The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

Mike S

Well-Known Member
I just like the improv comedy. Its the one thing that can watch at Epcot that will always make me laugh.

Beyond that, it would take a lot of beer to explain the thought processes. Mostly the abhorant hypocrisy of the epcot fanboiz that are bemoaning this change but are perfectly fine with cutting original entertainment that have been here since Day 1. (WSP & Fife/Drum)

What irritates me is that it seems like everyone is cranky because the changes Disney is proposing doesnt fit their vision of what this theme park should be. People rally around the cries of original Future World attractions like Horizons, WOM, Imag part 1, and scream ad nauseum about cutting original things but when it comes to Entertainment, they have no problem with it. There appears to be a giant double standard with that part of the fanbase and it just irritates the hell out of me.
I put my thoughts in the earlier pages of that thread but unwatched it because I was in Disney and I wasn't going to try to keep up with it since it was moving MUCH faster than the others. I think it's all bad when put together but some of these acts I haven't seen so it's hard for me have my own real opinion about them leaving. I understand the problem with it and honestly the fife & drum corps leaving without any kind of replacement is the one that hits me the most and doesn't make any sense.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
I've been wondering which park they'll choose as well. I'll put my money on TDL mainly because the park appears, and you could speak to this better than I, to desperately need capacity.

With having no actual numbers whatsoever to back it up (and I'm way too lazy to figure out said numbers), TDL definitely has higher capacity than TDS and both pull roughly similar attendance. Both though are pretty good capacity wise in the grand scheme of things. Neither outrageously under-built, but they could both use additions.


IIRC, TDL's last net gain in capacity was Hunny Hunt in '99.

While Monsters Ride and Go Seek replaced Meet the World, it was a good seven years that Meet the World was closed for. It's definitely TDL's "turn" to get something, but OLC has been light on investments recently and really needs something big for both parks before the end of the decade. I know @Lee was not impressed with Frozen appearing in TDS, but I really feel like it's a fantastic fit, especially if OLC spends the money to do it right (which they probably will).
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
I have no problem with certain Disney characters doing M&Gs in WS. Mulan, Snow White and Cinderella have direct ties to the folklore of their respective countries. Frozen was based on a story written by a Dane, based on a Russian folk tale. Only the Disney bastardization of the story has even a hint of Scandinavian culture. But none the less isn't Norwegian. Period.

They are building "Frozen" the ride, not the Snow Queen. One was very loosely inspired by (not based on) the other. WDAS was very upfront well before the movie released that it took place in Norway. The location research trips were to Norway. It's certainly convenient that Epcot contains a Norwegian pavilion with a lacklustre ride to overlay, but that's a happy coincidence that WDI can now lazily use. Of course Norway and Denmark were under the same rule anyways when the movie likely takes place (and for Hans Christian Anderson's childhood).

I think a better argument is Frozen takes place in a far too fictional version of Norway to actually be representative of the country. It's a fictional story that takes place in a fictional version of a country. Whereas properties like Ratatouille (or Mary Poppins) are fictional stories that takes place in mostly "non-fictional" versions of Paris/London.

It may not be 'Norwegian enough', but that doesn't change the fact that's where WDAS very purposely set the movie and has always advertised it as such, well before the popularity.

Since it's a done-deal at this stage, I just hope it's actually a worthwhile ride. If it's an amazing attraction, most people will get over the thematic breech... the problem is it seems like they are going to be somewhat lazy with this one (as is par for the course with TDO).
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I just like the improv comedy. Its the one thing that can watch at Epcot that will always make me laugh.

Beyond that, it would take a lot of beer to explain the thought processes. Mostly the abhorant hypocrisy of the epcot fanboiz that are bemoaning this change but are perfectly fine with cutting original entertainment that have been here since Day 1. (WSP & Fife/Drum)

What irritates me is that it seems like everyone is cranky because the changes Disney is proposing doesnt fit their vision of what this theme park should be. People rally around the cries of original Future World attractions like Horizons, WOM, Imag part 1, and scream ad nauseum about cutting original things but when it comes to Entertainment, they have no problem with it. There appears to be a giant double standard with that part of the fanbase and it just irritates the hell out of me.
You're mad at you're own pretend world. Nobody is arguing Maelstrom should stay because it is original. Plenty of people are upset about the Entertainment changes. You're also complaining about people wanting "their vision" when you just keep whining that people are not more upset about what bothers you.
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
I care, but I don't care. I think it is because of a rather lengthy list of decisions like this that I don't really care. Then again, I don't go any more either. So there we are.
Yeah, this is how I feel. Maelstrom was a nothing ride. I would have loved a more Viking-centric ride with a cruise through an enchanted forest with all sorts of trolls and norwegian mythical creatures... That's not what it was. And in five years that's how people are going to remember it, instead of a 2 minute ride, with a dated Troll AA in a really bad forest show scene, with a Polar bear and an oil rig. I know its loved by some and I agree that it's a continuation of the dumbing down of WS. But what are you going to do?

If anything we can hope with the insane popularity and ridiculous lines that will come for the ride, it will force them to actually build up WS to level it out. The bad news for some... it will probably mean a Ratatouille clone in France... but I won't be mad at that.
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
Other entertainers have come and gone and you have never lost it like this.

You must be new here. ;) (And by new, I mean joined since the the Adventurers Club/Comedy Warehouse were shut down--which is pushing 6 years, so a lot of you probably missed that Internet meltdown. But it makes the current EPCOT situation look like nothing.)

ETA: It is one of the few original EPCOT Center things left tho. Think of it as a Carousel of Progress that's actually remained entertaining and still capable of drawing a crowd..
 

Lee

Adventurer
I know @Lee was not impressed with Frozen appearing in TDS, but I really feel like it's a fantastic fit, especially if OLC spends the money to do it right (which they probably will).
Actually, I don't mind it going into TDS (and it likely is).
From what I here it will make for a spectacular port, and make the Maelstrom makeover look like the cheap, rush job that it is.
($75ish million compared to an estimated $450-500mil from OLC. Discuss.)
 
Last edited:

misterID

Well-Known Member
Actually, I don't mind it going into TDS (and it likely is).
From what I here it will make for a spectacular port, and make the Maelstrom makeover look like the cheap, rush job that it is.
($75ish million compared to an estimated $450-500mil from OLC. Discuss.)

Wow. Just wow.

Wasn't there supposed to be a Winter Wonderland thing that was part of the FLE expansion at one point.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Actually, I don't mind it going into TDS (and it likely is).
From what I here it will make for a spectacular port, and make the Maelstrom makeover look like the cheap, rush job that it is.
($75ish million compared to an estimated $450-500mil from OLC. Discuss.)
mdn.gif
 

suburbianj

Active Member
Given an 18 month construction time line, it could be possible. The time line suggests something greater than a simple overlay. It would be highly disappointing if this project results in an overlay.

eighteen months is JUST enough time for them to do an overlay and put the meet and greet in,id be VERY surprised if there was an extension to the Norway pavilion.....disney has two speeds for building things...slow and super slow,and they cant say quality takes time to build....diagon alley was done in not much longer than Disney has put aside to do frozen at Norway,and look at how DA ended up,visually stunning,to me this is truly frightening!
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
You must be new here. ;) (And by new, I mean joined since the the Adventurers Club/Comedy Warehouse were shut down--which is pushing 6 years, so a lot of you probably missed that Internet meltdown. But it makes the current EPCOT situation look like nothing.)

ETA: It is one of the few original EPCOT Center things left tho. Think of it as a Carousel of Progress that's actually remained entertaining and still capable of drawing a crowd..
Is it too early to start #SaveCOP? I wonder what the uproar for that will be.

I'm wondering if the Tomorrowland movie might help it's chances at a proper rufurb and life extension
 

CDavid

Well-Known Member
Oh FFS.... its a **** theme park.

If Epcot was curing cancer, I might care more about this. Instead its a 2nd rate dark ride that is in dire need of repair as it is. Its short, has no story and a grand total of four scenes.

Righteous indignation aside, I'm done caring. People are selfish. They only want the parks in their own image.

And fwiw World Showcase Players, one of the original shows at Epcot, closes on Thursday 9/25.

Sure, Epcot is just a theme park, but it is a theme park which once aspired to loftier goals than just amusement rides or even the themed environments of the Magic Kingdom. The loss of Maelstrom and the long-time entertainment are both travesties which further compromise what's left of the park's original purpose. Indeed, both events occurring so close together just reinforces the extent of the decline.

People keep asking where all the love for Maelstrom was before the announced/rumored closure, but it is equally valid to ask where all the criticism and poor opinions of the ride were before now, too. The general concensus seemed to be Maelstrom was a nice little ride in a World Showcase very much lacking in proper attractions; Posters certainly weren't loudly pronouncing its shortcomings to all who would listen. Every attraction probably has its fans, and you would expect them to stand up for a personal favorite which is endangered, but much of the criticism - even where accurate - is misplaced. It is, as you state, in too many ways a "second rate dark ride", has always been much too short, and begs a refurbishment. But that's not the point.

The real problem lies in what is to replace Maelstrom - Frozen, set in a fictional country amongst the nations of the Earth in World Showcase. That has absolutely nothing to do with the relative merits of the Maelstrom attraction or what any of us think of it personally, nor anyone's opinion on what direction park development should take; The thematic inappropriateness of Frozen in Norway is based on a standard set by Disney itself back in 1982. If the attraction were being shuttered to construct a new Norwegian boat ride on the scale of the Western River Expedition, I doubt there would be nearly the debate.

I just like the improv comedy. Its the one thing that can watch at Epcot that will always make me laugh.

Beyond that, it would take a lot of beer to explain the thought processes. Mostly the abhorant hypocrisy of the epcot fanboiz that are bemoaning this change but are perfectly fine with cutting original entertainment that have been here since Day 1. (WSP & Fife/Drum)

What irritates me is that it seems like everyone is cranky because the changes Disney is proposing doesnt fit their vision of what this theme park should be. People rally around the cries of original Future World attractions like Horizons, WOM, Imag part 1, and scream ad nauseum about cutting original things but when it comes to Entertainment, they have no problem with it. There appears to be a giant double standard with that part of the fanbase and it just irritates the hell out of me.

There any many of us, I believe, who have a huge problem with the entertainment cuts - for a multi-billion dollar company, how much money can they really save changing a few entertainment groups in a theme park? It's a ludicrous way to manage such a successful enterprise. Granted, Maelstrom has sort of stolen the thunder, and while I'm sure there are some posters who don't care about either (the level of ambivalence in this country is scary - on far more important topics!), that doesn't make the cuts in entertainment any more palatable. The general decline in standards, and management practices which often seem hilariously out of touch, is just appalling.
 

DisUniversal

Well-Known Member
eighteen months is JUST enough time for them to do an overlay and put the meet and greet in,id be VERY surprised if there was an extension to the Norway pavilion.....disney has two speeds for building things...slow and super slow,and they cant say quality takes time to build....diagon alley was done in not much longer than Disney has put aside to do frozen at Norway,and look at how DA ended up,visually stunning,to me this is truly frightening!
I'm not expecting much more than an overlay, however went and looked up the last two overlay's they did and seems like they can do them in far less time than they've allotted for the Frozen makeover.

El Rio del Tiempo -> El Rio del Crappo (aka Gran Fiesta Tour Starring The Three Caballeros) took only about 3 months.

Test Track -> Hot Wheels the Ride took about 8 months.

If they really are giving themselves 16 months or so to do Frozen, we might actually see something more than the three headed troll wearing Anna, Elsa and Olaf masks from Party City.
 

EPCOTCenterLover

Well-Known Member
eighteen months is JUST enough time for them to do an overlay and put the meet and greet in,id be VERY surprised if there was an extension to the Norway pavilion.....disney has two speeds for building things...slow and super slow,and they cant say quality takes time to build....diagon alley was done in not much longer than Disney has put aside to do frozen at Norway,and look at how DA ended up,visually stunning,to me this is truly frightening!
Only slow for attractions- not DVC expansions!
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I'm a big boat ride fan. If we lose a boat ride for yet another omnimover, can we please get another boat ride elsewhere in Epcot?

Seriously...Epcot already has Spaceship Earth and Nemo. We don't need another omnimover in the park. (That'd be what, 6 omnimovers at the WDW resort?)
You want another omnimover? Build one at DHS....or DAK. Those parks need those kinds of rides.
I'm a big fan of boat rides too. I'm not saying I like or want any of this. It's not up to me. If it was Maelstrom would get a refurb and remain while Frozen would go to MK or DHS.

Replacing the boat ride system with an omnimover is just speculation. I have no inside information. 18 months seems way too long for a simple overlay so I was speculating that they may consider a switch out of the ride system. I like boat rides, but the downside is Maelstrom had low capacity. It is going to be wildly popular so the lines will be insane without adding capacity.
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
Besides watching Maelstrom ride videos on closing day, I'm gonna see if Troll Hunter is still on Netflix and watch it again. Now there's a movie that'd fit along well with the ride, it even features a three headed troll.

 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom