The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[Mike S]

Sadly, I don't.
(Where do you suppose @marni1971 got that one...)

I really hope Disney officially releases more art of it. Knowing them it'll be a D23 event.

 

[BrerJon]

Disney owns an apartment complex? That's new to me! I know they developed Little Lake Bryan and sold it.

Yup, it developed the area then sold off everything that wasn't it's own housing complexes, but within that land it still owns four large complexes for CPs and Epcot Cultural Reps, as well as the cast recreation area.

Pretty much everything south of the Premium Outlets is Disney property, but nothing they'd ever use for guest purposes.

 

[Cesar R M]

It might help, but it's really a matter of cost for most conference attendees I know. I hear folks quite regularly going to Orlando for all number of conventions, and most of them don't go to WDW because they'd only have a day or two, and even if they know about the slight discounts on convention related WDW tickets (they keep them relatively hidden on the website, I find you have to Google search to get to them, but maybe that's just me), they still aren't that great of a savings. They do offer the after 2PM/4PM tickets, but when you add parking, etc. - it's still pretty darn expensive to just hop over and enjoy some park time.

I am going to a convention in February, and they do indeed provide secret links to get the lower prices (in my case, 150 USD for a moderate room per night). Almost reminds me of the "unlisted" type link you can create in youtube.com , cannot be seen in any search engine, but can be shared directly.

 

[tirian]

It doesn't matter if they attracted more guests.

The point is it attracted more revenue.

I know I keep repeating myself but it's going to be a drum beat until it starts to sink in. The only thing that matters to Glendale is revenue.

You're right. I wish that weren't how they operated the company today, but it is.

 

[tirian]

The "Ice Age "site has an article about it today.

http://micechat.com/80259-frozen-world-showcase/

As usual, the overall statements would be more impactful if there were a real editor who knew the differences among pray/prey, it's/its, lose/loose, and you're/your.

WDW needs a permanent Frozen attraction and the work inside Seven Dwarfs Mine Train gives me hope that WDI could do beautiful work with sparkling ice formations. However, the tiny Norway pavilion is not the right place to shoehorn insanely popular fantasy characters.

 

[danv3]

The "Ice Age "site has an article about it today.

http://micechat.com/80259-frozen-world-showcase/

As usual, the overall statements would be more impactful if there were a real editor who knew the differences among pray/prey, it's/its, lose/loose, and you're/your.

WDW needs a permanent Frozen attraction and the work inside Seven Dwarfs Mine Train gives me hope that WDI could do beautiful work with sparkling ice formations. However, the tiny Norway pavilion is not the right place to shoehorn insanely popular fantasy characters.

I can agree with the idea that Frozen and Tangled belong in Fantasyland or maybe the Studios. He kind of lost me with the idea that iasw should move to EPCOT. I don't see that as a thenmatic fit nor is it even realistic enough from a cost perspective to be discussed.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

This is a prime example of the hyperbole created when nostalgia, romantic notions of what never was, and the irrationality of not accepting what is clearly in high public demand and shows no signs of slowing down.

* "Characters don't belong in Epcot!" - Characters have been a part of Epcot since it opened, I can show you pictures of me with Space Minnie from the 80's, and pictures of meeting the World Showcase double-decker "Character Bus" that used to bring them out there (I believe Chip and Dale used to run with that crowd).

* There is no "slippery slope" here as is being implied - unless Disney is suddenly going to spend the money and build attractions at more countries, this was it folks. And you know what? If Disney does want to build more attractions - heck, since they build so few, at least they would be building something, LOL. That said, I do not for one second think you have to worry - the rest of WS will remain as stagnant as it has been for the last quarter century for your continued shopping and substance consumption enjoyment.

* The ride everyone is kvetching about replacing was ALREADY seen by many long-time observers as the first shot in the "ruination" of the edutainment aspect of Epcot to begin with. There is nothing educational nor specifically historical about it - a ride largely of darkness with some brief show scenes with references to esoteric Gods and encounters with mythical Trolls, and suddenly an oil rig is involved. At least now folks will know what the bloody heck is going on in the attraction and it will have some cohesiveness.

This is coming from someone who is only a theme park fan because of dark rides, and I've always had a soft spot for Maelstrom in particular because of it's quirky nature - but as I said before, blindfold someone, bring them to the ride vehicle, remove the blindfold, and let them ride - if you asked them when they got off maybe 1 out of a 100 would have said "oh, Norway!" That's why they have that tacky film at the end (which for the past decade has been the only thing anyone has ever discussed about the attraction - more specifically - how to get around watching it).




I can't speak for the fans of the film. I'm not one, at least yet (though I do quite like Kristin Bell). Truth be told, haven't even seen it (though I'm thinking I might finally do so this weekend, this has all piqued my interest). Yet, I know all the characters names, the plot, the songs - because it's so popular and has struck such a chord with audiences.

That said, you just told the story of every attraction pretty much ever. Yes, it would be great if Disney built a big castle in Fantasyland and put a great dark ride in there. Oh wait, they did that with TLM - but some folks around these parts consider that a failure.

I don't think this is perfect, nor the best thing that could have happened - the point is, a lot more folks are going to be pleased and excited about a Frozen attraction than ever were about the confusing juxtaposition of elements that is the Maelstrom, as much as I enjoy quirky dark rides. This does nothing to change WS except give it an attraction that folks actually will want to seek out - but like I said, don't worry - the rest of it will remain the stagnant museum with the revolving door of restaurants that it always has been, Frozen isn't going to change that.

Doesn't change anything? Please point to another pavilion showcasing the people and culture of a fictional country.

You Disney apologists are breath taking in your Cirque-esque mental gymnastics to rationalize the moves of the omnipotent "Disney". So coherent themeing isn't important to theme parks. Rip out the Bijutsu-kan Gallery and replace it with a Big Hero 6 M&G. San Fransokyo is as real as Arendelle

And "people aren't interested in history and culture. They just want to be entertained. Well **** might as well bulldoze the Smithsonian. History and culture aren't important. Well, at least the history and culture of Norway.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

And I am on good authority that this is a prototype of the State of the Art Troll AA's that TDO will be using.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

The "Ice Age "site has an article about it today.

http://micechat.com/80259-frozen-world-showcase/

As usual, the overall statements would be more impactful if there were a real editor who knew the differences among pray/prey, it's/its, lose/loose, and you're/your.

WDW needs a permanent Frozen attraction and the work inside Seven Dwarfs Mine Train gives me hope that WDI could do beautiful work with sparkling ice formations. However, the tiny Norway pavilion is not the right place to shoehorn insanely popular fantasy characters.

Storybook Circus seems like the natural candidate for a Frozen area.

 

[pumpkin7]

They have plenty of room to add a new attraction without mutilating an old one.
Or perhaps they shouldn't worry about new attractions and sort out the old ones.
Or perhaps they should listen to the people on FB who say 'but Frozen will bring added revenue to Epcot'.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

I really hope Disney officially releases more art of it. Knowing them it'll be a D23 event.

You ARE the Last to Pass Dees Way

$149.99 per person for:

-ONE (1) ride on the attraction
-dessert buffet consisting of food you can already get at Kringla
-Olaf dance party
-attraction will actually close two weeks after the event

$1,199.99 per person for:
-all of the above, PLUS a sweater from the gift shop

 

[BrianLo]

I find the announcement equally strange, why not include this in the Frozen special? The demographic watching it would have been the most receptive. It's like Avatar skipping out on D23 to show up in Tokyo (but we know the motivation there was to sell OLC on Avatar).

I'm not really upset, at least something is happening at EPCOT. It's the sanctity of the world showcase that's perhaps bemoaning, but for the general public I don't think it is really that much of a thematic gymnastics.

Really there were only two options with Disney these days - EPCOT rots for another 10 years until literally no one cares, or it gets laterally better down a different avenue and some stop caring immediately. If they are going to "ruin" the place, I hope the attractions are actually good in the process.


Onto the "good" Frozen. TDR should make this a real treat. I noticed @WDW1974 never actually mentioned the specific park. It seems to me we have one expansion pad in TDS, the speedway in TDL or wherever those height balloons were flown back in around splash mountain.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Onto the "good" Frozen. TDR should make this a real treat. I noticed @WDW1974 never actually mentioned the specific park. It seems to me we have one expansion pad in TDS, the speedway in TDL or wherever those height balloons were flown back in around splash mountain.

I've been wondering which park they'll choose as well. I'll put my money on TDL mainly because the park appears, and you could speak to this better than I, to desperately need capacity. When OLC is doing CBA on removing the Rivers of America, you know the park needs more capacity. IIRC, TDL's last net gain in capacity was Hunny Hunt in '99. There is a good bit of irony in discussing Frozen in TDS because they proposed a Broadway style Snow Queen show for that park. Supposedly they, I want to say BoJack Eisner, thought it would be a great idea for a feature. Michael was just 15 years early and it appears that was a hunch worth pursuing!

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I have no problem with certain Disney characters doing M&Gs in WS. Mulan, Snow White and Cinderella have direct ties to the folklore of their respective countries. Frozen was based on a story written by a Dane, based on a Russian folk tale. Only the Disney bastardization of the story has even a hint of Scandinavian culture. But none the less isn't Norwegian. Period.

Then again, Radiator Springs isn't in California, and Persian flying carpets and camels aren't indigenous to French Polynesia.

 

[Lee]

I've been wondering which park they'll choose as well. I'll put my money on TDL...

I wouldn't...

 

[lazyboy97o]

I've been wondering which park they'll choose as well. I'll put my money on TDL mainly because the park appears, and you could speak to this better than I, to desperately need capacity. When OLC is doing CBA on removing the Rivers of America, you know the park needs more capacity. IIRC, TDL's last net gain in capacity was Hunny Hunt in '99. There is a good bit of irony in discussing Frozen in TDS because they proposed a Broadway style Snow Queen show for that park. Supposedly they, I want to say BoJack Eisner, thought it would be a great idea for a feature. Michael was just 15 years early and it appears that was a hunch worth pursuing!

Wizarding World it and just have access from both parks. I'd expect Tokyo DisneySEA because it could help shift a bit more of the attendance to that park. Either way, due to social norms and design the crowding at Tokyo Disney Resort is rather well self-regulated. If there is a long wait you get in line and wait.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

A delightful boat ride through the FROZEN landscape sounds fu......wait. Boat ride....frozen??? How's this gonna work again?

 

[spacemt354]

That said...where is all this educational stuff in WS?

The pavilions themselves. The aesthetic features of the buildings, the architecture, the cast members, the food, the entertainment (now lacking) all contribute to incorporating education into the featured entertainment.

Sure, some guests might treat World Showcase as a pub crawl. But others appreciate the detail and story behind each one of the nations. There are films to depict the history of the countries, restaurants with food native to the lands served by people from the nations. The American Adventure is still one of my favorite shows at any Disney theme park. One of the best examples of how you can be educated by entertainment.

When people go to World Showcase to eat, drink, or shop, there is still a cultural aspect to the location that allows for some type of learning to take place. Every time I travel through the nations I find out something new, by either reading certain stories myself or talking with cast members.

Was Maelstrom the most educational ride? No. Nor was it the most enjoyable for me. One of the underlying reasons we would ride it was that it was one of the only things to ride in WS. If there was an attraction at every pavilion it wouldn't have been a "must-do" each trip because there would be more to do. That doesn't mean it has to be overtaken by Frozen though.

And nostalgia is a tricky thing. Obviously World of Motion, and Horizons to an extent were replaced by attractions that are much more popular (in terms of wait times). In 10-15 years, it will be curious if Maelstrom is put on the same pedestal as extinct "nostalgic" Epcot attractions such as WoM, Horizons, 20K, etc

Personally I wouldn't put it on that high regard. I would grade it a bit lower than "nostalgic" but not so low that it isn't memorable.

 

[AEfx]

The pavilions themselves. The aesthetic features of the buildings, the architecture, the cast members, the food, the entertainment (now lacking) all contribute to incorporating education into the featured entertainment.

Some good observations, but on this point...all that stuff (aside from the entertainment, which is a separate issue, one which I agree on) is still there though. So when folks talk about this "loss" I don't see it because all that stuff can still be had. They should be raging about the Entertainment loss, because that actually WAS direct cultural content. But it got very little attention, but since this has to do with characters, and specifically Frozen, which has this irrational online backlash on certain Disney sites, it's suddenly the end of the world for some.

The loss of entertainment is way, way more impactful than replacing one loosely based fictional fantasy ride with another loosely based fictional fantasy ride, aside from the fact that a whole lot more folks are going to be going to WS now.

And nostalgia is a tricky thing. Obviously World of Motion, and Horizons to an extent were replaced by attractions that are much more popular (in terms of wait times). In 10-15 years, it will be curious if Maelstrom is put on the same pedestal as extinct "nostalgic" Epcot attractions such as WoM, Horizons, 20K, etc

I'd put forth that wait times are not necessarily indicative of popularity - particularly across ride types. You'd have to ask @marni1971 or perhaps @lentesta - but those were continuously moving rides, vs. a cycle ride like M:S or a dispatched vehicle ride like Test Track. They would know more than I would on that, but I have a feeling that because of ride styles and being all-inclusive rides without height restrictions, WoM and Horizons probably serviced more guests daily than their successors.

 

[DisUniversal]

And nostalgia is a tricky thing. Obviously World of Motion, and Horizons to an extent were replaced by attractions that are much more popular (in terms of wait times). In 10-15 years, it will be curious if Maelstrom is put on the same pedestal as extinct "nostalgic" Epcot attractions such as WoM, Horizons, 20K, etc.

When is the last time you saw a significant wait for Mission Space? Typically every time I've gone it's been in the 10, maybe 15 minute range...which was about the same for Horizons which like Spaceship Earth was a continuous load. Test Track seems to have a long wait in large part because it's a poorly designed, unreliable attraction with an inefficient load cycle. 3 across seating doesn't help either...at least not outside of the single riders line.