The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[GoofGoof]

Exactly. And the puppet masters have had a couple months of rumors to activate the trolls. Same playbook. Nothing new under the sun.

Personally I look forward to the change of direction for World Showcase. (A tip of the hat to Maelstrom)
(bolding, italics and underlined because I can)

Oh, and I thought we were told this was nothing but a rushed overlay with a minimal budget. Guess that was disinformation too.

This thing will be done by early 2016. For Disney that is rushed

Putting aside my dislike of the idea in general, I'll wait until it's done to judge the quality of the attraction and the size of the budget. It's yet to be seen if this will look and feel like a cheap overlay or be something much better. Hoping for the latter, preparing myself for the former.

 

[GoofGoof]

No because anyone who has an opinion online is obviously a superfan. You have to walk up to completely random homeless people on the street to see how people really feel.

If you are going to ask a homeless dude on the street his opinion on Maelstrom can you make a video for us? It should be pretty entertaining to watch

 

[71jason]

I did confirm that maelstrom had the worst guest satisfaction metric that they use.

Maelstrom, like Ellen's Energy Adventure, feels is stuck in the era it was created in--when EPCOT was being transformed from a permanent World's Fair into MK 2.0. It tries to be both educational and a thrill ride, but manages to do neither particularly well.

If the end result of this change-over can at least can be entertaining, I'm all for it. I think the princess invasion of Akershus was far more of an affront to Norwegian culture, and throwing Donald and Jose in Mexico was a more egregious "toon-ing."

 

[Bairstow]

Does CNN count as real world? From the main thread:

Meaningless.
With one exception, none of the anti-Frozen/pro-old Epcot comments appeared until after that article was linked from Disboards.

 

[GoofGoof]

Bingo. Exactly my point.

Like I said, for fanboys EVERY announcement is the end of the world. Hard to take any of them seriously when they fall apart so often.

I'm as guilty as the rest of 'em. I really didn't mind Starbucks on Main Street since we desperately needed better coffee, but I'm usually on the obsessed fanboy side. I think I even called Maelstrom a "classic" on some thread when this news first broke. I don't like the idea of toons in World Showcase, but I don't think the general WDW park guest cares one way or the other. They just want to be entertained.

 

[71jason]

That said, Frozen does seem to have really connected to folks in ways that Tangled, Brave, and Princess and the Frog really struggled to do. You've got a nice princess, a naughty princess, and some memorable secondary characters (not many Flounders and Sebastians are bred these days, and Olaf and Kristoff have certainly gotten closer than anything of late).

I've said it before, I'm sure I'll say it again ... the internet is not the real world. Any online opinion is going to be heavily biased, mostly toward an upper-middle class, well-educated, male perspective. Frozen is a once-a-generation phenomenon that's not going anywhere, online fanboi hatred notwithstanding.

Go to any online Disney board, or just online film board, and see the hatred for Cars ... then check out the merch sales and crowds in Radiator Springs.

 

[71jason]

Bingo. Exactly my point.

Like I said, for fanboys EVERY announcement is the end of the world. Hard to take any of them seriously when they fall apart so often.

Completely agree. I went to the wall over the Adventurers Club because it was the pinnacle of Imagineering. Maelstrom? A mediocre dark ride when it opened that's been given a field promotion to E ticket status simply because the park is so devoid of rides.

 

[Mike S]

Completely agree. I went to the wall over the Adventurers Club because it was the pinnacle of Imagineering. Maelstrom? A mediocre dark ride when it opened that's been given a field promotion to E ticket status simply because the park is so devoid of rides.

Whoever said it was an E Ticket?

 

[PhotoDave219]

Bingo. Exactly my point.

Like I said, for fanboys EVERY announcement is the end of the world. Hard to take any of them seriously when they fall apart so often.

They lack perspective. Then again, most of them are 12.

 

[PhotoDave219]

So when should Magic Kingdom finally get a new E Ticket, in your opinion?

After Epcot. After DHS is redone. After DAK gets much needed help.

Makeovers of some C/D tickets in the meantime.

It's not a question of whether it needs it, it's a question of triage. Who needs the most help first?

 

[RSoxNo1]

My mind is a bit scattered right now. But a GMR redo was never more than a blue sky idea (before they later wanted to rip it out for a thrill ride, much like SSE at EPCOT, which was only stopped by the structure's dynamics). As for TT ... I think your date is off considerably ... I know I rode much earlier than 12/98. That sounds months and months off ...

I have cast member previews as 12/11/1998 with soft openings 12/19.

I hope Jim pays you for the PR work! And, yes, the late 80s were a period of absolute explosive growth at WDW.

It was an interesting series of articles that I have frequently posted here and elsewhere. As for BK, of course it's dead. @ParentsOf4 also brought out additional reasons that Jim didn't bring up in the articles as to why the expense of BK wasn't realized initially. That doesn't make the articles any less interesting.

 

[CDavid]

Meaningless.
With one exception, none of the anti-Frozen/pro-old Epcot comments appeared until after that article was linked from Disboards.

When was it first linked to then, and by whom? When I saw the article overnight, and mentioned it in the Frozen thread, the comments already skewed negative.

 

[Mike S]

After Epcot. After DHS is redone. After DAK gets much needed help.

Makeovers of some C/D tickets in the meantime.

It's not a question of whether it needs it, it's a question of triage. Who needs the most help first?

Can't argue with that. The days of expansion in multiple parks at the same time are over. No longer can we get a full land refresh in Magic Kingdom the same year a brand new land and huge E Ticket opens in Hollywood Studios.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Maelstrom, like Ellen's Energy Adventure, feels is stuck in the era it was created in--when EPCOT was being transformed from a permanent World's Fair into MK 2.0. It tries to be both educational and a thrill ride, but manages to do neither particularly well.

I went on Maelstrom again on Monday and agree that it's mostly underwhelming. It's only really popular because of the lack of rides in WS. That and the movie's dated and the indoor queue is among the worst in WDW for lack of theming.

What really struck me was how short it was. No amount of any makeover (Frozen on not) will ever really change that much unless they truly expand the building.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Can't argue with that. The days of expansion in multiple parks at the same time are over. No longer can we get a full land refresh in Magic Kingdom the same year a brand new land and huge E Ticket opens in Hollywood Studios.

Magic Kingdom needs another eTicket. Or it would be nice anyways. But Epcot needs an eTicket even more. But animal kingdom needs a boatload of help. And the studios? As much as we hate it… There's two frozen girls may have helped beyond belief until they decide they're going to actually make over the damn park.

 

[misterID]

I went on Maelstrom again on Monday and agree that it's mostly underwhelming. It's only really popular because of the lack of rides in WS. That and the movie's dated and the indoor queue is among the worst in WDW for lack of theming.

What really struck me was how short it was. No amount of any makeover (Frozen on not) will ever really change that much unless they truly expand the building.

Absolutely. These are my thoughts exactly. The idea of Maelstrom is WAY better than the actual ride. I don't see how people are viewing this like it's a classic. It's like Joe Rohde came up with an awesome idea and someone tore off a quarter of the plans, threw away the rest, and told him to build that and add some polar bears and an oil rig and drop the guests off in a tourist film. Seriously, the unload little village is the best theming in that entire building.

If they do reverse the track it could possibly make it longer by one show scene?? Anyway, those lines are going to be insane. But hopefully it makes more sense than the ride that's there now. Which isn't too difficult.

Magic Kingdom needs another eTicket. Or it would be nice anyways. But Epcot needs an eTicket even more. But animal kingdom needs a boatload of help. And the studios? As much as we hate it… There's two frozen girls may have helped beyond belief until they decide they're going to actually make over the **** park.

A thousand yes's. Avatarland should just be part of AK's expansion. I mentioned this before, but there's no other park on property that if one of the major attractions goes down the park becomes a chaotic mess with people looking for something to ride and all converging in the same spot. And AK is not a park that can handle that kind of congestion.

FutureWorld has ample room for expansion for a wonderful E-ticket. Excluding even the obvious WOL building, which seems to be TDO's favorite pavilion on property. UOE, Imagination and bunch of empty plots in WS.

 

[flynnibus]

It's interesting how we never really heard of Malestrom being "beloved" until the Frozen rumors began. People only seem to care because it's from "old" EPCOT, not because it's a quality attraction. Was easily one of the worst attractions in WDW, bested only by Stitch imo.

Nice twist...

But what you are really reading is that replacing it with something that goes against the concept of ws is a bad idea - not that maelstrom is now loved.

Replace maelstrom with a proper ride for Norway if it has such low marks

 

[Lee]

But what you are really reading is that replacing it with something that goes against the concept of ws is a bad idea - not that maelstrom is now loved.

Replace maelstrom with a proper ride for Norway if it has such low marks

Nailed it.

My sentiments exactly.

I don't love Maelstrom. It's quaint...sorta charming, but not what I would call "classic."

But 'toons in World Showcase....no thank you.
Not now, not ever. Horrible idea.

 

[stevehousse]

We did that for you when that all came down. Most of us were not happy. I have empathy for your pain and that of others. We did have a wake and mourn their loss for Epcot, the fans and the players personally.

I don't believe the culture of the WS is changed by replacing entertainment with other entertainment will change the theming of the WS any more than if they replaced illuminations music for new music or changed up the fireworks.

Changing a mock church, or replacing cultural Vikings with princesses and turning Norway into a Princess Meet and Greet along with the restaurant, it is no longer about culture or Norway it is about a movie promotion. My wonder is behind the scene is what the real Norway is having to say about how Disney is representing their country with Princessland and Frozen. What the International Program native CMs from Norway think of their countries culture being depicted as Frozen. I do not find entertainment changes in any of the parks having the impact of the changing the imagineering of a themed area and wedging it into an area that is not themed for that. I find it a break in theming. I felt the same way when they found it fitting to change Countdown to Extinction to Dinosaurs. That too was a limited time grab and most children are unaware of that cartoon this decade.

And I do have empathy for your loss of these entertainers. They obviously meant a great deal to you, that is never easy to move on from. With any luck they will not be lost for good in the Orlando area, hopefully they will resurface in a different venue or in a competing park.

The country of Norway is eating up all the free promotion from the movie and the added tourism. I honestly don't think they mind one bit!

owl city seems to be "in" movie wise.
they made a lot of hits into animated movies.

There was one song from Wreck it Ralph, another in "Escape from Planet Earth".. and 2 other movies names that escape my brain right now...

I really like the new parade music. I did too think the Owl City music was an odd choice, but it does fit well. I really wished they used the parade finale music (paint the night) more throughout the parade. Lovin it though and can't wait to see it in DL next year!

Go talk to some people face to face today. Someone you know who has gone to Disney before but isn't obsessed. Give it a shot and see the reaction they have when asked about Malestrom.

The one Disney fan at my work besides me didn't even know what ride I was talking about! She proceeded to tell me she usually never spends too much time in epcots world showcase...but loves everywhere else in wdw.

 

[GoofGoof]

Nice twist...

But what you are really reading is that replacing it with something that goes against the concept of ws is a bad idea - not that maelstrom is now loved.

Replace maelstrom with a proper ride for Norway if it has such low marks

Yes. That's my exact feelings. Keep Norway as Norway. Put Frozen somewhere else. You can still give Frozen it's just do. An updated Maelstrom would be a bonus. This all makes too much sense.