The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
hpyhnt 1000 said:
Not really denying that. One of the big problems with Maelstrom was its basis on "the spirit" and folklore of Norway rather than the physical country itself. While great conceptually, the final version of the ride ended up being a blur of seemingly disconnected scenes.

Still, Maelstrom's shortcomings don't justify, if you will, the decision to replace the pavilion with Frozen.
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See, I'm just not convinced that is going to happen. The Disney Parks post about this is already being subjected to a massive game of internet-induced telephone (which is even more annoying online than in real life, as one can easily go back to the original source and see what was actually said). I'll go back and quote it:

"The new attraction, which replaces Maelstrom, will take our guests to Arendelle and immerse them in many of their favorite moments and music from the film. The pavilion will also include a royal greeting location where Anna and Elsa can meet our guests. We think these “Frozen” elements are great complements to the Norway Pavilion, which showcases the country and region that inspired the film."

Norway is not going anywhere, they aren't going to rename the place, and the only thing that is going away is one loosely-associated esoteric-at-best ride with snow scenes which is being replaced by another loosely-associated ride with more snow scenes that also happens to be based on a film with huge demand (and the inevitable equal amount of fanboy backlash), and thankfully adding another M&G location for these characters that people are spending incredible amounts of time (3 and 4 hours) waiting in line for.

I'd love if they instead were adding some massive new attraction in Fantasyland, don't get me wrong - this is far from a whack-job idea, it really does make some amount of sense.
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
See, I'm just not convinced that is going to happen. The Disney Parks post about this is already being subjected to a massive game of internet-induced telephone (which is even more annoying online than in real life, as one can easily go back to the original source and see what was actually said). I'll go back and quote it:

"The new attraction, which replaces Maelstrom, will take our guests to Arendelle and immerse them in many of their favorite moments and music from the film. The pavilion will also include a royal greeting location where Anna and Elsa can meet our guests. We think these “Frozen” elements are great complements to the Norway Pavilion, which showcases the country and region that inspired the film."

Norway is not going anywhere, they aren't going to rename the place, and the only thing that is going away is one loosely-associated esoteric-at-best ride with snow scenes which is being replaced by another loosely-associated ride with more snow scenes that also happens to be based on a film with huge demand (and the inevitable equal amount of fanboy backlash), and thankfully adding another M&G location for these characters that people are spending incredible amounts of time (3 and 4 hours) waiting in line for.

I'd love if they instead were adding some massive new attraction in Fantasyland, don't get me wrong - this is far from a whack-job idea, it really does make some amount of sense.
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Frozen takes place in a fictional kingdom called Arendelle INSPRIED BY Norway, not in ACTUAL Norway. That's all I need to take the concept of this makeover making any kind of sense and throw it out the window of a moving car where it is then run over by an 18 wheeler.
 
SirNim

SirNim

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Disney's creative rut stems from them being overly concerned with the recognizable and the known.
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i.e. the Previously-Introduced-Via-Studios-Product.

With the exception of PIRATES there's no leeway for new IP (able to be exploited/synergized Company-wide) to be developed by WDI rather than Studios. Studios is the creator, WDI is the supporter. It seems all IP must originate at Studios rather than WDI (in much the same way that all tax increases MUST by law originate in the U.S. House of Representatives rather than the Senate).

I think a big issue is the lost art of subtlety. (Maybe I should capitalize that? The Lost Art of Subtlety.) Voyage to Arendelle reminds me of recent trend of increasing the broadcast volume of television commercials in a neverending competition to capture the attention of viewers. Dynamics is a dirty word now. It used to be thought that highs and lows coexisted. Now, everybody wants highs without the lows. A low-key boat ride in World Showcase can't exist anymore. It needs to be replaced by a high-key Princess extravaganza.

I think the attraction will actually be executed in a sweet-spot where it's not as in-your-face as we're all suspecting. I think a delicate balance may actually be struck, that preserves some of the charm (and show scenes) of Maelstrom. (Of course, it might be all for naught if Edvard Grieg can't retain any influence whatsoever in the pavilion against the Ymir-sized influence of the Lopezes. Come on, Grieg! Show us what you're made of!)
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Disney's creative rut stems from them being overly concerned with the recognizable and the known. World Showcase, and really the whole park, would be at its creative best if it was actively engaging visitors in what they do not immediately recognize as being related. It's not the most coherent progression of events, but it is a quick smattering of mythology, folklore and then-contemporary industry.
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I get that - and as I've said, I actually quite like the ride for several reasons. But in the case of Maelstrom, you'd have to be a scholar on Norwegian history to get those associations. I honestly think they were lost on most visitors. They were on me, I just liked that it was a cool (if very short) dark-ride. I'm willing to bet (and according to what some have said, Disney's metrics seem to measure that out in guest satisfaction ratings) that more guests leave confused than anything else.

That's also why I don't see this as part of the un-edutainment of Epcot, because, actually, Maelstrom itself was the start of the fantasifcation of it, so to speak. The "old school" Epcot was actually presented most material in very literal terms. That's why all of this hyperbole about theme and fit is really misplaced - and I really do like Maelstrom, I really do, and am sad I won't get down to see it one last time. But on the other hand, I am looking forward to something new, based on an Animated Disney film that isn't frakking Pixar.

So while the concept you describe definitely has merit for storytelling, I just don't think the "old school" Epcot was really the way folks are imagining.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
See, I'm just not convinced that is going to happen. The Disney Parks post about this is already being subjected to a massive game of internet-induced telephone (which is even more annoying online than in real life, as one can easily go back to the original source and see what was actually said). I'll go back and quote it:

"The new attraction, which replaces Maelstrom, will take our guests to Arendelle and immerse them in many of their favorite moments and music from the film. The pavilion will also include a royal greeting location where Anna and Elsa can meet our guests. We think these “Frozen” elements are great complements to the Norway Pavilion, which showcases the country and region that inspired the film."

Norway is not going anywhere, they aren't going to rename the place, and the only thing that is going away is one loosely-associated esoteric-at-best ride with snow scenes which is being replaced by another loosely-associated ride with more snow scenes that also happens to be based on a film with huge demand (and the inevitable equal amount of fanboy backlash), and thankfully adding another M&G location for these characters that people are spending incredible amounts of time (3 and 4 hours) waiting in line for.

I'd love if they instead were adding some massive new attraction in Fantasyland, don't get me wrong - this is far from a whack-job idea, it really does make some amount of sense.
Click to expand...

SirNim said:
i.e. the Previously-Introduced-Via-Studios-Product.

With the exception of PIRATES there's no leeway for new IP (able to be exploited/synergized Company-wide) to be developed by WDI rather than Studios. Studios is the creator, WDI is the supporter. It seems all IP must originate at Studios rather than WDI (in much the same way that all tax increases MUST by law originate in the U.S. House of Representatives rather than the Senate).

I think a big issue is the lost art of subtlety. (Maybe I should capitalize that? The Lost Art of Subtlety.) Voyage to Arendelle reminds me of recent trend of increasing the broadcast volume of television commercials in a neverending competition to capture the attention of viewers. Dynamics is a dirty word now. It used to be thought that highs and lows coexisted. Now, everybody wants highs without the lows. A low-key boat ride in World Showcase can't exist anymore. It needs to be replaced by a high-key Princess extravaganza.

I think the attraction will actually be executed in a sweet-spot where it's not as in-your-face as we're all suspecting. I think a delicate balance may actually be struck, that preserves some of the charm (and show scenes) of Maelstrom. (Of course, it might be all for naught if Edvard Grieg can't retain any influence whatsoever in the pavilion against the Ymir-sized influence of the Lopezes. Come on, Grieg! Show us what you're made of!)
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In the follow up comments by Staggs does not seem to bother with mentioning the aesthetic inspirations from Norway, instead pointing to the characters and music that have people so enamored. Disconnected book report that only works if you know the film is my expectation.
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
In the follow up comments by Staggs does not seem to bother with mentioning the aesthetic inspirations from Norway, instead pointing to the characters and music that have people so enamored. Disconnected book report that only works if you know the film is my expectation.
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So Mermaid part 2?
 
wdisney9000

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
misterID said:
Okay, I've heard this a lot lately, and we're approaching revisionism. I do grant you some of you are newer members, but Maelstrom has always been very divisive. Too short, outdated, nonsensical, loads of missed potential. Those were the arguments. The Polar Bear argument was always pretty entertaining. They just show up out of nowhere. :)
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Newer members? Missed potential? Have you seen FLE? Or 7DMT.
 
misterID

misterID

Well-Known Member
wdisney9000 said:
Newer members? Missed potential? Have you seen FLE? Or 7DMT.
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I have no clue what you're talking about. That quote was talking about there is nothing new, or that there's been any sudden decision to point out the flaws, or dislike of Maelstrom based solely on the Frozen announcement which you alluded. Maelstrom was not whole-heartedly beloved by all WDW fans until now. It was very divisive.
 

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