The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
The music just wasn't very cohesive and I don't get why they chose an Owl City song as the main song of the parade
owl city seems to be "in" movie wise.
they made a lot of hits into animated movies.

There was one song from Wreck it Ralph, another in "Escape from Planet Earth".. and 2 other movies names that escape my brain right now...
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
No one was interested in Frozen at WDPR except for Steve Davison, who made it the basis of World of Color Winter Dreams. The rest of the division dismissed it almost wholesale. If what Staggs said were true, then all this Frozen crap would have started day and date in November 2013, instead of waiting until June 2014 to do a **** thing about it.

That's a brilliant point, and worth repeating.

I wonder how they will tout the return of Olaf in World of Color Winter Dreams this November? Last year the show debuted before Frozen had even opened in theaters and I remember all of us on the Disneyland sub-forum talking about "Who is this snowman guy?". Now he's famous, and the movie is a pop culture phenomenon. It should be interesting to see how Disney reminds us all of that a year later when World of Color Winter Dreams opens for its second season. :rolleyes:
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
It's becoming increasingly clear that what's good and what's bad here is decided at random. Maybe the idea's just been warming on some (pun absolutely not intended..), but to me this is the kind of news that reads like a bad 'Al Lutz April Fools'...and now is being shrugged off, like y'all just don't care anymore.
I expressed my disappointment in the original thread about this. We all got it out of our system in May when the news first broke. I don't think it's warming on people or being shrugged off. Unless you flat out didn't believe the reports from just about anyone who could be considered an insider there is nothing new to be "upset" over. No point rehashing what we all said back in May.
It remains, a knee-jerk reaction to a franchise that doesn't make sense in Epcot (I won't even call it center). Anyone who cares about traditional theme park values should give a (DARN!). Not to mention....a major new area/attraction in 2018 demonstrates that they're not afraid of it losing significance, so there's really no excuse. They're just being cheap.
I agree. Although I think it's a combination of being cheap, lazy and a lack of creative vision at the top. Someone (Iger, Staggs) said "how can we get Frozen in the parks ASAP". They came up with the summer DHS event but the best they could muster up is "Frozen is inspired by Norway, Norway already has a ride, let's repurpose it". I think if they let the creative process work itself through someone at WDI could have come up with a larger scale, more appropriate attraction (either in MK or DHS). When that attraction opens in Japan we will all have a new round of "why did we get the poor man's version in EPCOT?"
 

Tigger1988

Well-Known Member
I understand the gist of your major points, and I cannot argue against them with anywhere near the eloquence with which you make your case. In the larger scheme of things, at the end absolutely nothing matters aside from the people and loved ones in our lives, and where we and they will spend eternity after death. All of our wordly possessions and even life's accomplishments amount to little more than a hill of beans in comparison. That said, everyone needs a diversion - a hobby or something of specific personal interest which holds special meaning in our everyday, sometimes mundane lives.

Collecting stamps, golf, gardening, theme parks (travel), or a myriad of other activities aren't what ultimately matters, but they do serve to make our days far more pleasant, enjoyable, and often rewarding. Without question, people tend to be emotionally invested in a specific interest; Thus, we care about the Disney theme parks, it matters to us what happens to them, and we certainly have (often strongly, sincerely held) opinions on the matter. We don't need expert knowledge of design (or business, etc.) to make a valid (if laypersons) argument about theme parks. Indeed, after sometimes years of observing and following the industry, at least some degree of 'expert' knowledge can be demonstrated in posts by several members on these boards.

Disney may place remarkably little weight on the opinions, desires, and requests of its (long-time) customers, but in no way does that suggest we should not make our voices heard. We should never be so ambivalent or irresolute about anything in life; Actually, that is in large part what is wrong in this nation. If something bothers you, upsets you, or just isn't to your liking or satisfaction - then by all means say something. You don't just sit back and let things happen. There is nothing wrong with taking a stand, even if it is on a topic which, in the end, isn't what really matters in life. We must keep our priorities straight, to be certain, but we can enjoy the Disney theme parks (in a mentally healthy manner) as part of a richer, more fulfilled life.



Sarcasm and hyperbole aside, the "bar" by which we judge Disney in 2014 may well be difficult to define, but we can illustrate with sold, concrete evidence and examples a very real decline in Disney's own standards over the intervening years. It isn't just nostalgia or a longing for the past which clouds our judgement; The bar has literally been set lower than it once was.



You seldom literally hear of Space Mountain being so 'beloved' either, but that is because Space Mountain isn't on the endangered species list. If a (reliable) rumor came to light about it being bulldozed, then you most certainly would, just as you do for Maelstrom or the Carousel of Progress.

There is also a valid point about what is replacing Maelstrom, and its thematic inappropriateness for World Showcase. You won't see the same concerns over removing Indy or LMA, partly due to the attractions themselves, but party due to what (presumably Star Wars) will take their place.



Whether we agree or not, arguing that something should be preserved purely for nostalgic reasons is a legitimate viewpoint. In the case of Maelstrom, however, there is far more to it than just nostalgia.
Space Mountain is an iconic ride, known by people who have never even traveled to WDW or DL. That comparison is...pretty far off.

The general public will not care about Malestrom and everyone I've talked to about this outside of the fandom says the ride should've been gone years ago. Remove Space Mountain and people will actually care in the real world.
 

cw1982

Well-Known Member
Space Mountain is an iconic ride, known by people who have never even traveled to WDW or DL. That comparison is...pretty far off.

The general public will not care about Malestrom and everyone I've talked to about this outside of the fandom says the ride should've been gone years ago. Remove Space Mountain and people will actually care in the real world.

Have you looked at the comments on Twitter or on the actual post on Facebook? The only place where there is proportionately any positive feedback being posted "in the real world" is on the Disney Parks Blog, where Disney gets to moderate posts more closely. People are posting negative comments on Facebook so quickly that anyone trying to filter responses wouldn't be able to keep up. When I saw it, there were about 30 negative comments for every one positive, and there were thousands of comments there. This was last night.
 

Tigger1988

Well-Known Member
Have you looked at the comments on Twitter or on the actual post on Facebook? The only place where there is proportionately any positive feedback being posted "in the real world" is on the Disney Parks Blog, where Disney gets to moderate posts more closely. People are posting negative comments on Facebook so quickly that anyone trying to filter responses wouldn't be able to keep up. When I saw it, there were about 30 negative comments for every one positive, and there were thousands of comments there. This was last night.
Talk to people off the internet. People who don't have Twitter accounts dedicated to Disney, people who don't post about when a hot dog goes up .30 in price. People who don't think about Disney on a daily basis. That is real world to me.

The internet Disney community is their own worst enemy and at this point can't be taken seriously. Everything is THE end of the world.
 

cw1982

Well-Known Member
Talk to people off the internet. People who don't have Twitter accounts dedicated to Disney, people who don't post about when a hot dog goes up .30 in price. People who don't think about Disney on a daily basis. That is real world to me.

The internet Disney community is their own worst enemy and at this point can't be taken seriously. Everything is THE end of the world.

So, everyone who "likes" Disney on Facebook doesn't have a valid opinion just because their comments are on Disney's Facebook page? I would think many people from various walks of life and varying degrees of interest in the parks would "like" the page, not just the die hard fanbois.
 

Tigger1988

Well-Known Member
So, everyone who "likes" Disney on Facebook doesn't have a valid opinion just because their comments are on Disney's Facebook page? I would think many people from various walks of life and varying degrees of interest in the parks would "like" the page, not just the die hard fanbois.
Go talk to some people face to face today. Someone you know who has gone to Disney before but isn't obsessed. Give it a shot and see the reaction they have when asked about Malestrom.
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Go talk to some people face to face today. Someone you know who has gone to Disney before but isn't obsessed. Give it a shot and see the reaction they have when asked about Malestrom.
i agree..although I may not like this move by Disney WS will be packed for this so it will be a good financial decision....again frozen should be in DHS or MK before EPCOT but it is what it is
 

OSUgirl77

Well-Known Member
Talk to people off the internet. People who don't have Twitter accounts dedicated to Disney, people who don't post about when a hot dog goes up .30 in price. People who don't think about Disney on a daily basis. That is real world to me.
Have to agree with you here. If you look at the few non-Disney sites that covered the announcement as well, comments were overwhelmingly positive. They have no idea what the original purpose of WS was, nor do they care. They are just excited to see more Anna and Elsa.
 
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cw1982

Well-Known Member
Go talk to some people face to face today. Someone you know who has gone to Disney before but isn't obsessed. Give it a shot and see the reaction they have when asked about Malestrom.

Actually, I have done that already ;)

Maybe it's just my group of friends, but many shared the same sentiments seen on these boards and in the Facebook post. They are fine with replacing Maelstrom with something better that still represents Norwegian culture, and they like the idea of a Frozen ride, but when I mentioned the (then) rumor, they didn't think the location of the ride made sense.

And no, the people I talked to are not fanbois. They don't even visit any kind of Disney forum.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
Have you looked at the comments on Twitter or on the actual post on Facebook? The only place where there is proportionately any positive feedback being posted "in the real world" is on the Disney Parks Blog,

I think when he means "real world" he means the average park-going American tourist, not WDW-fixated internet fans.

There is no "real world" reaction to the announcement (or lack thereof) yet because no one who isn't as Disney-obsessed as we are would have even gotten wind of this yet.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
In honesty, not really. It seems spectacular until you realise they have put everything into the Tree and M&G's and not enough on a real E-ticket to blow us away. I think EE was the last real one that did it for me in AK. Dinosaur is a sad shadow of it's former self... Heck, my daughter didn't even know the dinosaur we were stealing was from a movie until I pointed it out to her one trip. The Carnival has always been out of place and Walt would be massively angry at it. Themed right or not. Kali has show effects that don't work anymore and guests are none the wiser. Nor do they get the story being told. They just like getting wet. KS feels weird without the poachers around anymore. Though, I don't miss Ms Jobson.

They'd rather wow you with effects now in the parks then give you a real experience. Give you something to talk about when you get home. When I visited EPCOT Centre when I was young, and was there opening day for MGM Studios there was something special. The experience I got was real and connected with me. The current management has been doing this so much. And cut backs are starting to have a real effect in the parks. I was laid off last year from a vital department that has been shrinking more and more. I wish I could go into details on all the things I noticed in the offices. But, that's a brick wall around here we have all been yelling at.

When I worked the Bone Yard as my first job ever at Disney, I remember the biggest thing I was told was to give the guests a real experience. That when they were in the bone yard, they were in a desert location helping dig up dinos. I recently asked a CM at the Bone Yard what they story of the BY was and all they could tell me was that it was a play spot for the kids. Argh!

As long as the Disney management can get away with cheapening effects, cheapening the experience, and getting the most out of your wallet then they will. They need a real CEO who gives a darn to get in there and not lessen people's experiences. Argh. Rant over.


I agree that it would be ideal if the next CEO had the luxury of adding lost magic back to the parks. Quite a challange with increasing crowds. I notice many lament losing the past but offer few answers to the dilemma. I have been making the point for years.

Iger did and is doing what had to be done to give the company a future. And any chance of returning to the WDW that everyone remembers from their past will be due to the foundation he has built. IMO.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
I think when he means "real world" he means the average park-going American tourist, not WDW-fixated internet fans.

There is no "real world" reaction to the announcement (or lack thereof) yet because no one who isn't as Disney-obsessed as we are would have even gotten wind of this yet.

Exactly. And the puppet masters have had a couple months of rumors to activate the trolls. Same playbook. Nothing new under the sun. :facepalm:

Personally I look forward to the change of direction for World Showcase. (A tip of the hat to Maelstrom) ;)
(bolding, italics and underlined because I can) :happy:

Oh, and I thought we were told this was nothing but a rushed overlay with a minimal budget. Guess that was disinformation too. :cautious:
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Have you looked at the comments on Twitter or on the actual post on Facebook? The only place where there is proportionately any positive feedback being posted "in the real world" is on the Disney Parks Blog, where Disney gets to moderate posts more closely. People are posting negative comments on Facebook so quickly that anyone trying to filter responses wouldn't be able to keep up. When I saw it, there were about 30 negative comments for every one positive, and there were thousands of comments there. This was last night.
Not shocking. When they announced that Starbucks would be served at the Main Street Bakery there was a similar backlash. The WDW fan community is generally very vocal whenever something is removed or changed. We are still complaining about Horizons and 20,000 Leagues closing years ago.

Go talk to some people face to face today. Someone you know who has gone to Disney before but isn't obsessed. Give it a shot and see the reaction they have when asked about Malestrom.

The vast majority of people who have been to WDW but aren't members of online Disney communities would have no clue what a Maelstrom is. If you explained it was the boat ride in Norway probably a bunch would still have no clue what you are talking about. For the fanboy community it's a much bigger deal than the greater population. Someone earlier in this thread (or maybe it was in the other thread) posted that Maelstrom got poor guest survey responses and wasn't exactly popular. Imagine if they closed a popular ride what the online reaction would be.
 

Tigger1988

Well-Known Member
The vast majority of people who have been to WDW but aren't members of online Disney communities would have no clue what a Maelstrom is. If you explained it was the boat ride in Norway probably a bunch would still have no clue what you are talking about. For the fanboy community it's a much bigger deal than the greater population. Someone earlier in this thread (or maybe it was in the other thread) posted that Maelstrom got poor guest survey responses and wasn't exactly popular. Imagine if they closed a popular ride what the online reaction would be.
Bingo. Exactly my point.

Like I said, for fanboys EVERY announcement is the end of the world. Hard to take any of them seriously when they fall apart so often.
 

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