The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[AEfx]

The hardcore Epcot fanbois who don't realize that Norway is not an original pavilion. People who scream "OMG Epcot is ruined" and so forth

Yeah, I have to say - the hyperbole around this - while I may agree with the general sentiment - is a bit much.

Today isn't the day Epcot died - that happened long ago, if one wants to look at it from that perspective. And I've actually heard folks cite the addition of Maelstrom itself as one of the first signs of the "edutainment" aspect of Epcot being deteriorated, and they have a point - aside from that insipid little film tacked on to the end, which we have joked about and exchanged tips about how to avoid for years, the actual ride has very little to do with Norway. Trolls and oil rigs?

Don't get me wrong, I like Maelstrom - I actually have a specific fondness for it because it opened between my two childhood trips to WDW, and I still have that "new" excitement over it, odd as it may sound. And the entire reason I am a fan of the Disney parks is because of the dark rides - so I really am not coming from a flippant place here when I say, I really don't understand how all of a sudden the heart is being torn out of Norway because of it as the ride on it's own had very little of "Norway" to begin with.

Finally, I have to say - I really find the park fan Frozen-backlash really surprising in general. It wasn't until I started reading here that I had any indication that it was so reviled. The most successful animated film of all time, made in house by Walt Disney Animation (it's not even Pixar!), of a project that had been looked at for development as far back as when Walt himself was in post-production of Snow White - we kvetched and moaned and complained at the lack of Frozen, and suddenly we are dead set against it and it's cutting the head off of Epcot and forever ruining the place.

I get it - I do - we would all much rather have a brand new Frozen attraction (though, judging from the posts about it - there is no way to please a lot of folks in general over it because everyone seems to think it belongs in a different place). But folks are pulling from all over the map here as to why this is so terrible, and while I get that folks are going to feel however they do - which is totally valid - a lot of the stuff I'm reading, in fact, most of it - just makes me think "THIS is what is the tipping point with Epcot?" and "What did Elsa ever do to you?" LOL.

If this were some detailed scenic dark ride through the history of Norway, with complex show scenes and more than just really broad nods, etc., and was suddenly being replaced - I'd get it more. But what we have here is a quirky fantasy-based dark ride with wisps of inspiration from Norway being replaced by a fantasy-based dark ride with wisps of inspiration from Norway.

My only real concern is capacity - though on the bright side, I'm betting this gets us at least partially out of that "WS doesn't open until 11AM" BS - since Norway is only the second country in, it doesn't buy us much, but they are going to have to open up Mexico and Norway at least at opening now.

 

[GoofGoof]

It's interesting how we never really heard of Malestrom being "beloved" until the Frozen rumors began. People only seem to care because it's from "old" EPCOT, not because it's a quality attraction. Was easily one of the worst attractions in WDW, bested only by Stitch imo.

You are probably right in general.

I personally liked the ride. I like boat rides more than the average person. It's a little short, but I still liked it a lot. It isn't all that popular so I do think the reaction is a bit overblown.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Anyone catch Staggs answering questions on that announcement? Someone showed concern that Norway would be lost in the pavilion and he basically said we thing this is what guests want..

I really would love to verbally spar with that guy...

Staggs wrote the blog post himself.

 

[GoofGoof]

Staggs wrote the blog post himself.

His little picture is there and everything.

I actually believe him in this case. He really does believe that most guests want this. He is probably right too.

 

[PeterAlt]

Here's the problem. Those of us that are long time Disney visitors and fans have our eyes constantly on some non-definable "bar" that Disney no longer lives up too. So Stacy, in her over the top perkiness, to us, is a lying corporate mouthpiece that fails to tell the truth and does not mention the gloom and doom that we see.

To us, she should be dressed in black, with a constant frown. When showing off Mission: Space, for example, her lines should be "And here we have Mission: Space, a mediocre simulator ride that has killed a few people and replaced the forever loved "Horizon" Pavilion." A travesty really! Nothing will ever be as good as Horizon was.

Over here we have Expedition Everest. This highly touted ride is a total failure. Check closely and you will see a Yeti that hasn't moved since the last ice age and, in spite of it being a kinda fun ride, should be spat upon as nothing but fail, fail and more fail.

Oh, yea... let's not forget that other attraction that failed to live up to our wants and desired, the now famous for it's mediocrity, Seven Dwarfs Mine Train. It's too short, it doesn't give us enough AA's, nobody goes on it because the lines are too long. Etc., you get the drift of our disgust, I'm sure.

Many have the idea that truth in advertising means that you, as a company, hire spokesperson to tell the public all about your weak points and downplay the upside. Point out things that have little or no impact on how the general public enjoys what they experience, because, it doesn't live up to our 40 year old, real or imagined, standards and basically tell everyone that they shouldn't bother coming to the parks, because, it's nothing but junk. A Stacy sitting on the curb, wringing her hands in grief and sorrow. How can anyone be so upbeat anyway and still function in life.

Spoiler

Yes, the preceding was sarcasm, but sarcasm based on actual statements made by posters on this and other Boards.

Ok, but how do you really feel?

 

[AEfx]

Anyone catch Staggs answering questions on that announcement? Someone showed concern that Norway would be lost in the pavilion and he basically said we thing this is what guests want..

I really would love to verbally spar with that guy...

If it was on this topic, you'd lose - because he's absolutely correct.

 

[PhotoDave219]

His little picture is there and everything.

I actually believe him in this case. He really does believe that most guests want this. He is probably right too.

My only issue is that they're changing to frozen. Lord knows if it will still have any popularity coming to 2016.

But where was this righteous indignation when we announce the end of the world showcase players?

 

[wm49rs]

My only issue is that they're changing to frozen. Lord knows if it will still have any popularity coming to 2016.

But where was this righteous indignation when we announce the end of the world showcase players?

Here....

 

[asianway]

Here's the problem. Those of us that are long time Disney visitors and fans have our eyes constantly on some non-definable "bar" that Disney no longer lives up too. So Stacy, in her over the top perkiness, to us, is a lying corporate mouthpiece that fails to tell the truth and does not mention the gloom and doom that we see.

To us, she should be dressed in black, with a constant frown. When showing off Mission: Space, for example, her lines should be "And here we have Mission: Space, a mediocre simulator ride that has killed a few people and replaced the forever loved "Horizon" Pavilion." A travesty really! Nothing will ever be as good as Horizon was.

Over here we have Expedition Everest. This highly touted ride is a total failure. Check closely and you will see a Yeti that hasn't moved since the last ice age and, in spite of it being a kinda fun ride, should be spat upon as nothing but fail, fail and more fail.

Oh, yea... let's not forget that other attraction that failed to live up to our wants and desired, the now famous for it's mediocrity, Seven Dwarfs Mine Train. It's too short, it doesn't give us enough AA's, nobody goes on it because the lines are too long. Etc., you get the drift of our disgust, I'm sure.

Many have the idea that truth in advertising means that you, as a company, hire spokesperson to tell the public all about your weak points and downplay the upside. Point out things that have little or no impact on how the general public enjoys what they experience, because, it doesn't live up to our 40 year old, real or imagined, standards and basically tell everyone that they shouldn't bother coming to the parks, because, it's nothing but junk. A Stacy sitting on the curb, wringing her hands in grief and sorrow. How can anyone be so upbeat anyway and still function in life.

Spoiler

Yes, the preceding was sarcasm, but sarcasm based on actual statements made by posters on this and other Boards.

I think they should go from young perky female to an older bearded curmudgeon gentleman if they were going to take that approach. I'd watch!

 

[Gabe1]

Theme parks are fun to visit. I've been to WDW dozens of times, worked there as a CM for a short time, etc. Admittedly, I haven't set foot in the parks since 2011. So I've spent my fair share of time in the parks over the years. This isn't directed at anyone in particular.

That said, I just don't get the outcry of the fan community. I wouldn't shed a tear if any attraction in any park was closed. You could replace Spaceship Earth with a hot dog stand, and I wouldn't protest it.

A letter-writing campaign to protest the closure of Maelstrom? My honest response to that wouldn't get past the filter here. I think of the news this week -- a presidential speech on yet more U.S. military involvement in the Middle East, the anniversary of 9/11, etc. -- and I just shake my head at the theme park fan community.

This fan community is an honest-to-God dissertation and publishable manuscript for some aspiring psychology graduate student somewhere.

All of the objections to Frozen/Maelstrom -- Frozen "breaks the theme" of World Showcase, Maelstrom is a "great ride" that we're losing, etc. -- it's just so over-the-top and petty. I can understand if you're in the design industry that you might have a strong opinion about this change. It's no different than anyone else having an opinion about their professional industry.

Most of the of the people in the fan community, however, aren't part of that industry. In the words of Oingo Boingo, they're "on the outside looking in." I can't imagine caring so much about the purity of Epcot's theme or the integrity of World Showcase that I would contact WDW to register my complaint that Maelstrom is going away. Anyone typing "the purity of Epcot's theme" should be harshly fined. (I'll include myself in that.)

I think this is the first time I've posted anything on Frozen/Maelstrom, but seeing all the breathless complaining today just makes me think.

Earlier this week, Spirit was talking about the final stages of a relative's illness. I saw someone today write that they wish Disney had given them more advance notice so that they could visit and "say goodbye to Maelstrom." Someday, you would hope, the fan community would realize all of these rides (and indeed, the parks, too!) will all eventually be shuttered... The people are what matter. And isn't that supposed to be the "theme" of Epcot?

Actually this post would be an excellent intro to a psychology dissertation. The inner working of someone that can twist emotions of people with manipulation of unrelated sickness and acts of terrorism to support ones indifference to a theme park. It isn't a healthy or sound direction to divert any conversation.

I for one still am angry at the crazy bomber dude but I choose not to let that define who I am or how I choose to live my life. I will not let terrorists win by making me into an indifferent individual. And as many know here my family is dealing with a close relative that has slowly left her mind behind. It is sad. But would she want us all to loose interest in life and interests because hers is coming to a close?

I don't appreciate anyone that tries to manipulate a conversation by inserting manipulative slop into a discussion. We are here to have a bit of fun. Yes we can get intense but we move on.....

 

[asianway]

Staggs wrote the blog post himself.

Positive? I'm sure he signed off but it read to me like it was wordsmithed over the last month by everyone in the combined PR & legal departments

 

[PeterAlt]

I hate to break the news to everyone but the old EC is dead. It died a long time ago. We pathetic hardcore WDW fans are clinging on to remnants of a time when EC was something different of a bygone era. It will never be the way it was. We must embrace the future and let it transition into something else other than a what is today - sad reminder of those days in ghetto dilapidated form.

 

[AEfx]

To us, she should be dressed in black, with a constant frown. When showing off Mission: Space, for example, her lines should be "And here we have Mission: Space, a mediocre simulator ride that has killed a few people and replaced the forever loved "Horizon" Pavilion." A travesty really! Nothing will ever be as good as Horizon was.

I have never seen such a clear example of blaming the messenger in my entire life.

In any case, if they are going to append that warning to M:S, they also will have to do the same for Everest, Dinosaur, RnR, ToT, PoC, the Carousel, Space Mountain, the wave pool at TL, and both Fort Wilderness and Pop Century resort pools, as similar deaths occured to guests either on or exiting those attractions, as well.

(And I cannot believe you made me defend the total piece of garbage known as M:S - but yes, that's how insane what you are saying sounds that I'm forced to.)

 

[Smiddimizer]

I have never seen such a clear example of blaming the messenger in my entire life.

In any case, if they are going to append that warning to M:S, they also will have to do the same for Everest, Dinosaur, RnR, ToT, PoC, the Carousel, Space Mountain, the wave pool at TL, and both Fort Wilderness and Pop Century resort pools, as similar deaths occured to guests either on or exiting those attractions, as well.

(And I cannot believe you made me defend the total piece of garbage known as M:S - but yes, that's how insane what you are saying sounds that I'm forced to.)

Psst...I think it was sarcasm

 

[AEfx]

Psst...I think it was sarcasm

With all the crazy going on 'round here - you'll have to forgive me for it woooshing straight over my head.

 

[AEfx]

My only issue is that they're changing to frozen. Lord knows if it will still have any popularity coming to 2016.

But where was this righteous indignation when we announce the end of the world showcase players?

I think Frozen has taken it's place on the pantheon of Disney classics. It is true that just because it's the highest grossing animated film of all time doesn't mean anything as to it's quality (one only need to look toward Avaturd for the resounding antidote to that thought - if it wasn't for Disney building an attraction, no one would know what the heck I was talking about if I mentioned Avatar - they'd be like "Isn't that a Nickelodeon property? Get to the Universal board with that!").

That said, Frozen does seem to have really connected to folks in ways that Tangled, Brave, and Princess and the Frog really struggled to do. You've got a nice princess, a naughty princess, and some memorable secondary characters (not many Flounders and Sebastians are bred these days, and Olaf and Kristoff have certainly gotten closer than anything of late).

But you are right - who knows - we could end up here in five years (who am I kidding, at least 10-15, knowing how slowly Disney moves) having these very same discussions about the new film overlay which is taking over the beloved Arendelle and the new kids all screaming, "How can they take Frozen out of Norway?? Arendelle is the perfect fit! This is the end of Epcot!"

 

[GoofGoof]

My only issue is that they're changing to frozen. Lord knows if it will still have any popularity coming to 2016.

But where was this righteous indignation when we announce the end of the world showcase players?

It may not have the enormous buzz it has now, but it will still be going strong. The Broadway show will be ramped up and there has been talk of a sequel. Even if the show and sequel don't happen it still has Princesses and popular songs. LM just got a ride 25 years later so this will be lightning fast. It could be an issue if Disney pulls a Who Wants to Be A Millionaire and completely over kills the thing.

No clue on your 2nd point. Maybe the guy who starts these petitions was on on vacation last week when the announcement came out. Either that or he really likes Lumberjacks

 

[PhotoDave219]

Positive? I'm sure he signed off but it read to me like it was wordsmithed over the last month by everyone in the combined PR & legal departments

Everything goes by legal. You know that. lol.

 

[Smiddimizer]

It's becoming increasingly clear that what's good and what's bad here is decided at random. Maybe the idea's just been warming on some (pun absolutely not intended..), but to me this is the kind of news that reads like a bad 'Al Lutz April Fools'...and now is being shrugged off, like y'all just don't care anymore.

Sure I can understand. This is Disney, crazies have been going since before they were born, Maelstrom was a rite of special passage for them, and now they're throwing ten fits because they can't get ripped on that premium queue line dank ever again...or however they choose to cherish the ride.

But I think we forget that this is all purely recreational, plus people on the web can sound a lot more emotional than they really are. Doesn't mean we're not aware that this is a microcosm of a world with much bigger problems.

It remains, a knee-jerk reaction to a franchise that doesn't make sense in Epcot (I won't even call it center). Anyone who cares about traditional theme park values should give a (DARN!). Not to mention....a major new area/attraction in 2018 demonstrates that they're not afraid of it losing significance, so there's really no excuse. They're just being cheap.

 

[AEfx]

Everything goes by legal. You know that. lol.

That's why I am actually surprised he replied to folks. Actually, this is a day full of "I hate to say it but I'd be lying if I didn't..." - because I actually am kind of impressed he is replying at all, even if folks don't like what he is saying - and considering the numbers that Frozen is doing all over the map - from the demand for merchandise, record home video sales, increase in attendance at DHS due to some characters on a stick - what he has said is really true - there certainly is a lot of demand. I mean, even the TV special - when was the last time we had a prime time network Disney TV special, period, let alone one for a film that has been on home video for six months already).