The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
It's interesting how we never really heard of Malestrom being "beloved" until the Frozen rumors began. People only seem to care because it's from "old" EPCOT, not because it's a quality attraction. Was easily one of the worst attractions in WDW, bested only by Stitch imo.
I never heard of Maelstrom being so "underwhelming" either until the Frozen rumors began. People seem to only care because its a movie thats "new", not because it fits thematically. The overlay could easily be one of the cheapest rides ever created by Disney.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The overlay could easily be one of the cheapest rides ever created by Disney.

It could, or it could be a little better than anticipated. They are spending 18 months doing something. The Frozen parade and fireworks show this summer were thrown together at the last minute. If they were just going to add a few animated figures from the movie into the existing ride I would think there would be a major push to have it open by summer 2015 even at Disney's glacial pace. Hopefully we get some more details soon on exactly what the new ride will be. I'm not holding out any hope that it will be longer than the original Maelstrom or that the show building will be expanded, but it could at least have some decent AAs. Think Mine Train in a boat. The meet and greet better have a new building or something because there is not going to be enough room for the ride queue and M&G in the current space.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
It could, or it could be a little better than anticipated. They are spending 18 months doing something. The Frozen parade and fireworks show this summer were thrown together at the last minute. If they were just going to add a few animated figures from the movie into the existing ride I would think there would be a major push to have it open by summer 2015 even at Disney's glacial pace. Hopefully we get some more details soon on exactly what the new ride will be. I'm not holding out any hope that it will be longer than the original Maelstrom or that the show building will be expanded, but it could at least have some decent AAs. Think Mine Train in a boat. The meet and greet better have a new building or something because there is not going to be enough room for the ride queue and M&G in the current space.
Im thinking a lot of down time to save money on operating costs. 12 months down time and then 8 months to vomit Frozen all over the existing space. The writing is on the wall, if they were going to spend big bucks on this, they would have put it somewhere else or built from scratch. They are confident that the Frozen army will defend it no matter how sub par it is. Compared to what Tokyo is getting, it will be laughable. I Hope Im wrong tho
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
- Maelstrom has an esoteric at best connection to Norway, and it's not like they are demolishing the pavilion to build an ice castle -
Honestly, considering what was said in the disney blog, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire norway pavilion is changed in some way to fit "Arandelle".
So I dont take the "The Norway pavilion will remain untouched" for granted.

Again, what does being original to opening have to do with anything? And as @wm49rs already said, there has been plenty of displeasure voiced in regards to the World Showcase entertainment cuts.
I wonder if said removal of these shows were to balance the budgets, aka "move the money from these shows to the building of the Frozen thing". So Disney Parks wouldn't really expend a dime in real dollars.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Again, what does being original to opening have to do with anything? And as @wm49rs already said, there has been plenty of displeasure voiced in regards to the World Showcase entertainment cuts.
I wonder if said removal of these shows were to balance the budgets, aka "move the money from these shows to the building of the Frozen thing". So Disney Parks wouldn't really expend a dime in real dollars.
I see where you're coming from… But honestly, how many times did you read that attraction?

Personally, I went with a friend recently and we rode it more times in one day than I have in the past two years combined.

I get where you're coming from in that Epcot's original mission, circa 1982, was to be more of an education and entertainment venue. However the vast majority of Americans and guests as a whole have no interest in being educated. (And they reinforce this, daily. Generally by opening their mouth to reinforce their lack of education. )

They simply want to be entertained…
well, theres 3 other parks that are pure entertainment and very little education.
Leaving epcot for school groups, universities, etc.. would be really appropriate.

If they really wanted to have money.. they should push airlines and travel (and disney cruise line for example) to the world showcase countries... "VISIT NORWAY, THE DISNEY CRUISE LINE TAKES YOU TO THE BEST!".

the future world could be a perfect showcase for big tech and gadget companies to show their prototypes before they reach E3 and other tech forums and sell products directly to clients/visitors. How about having a special pavilion for new inventors? or NASA? or the new groups of Virgin Galactic..etc..? All of them could have information boots to sell their services.

Theres ways to make Epcot profitable.. Disney is imho being completely lazy about it.
a "who cares, put frozen on it to get it to make money" attitude on everything is disturbing.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Has anyone heard of them adding more length to the ride at all? The only real problem I see with the overlay is length of ride. It's pretty short to begin with. I don't really see how they could tell the whole story with the little bit of length it has.
There has been talk of a very minor lengthening of show scenes by going from separate load and unload areas to a combined load/unload area.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Talk to people off the internet. People who don't have Twitter accounts dedicated to Disney, people who don't post about when a hot dog goes up .30 in price. People who don't think about Disney on a daily basis. That is real world to me.

The internet Disney community is their own worst enemy and at this point can't be taken seriously. Everything is THE end of the world.
you're sounding so elitist, it isn't even funny.
"their opinions only valid because I think only X and Y should be taken seriously!"

Almost sounds you're cherrypicking to put weight in your statements.

No because anyone who has an opinion online is obviously a superfan. You have to walk up to completely random homeless people on the street to see how people really feel.
WFtWtov.gif

a++ post, good burn!
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Im thinking a lot of down time to save money on operating costs. 12 months down time and then 8 months to vomit Frozen all over the existing space. The writing is on the wall, if they were going to spend big bucks on this, they would have put it somewhere else or built from scratch. They are confident that the Frozen army will defend it no matter how sub par it is. Compared to what Tokyo is getting, it will be laughable. I Hope Im wrong tho
I hear where you are coming from and I would usually agree, but not in this case. Frozen is their golden goose right now. This summer showed how quickly they could streamline a process when they want to. I don't see them wanting 12 months of down time on this project. If they could finish in 8 months and it would be open by next summer I think they would do it. From what we learned this summer Staggs and probably Iger want a stronger Frozen presence in the parks and they want it now.

Agreed that what is proposed for Japan will be far superior. It pretty much has to be. At its heart Maelstrom is a short ride. There are limitations with how much they can do with it. Building something from scratch which could incorporate a mini-land with a "frozen castle" and several rides (including an e-ticket) plus an elaborate meet and greet and probably a BOG style restaurant would take significantly more time and money.
 

Tigger1988

Well-Known Member
you're sounding so elitist, it isn't even funny.
"their opinions only valid because I think only X and Y should be taken seriously!"

Almost sounds you're cherrypicking to put weight in your statements.
Nice fake quote that is nothing close to what I said.

Like it or not, fact remains if you want actual real world opinions you need to venture beyond the internet and fanboys. Crazy concept, I know. If that offends you...tough.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Maelstrom, like Ellen's Energy Adventure, feels is stuck in the era it was created in--when EPCOT was being transformed from a permanent World's Fair into MK 2.0. It tries to be both educational and a thrill ride, but manages to do neither particularly well.

If the end result of this change-over can at least can be entertaining, I'm all for it. I think the princess invasion of Akershus was far more of an affront to Norwegian culture, and throwing Donald and Jose in Mexico was a more egregious "toon-ing."
Agree! and like I have said many times(as a Mexican), I have no clue what Donald is doing in Mexico.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Magic Kingdom needs another eTicket. Or it would be nice anyways. But Epcot needs an eTicket even more. But animal kingdom needs a boatload of help. And the studios? As much as we hate it… There's two frozen girls may have helped beyond belief until they decide they're going to actually make over the **** park.
Well, Animal Kingdom already as....
what? 5 projects under way? plus the rumor of the Yeti being fixed?
I think right now both EPCOT and DHS are the ones who need the most help ride and theme wise. (but pretty sure they will mask it with frozen events until they finally finish AVATAR and start building Star Wars )

Nice fake quote that is nothing close to what I said.

Like it or not, fact remains if you want actual real world opinions you need to venture beyond the internet and fanboys. Crazy concept, I know. If that offends you...tough.
that "nice fake quote" is the consensus of your replies regarding the people complaining.
You pretty much said the online group posting in facebook or twitter are completely irrelevant.
also considering that Facebook is one of the biggest (more than 500 million?) social sites that has connected thousands (who barely can be declared "fans" or "internet nerds"), makes me find your opinion laughable.

Internet is here to stay and more people will keep searching/sharing more information using it.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Few people are claiming anything of the sort. It definitely died long ago, as spirit said when they began ravaging Future World during the mid 90's was when the death began in earnest. This unfortunate event is just another of many post-destruction insults to what little is left of its legacy. It's where the executives all take a big long on its grave while everyone cheers them on and pays them for it. It happens every now and then, and i'm sure this won't be the last we see of that sort of thing in the future either.

This is a prime example of the hyperbole created when nostalgia, romantic notions of what never was, and the irrationality of not accepting what is clearly in high public demand and shows no signs of slowing down.

* "Characters don't belong in Epcot!" - Characters have been a part of Epcot since it opened, I can show you pictures of me with Space Minnie from the 80's, and pictures of meeting the World Showcase double-decker "Character Bus" that used to bring them out there (I believe Chip and Dale used to run with that crowd).

* There is no "slippery slope" here as is being implied - unless Disney is suddenly going to spend the money and build attractions at more countries, this was it folks. And you know what? If Disney does want to build more attractions - heck, since they build so few, at least they would be building something, LOL. That said, I do not for one second think you have to worry - the rest of WS will remain as stagnant as it has been for the last quarter century for your continued shopping and substance consumption enjoyment.

* The ride everyone is kvetching about replacing was ALREADY seen by many long-time observers as the first shot in the "ruination" of the edutainment aspect of Epcot to begin with. There is nothing educational nor specifically historical about it - a ride largely of darkness with some brief show scenes with references to esoteric Gods and encounters with mythical Trolls, and suddenly an oil rig is involved. At least now folks will know what the bloody heck is going on in the attraction and it will have some cohesiveness.

This is coming from someone who is only a theme park fan because of dark rides, and I've always had a soft spot for Maelstrom in particular because of it's quirky nature - but as I said before, blindfold someone, bring them to the ride vehicle, remove the blindfold, and let them ride - if you asked them when they got off maybe 1 out of a 100 would have said "oh, Norway!" That's why they have that tacky film at the end (which for the past decade has been the only thing anyone has ever discussed about the attraction - more specifically - how to get around watching it).


Even if you don't care about EPCOT or its ruination, fans of the movie should be insulted by this as well for it not getting the proper respect it deserves. As far as i'm concerned, this overlay is a complete fail all around. Look at 74's information regarding what has been pitched for Tokyo and see what could have been done to satisfy fans of the movie in regards to a new appropriately placed Fantasyland ride instead of a cheaply done overlay...

I can't speak for the fans of the film. I'm not one, at least yet (though I do quite like Kristin Bell). Truth be told, haven't even seen it (though I'm thinking I might finally do so this weekend, this has all piqued my interest). Yet, I know all the characters names, the plot, the songs - because it's so popular and has struck such a chord with audiences.

That said, you just told the story of every attraction pretty much ever. Yes, it would be great if Disney built a big castle in Fantasyland and put a great dark ride in there. Oh wait, they did that with TLM - but some folks around these parts consider that a failure.

I don't think this is perfect, nor the best thing that could have happened - the point is, a lot more folks are going to be pleased and excited about a Frozen attraction than ever were about the confusing juxtaposition of elements that is the Maelstrom, as much as I enjoy quirky dark rides. This does nothing to change WS except give it an attraction that folks actually will want to seek out - but like I said, don't worry - the rest of it will remain the stagnant museum with the revolving door of restaurants that it always has been, Frozen isn't going to change that.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Well, Animal Kingdom already as....
what? 5 projects under way? plus the rumor of the Yeti being fixed?
I think right now both EPCOT and DHS are the ones who need the most help ride and theme wise. (but pretty sure they will mask it with frozen events until they finally finish AVATAR and start building Star Wars )


that "nice fake quote" is the consensus of your replies regarding the people complaining.
You pretty much said the online group posting in facebook or twitter are completely irrelevant.
also considering that Facebook is one of the biggest (more than 500 million?) social sites that has connected thousands (who barely can be declared "fans" or "internet nerds"), makes me find your opinion laughable.

Internet is here to stay and more people will keep searching/sharing more information using it.

Oh screw the Yeti.

The yeti had zero impact on guest attendance or the opinions of the average guest.

Should it be fixed? Yes. Should they have built it right in the first place? Of course.

Disney does not get a gold star for fixing something the didn't even do right in the first place.
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
This is a prime example of the hyperbole created when nostalgia, romantic notions of what never was, and the irrationality of not accepting what is clearly in high public demand and shows no signs of slowing down.
* "Characters don't belong in Epcot!" - Characters have been a part of Epcot since it opened, I can show you pictures of me with Space Minnie from the 80's, and pictures of meeting the World Showcase double-decker "Character Bus" that used to bring them out there (I believe Chip and Dale used to run with that crowd).

There were no recognizable Disney characters in World Showcase at all the first few years. The character bus was a late 80s invention--and I would add a lot more shoehorned in than most of the princesses, who are at least semi-true to the mythology of their host country.

Just keeping the debate honest.

* There is no "slippery slope" here as is being implied - unless Disney is suddenly going to spend the money and build attractions at more countries, this was it folks. And you know what? If Disney does want to build more attractions - heck, since they build so few, at least they would be building something, LOL. That said, I do not for one second think you have to worry - the rest of WS will remain as stagnant as it has been for the last quarter century for your continued shopping and substance consumption enjoyment.

I basically agree with this, I think. At EPCOT today, not at all crowded, but the crowds that were there were lining up for two things--booze and princess photos. You could add another 360 movie to Morocco or another C-ticket boatride to Germany, nether is going to drive crowds. A Frozen attraction will.

* The ride everyone is kvetching about replacing was ALREADY seen by many long-time observers as the first shot in the "ruination" of the edutainment aspect of Epcot to begin with. There is nothing educational nor specifically historical about it - a ride largely of darkness with some brief show scenes with references to esoteric Gods and encounters with mythical Trolls, and suddenly an oil rig is involved. At least now folks will know what the bloody heck is going on in the attraction and it will have some cohesiveness.

Agreed 100%. It's neither the fish of the original EPCOT Center nor the fowl of "NuEPCOT". Pays lip service to Norwegian culture with not story or throughline. Scary enough to freak out kids, but not thrilling enough anyone wants to go again. It was a failure from Day 1, and now exists as a fig leaf for fanbois who don't want to admit that World Showcase is the new Pleasure Island, only with crappier hours.
 

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