick]

Based on what they've done in the past, repurposing attractions tends to provide a cheaper to run, dumbed down attraction in it's place. The fact that it's been reported that they want to do it 'fast' (TDO fast, not UNI fast) suggests that the standards we should expect to see from it should be lowered even further. I dont think the care they seemed to take with the FOTLK relocation will necessarily be repeated here.

I agree with the skepticism. However, there at least was a rumor that they would be redoing the entire setup with Maelstrom for Frozen -- using the current movie theater as part of the queue and adding it to the unload area to make a load/unload area combined (or sequential). Then the current load area would become the first show scene in the ride (and maybe they'd also do more with the lift, which is basically a dark room except Odin).
I'm not saying that I expect any greatness out of a Frozened Maelstrom ride, but it's possible that they could make the ride loader and with more stuff without really changing the layout much.

When I hear "cheap overlay" it doesn't really equate to "quality" in my mind. But maybe that's just me.

"Cheap overlay" is an opinion which has been filted through posters on the board. I'm pretty certain that the decision makers at Disney aren't planning for a "cheap overlay". They may be asking for a "quality overlay at a reasonable price", of course.

 

[Omnispace]

I almost agree totally. That's why I'm saying it is time to abandon the non-identifiable "E" ticket. Individuals are making the determination of what is an "E" right now. There is no official word from Disney and they are the only ones that can make an official determination.

What we should be looking at is does this appeal to us as individuals and not some arbitrary categorization in though the eyes of someone else. I think that is why Disney never came up with another system. There is only one way to evaluate any attraction and that is by participating, with an open mind, and then judging it by the affect that it has on us individually.

Some of the attractions are no brainers, individually. For example, to me, a high thrill roller-coaster would never be an "E" and I don't care how elaborate, expensive and themed it might be. It would always be an "F" to me. I hate them. I wouldn't pay extra to ride one as I wouldn't with Dumbo. It is an individual choice.

I always get a cringe when someone asks on a board, like this one, what should I skip. I found that many times, if you experience it, it is enjoyable and worthy of another ride, otherwise... it's a dud to me. Somethings like a roller-coaster or a spinner, I already know that I am not interested. Label it anything you want, it still will not gain my desire. We cannot tell others what they will like.

I think what bothers me the most is how we, as armchair engineers (or imagineers, if it makes us feel better) think that we can judge it. To me if there were anything that would constitute an "E" attraction it would be the degree of demand that the public gives it. Otherwise no letter in the world will make it successful.

Even when Disney used their A-B-C-D-E coupon system in the parks, it was still a matter of personal opinion on which attractions one would want to choose. My mother never deemed the Enchanted Tiki Room worthy of a precious "E" -- there were just too many other "E" attractions to go on. And how could Storybook Land Canal Boats be considered to be in a higher category than Adventure Thru Inner Space??!!

Obviously, Disney would use the value of the different coupons to even-out guests amongst the attractions in the parks. But in general, with the progressive development of more elaborate attractions, the newest and the greatest became consistently associated with the "E", and then on down the line.

I don't think there is any harm in anyone still using the old coupon designations to categorize the attractions. It's simply a way for fans to easily quantify their expectations of the new offerings. The debate is going to happen whether the old letters are used or not.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Its my understand that the letters A-E had to do with how many people/hr that could be accommodated.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Even when Disney used their A-B-C-D-E coupon system in the parks, it was still a matter of personal opinion on which attractions one would want to choose. My mother never deemed the Enchanted Tiki Room worthy of a precious "E" -- there were just too many other "E" attractions to go on. And how could Storybook Land Canal Boats be considered to be in a higher category than Adventure Thru Inner Space??!!

Obviously, Disney would use the value of the different coupons to even-out guests amongst the attractions in the parks. But in general, with the progressive development of more elaborate attractions, the newest and the greatest became consistently associated with the "E", and then on down the line.

I don't think there is any harm in anyone still using the old coupon designations to categorize the attractions. It's simply a way for fans to easily quantify their expectations of the new offerings. The debate is going to happen whether the old letters are used or not.

Exactly, we as guests don't now and never did have any say in what was a "E" or not. They were just stuck with that designation. Now even Disney doesn't attempt to imply that one is better then the other. Why do we insist on doing so. We cannot be objective and can only decide based on our personal taste with no solid references to make that determination.

That's why I say that if there is any logical way to make that determination it would be based on popularity (length of line) and not cost or thrill factor. Especially thrill factor. When the original letter determinations were made, thrill didn't even begin to enter into the decision, because that wasn't what guests at the time were looking for. It seems more that way now, but, like everything else in life, it too will cycle and some other personal desire will drive it.

 

[The Mom]

Its my understand that the letters A-E had to do with how many people/hr that could be accommodated.

I'm not sure about that. I think it had more to do with the typical amusement park ticket system at the time. The "bigger" more thrilling, or more intricate (expensive to build) attractions took more tickets. The mild, plainer ones took fewer. You could buy them at 10 cents each, or 12/$1, 25/$2 or 100/$5.

At my local park, the roller coaster, Haunted House, and other more elaborate rides etc took 4 or 5 tickets. Ferris Wheel, Satellite, Flying Fish, Octopus etc took 3 or 4, Whip, Fun House, Bumper Cars, etc took 2 or 3, and Kiddie Rides, train, etc, took 1. Tickets were 10 cents each. The more exciting the ride, the more tickets. Unless you went on dollar day - typically the first day of summer vacation. All you could ride from noon -6, and special prices for food.

So Walt devised a numerical system, and broke it down further. An E ticket would be equal to 5 tickets, etc. But I don't think you could buy individual tickets - you had to purchase a booklet with the assorted tickets? I'm sure one of the experts has more info.

 

[WDWFigment]

I have different memories of TDL.

Sure, there were some people who were dressed up; perhaps 5-10% of the guests, I guess. (One wonders how they are going to do a day in a hot, crowded theme park in those shoes.) The rest of the guests were dressed quite casually.

Beyond that, my memories of the guests were as follows:

• People are rude. A trip to TDL is a day where people bump into you all day pretty much nonstop without every recognizing the fact. If you crash onto someone, acknowledge it.
• People are rude. Umbrellas in crowded theme parks are not good ideas, but if you are going to try to use one, mind other people's heads. If you hit someone with your umbrella, acknowledge it.

Part of this may depend upon what time of year you visit, but my experiences at Tokyo Disney Resort (especially Tokyo DisneySea) couldn't be further from this.

For starters, kids and teens often wear their school uniforms to the parks as a sign of pride, and these school uniforms are usually reminiscent of New England prep school outfits. Try to find kids dressed like this in the US parks.

During the spring/summer season, I observed fewer guests dressed in school uniforms or business attire (e.g., suits and dresses), but people were generally well-dressed (excepting for those guests who dress as characters or in "interesting" character-motiffs--a small minority).

During Christmas-date season, almost every guest was sharply dressed, and I'd wager that 30%+ were wearing suits, sport coats, or dresses. Of course, all of these outfits were paired with ridiculous novelty hats, but those hats actually work as a 'whimsical touch' when the rest of your outfit looks nice.

My wife and I both felt very under-dressed during our Christmas visit, and we aren't the 'XXL and gym shorts' type of guests.

I've also never experienced anything close to rudeness by other guests, unless you want to count the morning run for FastPasses, but that's not rudeness, it's just good sport!

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I've never been to TDL or Japan, but my understanding is the lack of and invasion of personal space is a cultural thing, not a rude thing. You've got over 100 million people packed into that island chain so personal space is limited. I've seen movies and pictures of Tokyo where the sidewalks are just oceans of people walking on top of each other. So while it may seem rude to us, it's completely normal to them.

Umbrellas I have no idea about.

I agree. I've been to Tokyo (not the parks!), and it can be a zoo. BUT I've never found the people to be anything but super polite.

 

[tamotu99]

An E ticket attraction is one that will have mass appeal, and will likely be a driver or significant influence for someone to book the trip such as Expedtion Everest, Test Track, Tower of Terror, Space Mountain, they tend to be the more thrill rides, technically advanced (expensive to build) for their time and most popular rides in the park that they are in, most parks have 2 or 3 true e tickets at any one time (rides can stop being e tickets such as Tiki when the technology moves on and the ride doesnt). It is sometimes one of the icons of the park or is heavily used in marketing both when it is released and also for several years after

A D ticket attraction is similar to an E ticket but either the rides are on a slightly smaller scale or have a higher riderthroughput (is that a word) defining what is an d ticket is difficult is hard as some people will say its a c or an e based on their preferences but current possible e tickets include Kali River rapids, SSE (ish), Star Tours, Haunted Mansion

A C ticket is a more 'common' type ride, eg its a variation on a ride that you will find in many parks around, it wont be a thrill ride, but equally it will still be a good ride (some peoples favourite) it is unlikely to have any ground breaking technology, examples might be Primeval Whirl, voyage of the little mermaid, Fiesta Tour, Its a Small World

A B ticket, would be a pretty basic ride, that would appeal to a smallish market section, but would probably have rerideability for that segment, examples would be Triceratops Spin, the magic of Disney animation, Captain EO, Magic Carpets

An A ticket is not really a tradtional ride, but something that adds something to the park, and i think is currently severly lacking A tickets would be, Pagani Walking trail, Streets of America (sort of), the country entertainment (sort of) and the main street vehicles


You could orignally only buy a book with tickets in, you couldn't buy say all e tickets or all b tickets, this had a couple of effects, it tended to spread out ridership, with people doing things (such as main street vehicles) because they had a ticket to use for it, and it also meant people were having a lot of leftover tickets, it also allowed Disney to move attractions around the classifications to keep them popular and also to stop massive 3 hour queues forming

Some people would want mainly e tickets, some mainly b, and some would like a nice mixture, which is why i think todays system is much much better

 

[Lord_Vader]

I almost agree totally. That's why I'm saying it is time to abandon the non-identifiable "E" ticket. Individuals are making the determination of what is an "E" right now. There is no official word from Disney and they are the only ones that can make an official determination.

What we should be looking at is does this appeal to us as individuals and not some arbitrary categorization in though the eyes of someone else. I think that is why Disney never came up with another system. There is only one way to evaluate any attraction and that is by participating, with an open mind, and then judging it by the affect that it has on us individually.

Some of the attractions are no brainers, individually. For example, to me, a high thrill roller-coaster would never be an "E" and I don't care how elaborate, expensive and themed it might be. It would always be an "F" to me. I hate them. I wouldn't pay extra to ride one as I wouldn't with Dumbo. It is an individual choice.

I always get a cringe when someone asks on a board, like this one, what should I skip. I found that many times, if you experience it, it is enjoyable and worthy of another ride, otherwise... it's a dud to me. Somethings like a roller-coaster or a spinner, I already know that I am not interested. Label it anything you want, it still will not gain my desire. We cannot tell others what they will like.

I think what bothers me the most is how we, as armchair engineers (or imagineers, if it makes us feel better) think that we can judge it. To me if there were anything that would constitute an "E" attraction it would be the degree of demand that the public gives it. Otherwise no letter in the world will make it successful.

Remember the original E-Ticket rides were as follows:

It's a Small World
20,000 Leauges
Country Bear Jamboree
Jungle Cruise
Hall of Presidents
Haunted Mansion

Of these six attractions, Hall of Presidents and Country Bear Jamboree rarely have a wait and most showings are less than full to say the least and few people on these boards would acknowledge IASW, JC or HM as E-Tickets either because they have little to no thrill factor or generally have relatively low wait times.

Ticket ratings were based on a combination of cost to build and maintain with popularity. Today, 7DMT would be an E-Ticket because of the high cost to build and will be very popular for years to come based on reviews I have read so far while other former E-Tickets slip to C-D status because they become outdated or simply fall out of favor.

 

[Mike S]

Remember the original E-Ticket rides were as follows:

It's a Small World
20,000 Leauges
Country Bear Jamboree
Jungle Cruise
Hall of Presidents
Haunted Mansion

Of these six attractions, Hall of Presidents and Country Bear Jamboree rarely have a wait and most showings are less than full to say the least and few people on these boards would acknowledge IASW, JC or HM as E-Tickets either because they have little to no thrill factor or generally have relatively low wait times.

Ticket ratings were based on a combination of cost to build and maintain with popularity. Today, 7DMT would be an E-Ticket because of the high cost to build and will be very popular for years to come based on reviews I have read so far while other former E-Tickets slip to C-D status because they become outdated or simply fall out of favor.

To me Haunted Mansion is still an E ticket just for the theming and immersion alone. It's some of Disney's best work, even by today's standards.

 

[Lord_Vader]

To me Haunted Mansion is still an E ticket just for the theming and immersion alone. It's some of Disney's best work, even by today's standards.

Ohh, I agree with that completely it is one of my favorite attractions. I could ride it all day.

 

[Omnispace]

Exactly, we as guests don't now and never did have any say in what was a "E" or not. They were just stuck with that designation. Now even Disney doesn't attempt to imply that one is better then the other. Why do we insist on doing so. We cannot be objective and can only decide based on our personal taste with no solid references to make that determination.

That's why I say that if there is any logical way to make that determination it would be based on popularity (length of line) and not cost or thrill factor. Especially thrill factor. When the original letter determinations were made, thrill didn't even begin to enter into the decision, because that wasn't what guests at the time were looking for. It seems more that way now, but, like everything else in life, it too will cycle and some other personal desire will drive it.

I think people insist on using the old ticket designations because they are something that has become of our cultural lore. Especially the (slightly inaccurate) "E-ticket" designation has become synonymous for being the best. Matterhorn was "E" -- Space Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain were E's -- so towards the end of its run, the "E" ticket designation was becoming associated with thrill rides as well. I see no problem with people still using it to express their opinion on an attraction. I'm positive that people argued whether something was worthy of an "E" or a "D" even when the system was still in use.

Just a minor point on the inaccuracy. In keeping with the "Disneyspeak" at the parks -- the tickets were referred to as "coupons" -- perhaps as a way to set Disney further apart from the amusement park folks.

Edit: Looks like Disney referred to them as tickets in their guidebooks so the terms were officially used interchangeably.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I think people insist on using the old ticket designations because they are something that has become of our cultural lore. Especially the (slightly inaccurate) "E-ticket" designation has become synonymous for being the best. Matterhorn was "E" -- Space Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain were E's -- so towards the end of its run, the "E" ticket designation was becoming associated with thrill rides as well. I see no problem with people still using it to express their opinion on an attraction. I'm positive that people argued whether something was worthy of an "E" or a "D" even when the system was still in use.

Just a minor point on the inaccuracy. In keeping with the "Disneyspeak" at the parks -- the tickets were referred to as "coupons" -- perhaps as a way to set Disney further apart from the amusement park folks.

You're right about the coupons, but, since they haven't existed for 21 years it hardly matters.

 

[Omnispace]

So Walt devised a numerical system, and broke it down further. An E ticket would be equal to 5 tickets, etc. But I don't think you could buy individual tickets - you had to purchase a booklet with the assorted tickets? I'm sure one of the experts has more info.

The ticket books were purchased at the main gate and offered different quantities of tickets at different price points: "15 Adventures", "11 Adventures", etc... They offered a discounted price for buying all your tickets up-front. The ticket books included admission, which is why a ticket book used for admission is missing its cover -- that cover was torn off at the main gate. If one ran out of "D" tickets and wanted to ride Skyway, then additional tickets could be purchased for full price within the park. But one could also purchase just admission to the park itself and use leftover tickets from past visits. That's my recollection from visiting Disneyland back in the day.

As for the quality of the attraction based upon ticket designation?.... everything at Disneyland was considered to be quality, (no doubt MK as well). But for the monetary value of the ticket, nothing would beat a ride on the King Arthur Carousel. It was an extremely affordable "A" ticket.

Edit: For reference back to 1976; "A" Coupon = $.10, which is $.42 today. "E" Coupon = .90, which is $3.75 today. Adult admission to Disneyland plus 15 Adventures "The Deluxe 15" = $7.50, which is $31.25 today (5-E's, 4-D's, 3-C's, 2-B's, 1-A).

Oh! And reading through my 1976 guide here, one could also buy additional books of discounted tickets inside the park.

 

[Stevek]

Couldn't agree more.

And every time someone says its only a half day park, i just feel sorry that they clearly miss out on a lot that park has to offer, because it is not a half day, it has some of the very best detail and theming of any Florida park and the lands also flow together very nicely it isnt such a jarring change as in some other places

That doesnt mean i am opposed to them adding more the park, to make it a multi day park

I've only been to DAK 2x and in both instances, we stayed the entire day and weren't able to do everything. Definitely not a half day park in my book.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Remember the original E-Ticket rides were as follows:

It's a Small World
20,000 Leauges
Country Bear Jamboree
Jungle Cruise
Hall of Presidents
Haunted Mansion

Of these six attractions, Hall of Presidents and Country Bear Jamboree rarely have a wait and most showings are less than full to say the least and few people on these boards would acknowledge IASW, JC or HM as E-Tickets either because they have little to no thrill factor or generally have relatively low wait times.

Ticket ratings were based on a combination of cost to build and maintain with popularity. Today, 7DMT would be an E-Ticket because of the high cost to build and will be very popular for years to come based on reviews I have read so far while other former E-Tickets slip to C-D status because they become outdated or simply fall out of favor.

The Haunted Mansion does not have a line because it is unpopular. It does not have a line because it was designed to accommodate it's own popularity. Same with it's a small world. While the presence of a line can be indicative of popularity, the absence of one does not always reflect a lack-thereof. Some attractions just have brilliantly designed ride systems that account for high guest output ability

If you went on Monday and used an E-Ticket to ride Splash Mountain, and then on Tuesday used one to ride Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, wouldn't you feel gypped? The attraction is simply not of E-Ticket caliber, and was designed with that intention very much in mind. They did not set out to build an attraction of the most exciting level, and they didn't. Just because people are excited and there are long lines does not mean it's among their 'best in show'. Dumbo and Peter Pan were known in their histories to have lines just as long.

 

[fosse76]

Only if Disney knows about the infringement. If Disney knows and allows the continued infringement then they seriously risk losing their rights. Disney doesn't get a choice in the matter.

Not true. Lack of enforcement, however, does make it difficult to win damages in a lawsuit. But as long as the copyright is valid (as defined by U.S. Copyright law), Disney (or any rightsholder) can enforce its copyright ownership.

 

[BrianLo]

Time to jump out in front of a rumor and make a whole new set of enemies...

The Avatar boat ride has not been pushed back and there is no Phase 2. There is what WDI and Cameron's firm agreed upon to build and nothing else. Whatever pressures exist from operations side or Burbank to reduce budgets, they are what they are. But they cannot derail this project. Perhaps this is why such a weak slate of attractions is planned for WDW until 2017?

There is an aerial photo going around that shows the construction site as of yesterday or the day before. The site has been cleared literally to the fullest extent possible with the intent of utilizing every inch of it. That doesn't speak of a project that suddenly experienced cutbacks.

I think maybe a lot of people *want* to hear that this boat ride has been cancelled and that is why this rumor is going around so fast. But is not true. Sorry.

Highlighting this again because I missed it and it's worth re-iterating.

Certainly WDW bashers want it to be true, but based on the number of likes your post has received apparently we all really want the boat ride.

Don't think I've ever seen a post with so many likes here (and it's about Avatar fully coming, not even being cancelled), good news for once!

 

[PhotoDave219]

Villains party is announced, Steve with it first.

 

[alissafalco]

Villains party is announced, Steve with it first.

Im surprised its for only 1 night. I would think they would extend it into the halloween season.