The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[Lee]

So......

Even though this post is a bit awkward , since we are not gonna solve the problem of child abuse on a Disney Fan forum maybe we can instead have the bombshell news and discuss that and how it relates to Disney?

Not sure bombshell is the word I'd use...
It's good info, for sure, but calling it a bombshell is setting unreasonable expectations.

The bigger impact will be at TDO. This will be rampant over there:

While here, a lot of this:

 

[Cesar R M]

So let's look at this. What's look at it from the worldview and show exactly how widespread a problem this is through society and how it reaches every part of society.

This isn't simply a Disney problem, this isn't simply a universal problem, it's not just the Catholic Church, and it's simply not just the Boy Scouts. It's a widespread problem through all segments of American society and it cannot be tolerated, accepted or swept under the rug.

considering the huge raids worldwide, I dont think its something exclusively of the United States, but rather most of the West (that we know). There could be a big number of abusers worldwide.. but there is no information of them due of shoddy police jobs, null news sources/investigators digging, etc..

 

[PhotoDave219]

Not to digress from discussing the CNN report, but a bit of action went down somewhat quietly today that I think @WDW1974 might like to hear.

An individual (who will remain unnamed due to his deleting his FB and presumed request of privacy at this point), who was an annual passholder to the Universal Orlando parks, a reportedly "huge" fan and major Halloween Horror Nights fanatic, was banned from the resort (apparently permanently).

The details of the case are what makes it so interesting.

Yesterday, it would appear there was some sort of "incident" that prompted the attention of Universal team members. While the exact details are unclear due to a majority of the discussion (which was conducted on FB) was deleted, there appeared to be some rambunctious, over-the-top behavior (alcohol almost certainly involved and possibly linked to World Cup viewing at Finnegan's). A heated altercation took place between a team member (whose name I will also withhold) and this fan; it apparently intensified to the point where the team member threatened to kick the individual out (this is corroborated by various witnesses to the events). At this point, the guy cut his losses and left the park.

However, at some point later that day, the individual identified the team member on Facebook and publicly declared that he hoped she "dies and goes to hell." Now, horrifying by any account especially if the individual in question was being out of line for a family theme park setting, but as it turns out this wasn't any ordinary TM, but rather someone rather high up in the Universal Art & Design team. The post was tracked, and as of today, the individual learned of his ban when he failed to be able to use his annual pass to enter the park.

In the hours since (before his FB was deleted) he posted several statuses implying a threat of suicide, including quotes like "Universal and HHN were my life and now that they're gone I am as well." He has since allegedly decided to depart Orlando and (wisely) spend some time with his family. I want to clarify this is a fully grown, adult male.

There are several reasons I bring this case up. It reveals a rather ugly underbelly of Universal passholders who apparently treat the parks like a mall, not unlike a problem the Disneyland Resort has been dealing with the past several years - but unlike Disneyland Park, which does not serve liquor (though DCA does in limited capacities), the Uni parks serve fairly freely. These folks (some of whom I have encountered in person at various HHN events) literally base their lives around hanging out at these parks, and in many cases, drinking heavily at them. I don't mean to generalize, but I've personally witnessed many do it, and they all feed into each others' behavior acting like it isn't a big deal or unhealthy in any way. These parks *are* their lives.

Now, finally, there have been repercussions to this behavior. Some of the individual's friends have fairly called him out on the severity and ugliness of his actions - others have attempted to defend him almost to the point of lunacy. Everyone else seems to feel sympathy for the guy being banned rather than acknowledge how messed up his behavior was (and of course how he's reacting to it now!)

I will never understand anyone who moves to Orlando specifically to be around the theme parks (excluding those who are working there in high-level, salaried positions). I have a contempt for those who treat it as a personal bar and create a frankly unpleasant, creepy atmosphere for families and others just trying to enjoy the park, and the sense of entitlement that encroaches out of that. If you're an AP holder, live in the area, and visit often, great - but your actions have consequences and we need to all remember that we're in a family vacation destination, not some random cheap corner bar. It also doesn't matter how much money you've given Universal over the years... it does not give you a free pass to treat TMs of ANY sort (or any guest for that matter) so viciously and rudely.

I applaud Universal for doing the right thing and making sure this guy was banned; he and his ilk have no place in the Universal parks.

HOLY Crap. Thats one heck of a tale.

Also, its nice to see that Uni doesnt screw around. They have no qualms about trespassing people.

 

[Cesar R M]

Although not mentioned in the CNN article, Disney has had at least 2 employees molest kids on their property (cruise line)

In one of those, there are claims the company did try to cover it up.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/former-disney-cruise-security-officer-speaks-out/25643656

I read that case a few months ago... I still wonder why the hell this "security officer" only went ahead to make noise AFTER she got fired.

I couldn't agree with this more.

I would also say that it's beyond reason to expect any corporate entity be it Disney the Catholic Church ect..
to fully stop this behavior from happening.

I think these type of crimes are some of the worst types possible.

Maybe a better solution would simply be life sentences for those proven guilty beyond all doubt.

\
to be honest.. things were different in the Church case.
they outright DEFENDED and PROTECTED well known pedophile priests.
2 very high level priests (a cardinal from mexico and one from the US), constantly moved this guy instead of removing him. Despite having huge proof that he kept molesting children everywhere he went!
this went as far as 30 years!!!

 

[Skip]

1) It's not hard to get drunk at Disneyland. Not...at...all...and you don't even have to sneak anything in. Just a 10 minute walk to DTD.

2) If Universal or Disney didn't want to have these sorts of encounters, then they should have set up adult venues around their parks. If I'm there with my kid, I don't take her to La Cava (a bar) for an extended period (yeah, we'll have some salsa, guac and chips while I down a cucumber margarita or something and she has whatever virgin drink she chose, but I it's a bar...period...and she doesn't need to be there long. Venues we completely avoid? House of Blues and ESPN Zone. Why? These are adult environments that a) would probably bore her and b) I suspect would have activities not suited for her young eyes. Not much different than the now defunct Pleasure Island offerings.

3) Someone moving to Orlando to be near the parks is a perfectly valid motivation. These are the largest hospitality companies in the world, with significant advancement opportunities. It's a smart career move for many.

4) While I agree with your general assessment that the behaviour was poor, again I point to the fact that Disney and Universal both have encouraged this behaviour. In fact, DTD and Citywalk THRIVE on local business. It's Orlando's version of the Vegas strip, with far less debauchery. I don't expect to NOT see inebriated people there, and frankly, have been shocked how few I've seen.

I enjoy and appreciate the spirit of your post, but I find your "incident" rather lacking substance. A guy got drunk and impassioned, shot off his mouth, then (as is apt to happen with social media) shot off his mouth online.

The true measure of his character is far more than his comments on one night of debauchery. And the content of his contributions to the organization as a whole should not be judged as such. It was done for liability reasons, plain and simple.

The same reasons these environments were created in the first place. To collect and / or defend the almightly profits.

1) I think most would argue successfully that you are far more likely to see inebriated crowds at Universal over Disneyland. This *is* Universal's doing, mind you - they make the presence and availability of alcohol far more known and do much to spur sales. I won't even get into Halloween Horror Nights...

2) I'll assume you meant "should not have." Look, I don't object to a bar in the park, especially one as nice as Finnegan's. My point is that its existence has resulted in the emergence of a culture of people who drink there semi-daily, and due to annual passes and a constant presence in the parks a grossly misplaced sense of entitlement from the offenders. I'm not complaining that some 10 year old could've seen some drinking at a bar... but c'mon, you shouldn't be getting drunk at Universal in the early afternoon every other day, and there shouldn't be a group of people that support each other in the behavior.

3) I specifically excluded those people - I have no issues with those who move to Orlando for salaried career positions. However, the people I'm referring to in my original post do not work for Universal in any capacity and many have never even thought about applying.

4) I actually don't disagree that this behavior has been subtly encouraged by the presence of alcohol - however, Disney/Uni can't kick people out for "creepiness" or "showing up every day" without some major blowback and a potential lawsuit... they kind of have their hands tied until something like this happens. Frankly, while it appears alcohol was involved in this case, there have been other less serious offenses I've heard about that involve people perfectly sober. It's the entitlement culture that is so bothersome - the alcohol only exacerbates it.

I still strongly feel Universal is doing right in giving the guy the boot (as would anyone I suspect), since it's an open and shut case. But I also feel that many within the company are sighing with relief that they had an excuse to shoot a sort of "warning shot" to others like him.

I think if you'd seen this guy's Facebook page prior to its deletion you might disagree on his character. The statuses he was posting (which again included threats of suicide over a theme park) displayed a tremendous lack of stability, restraint, and maturity - it's not just the act itself, it's how he's chosen to react to it.

 

[Trauma]

Not sure bombshell is the word I'd use...
It's good info, for sure, but calling it a bombshell is setting unreasonable expectations.

The bigger impact will be at TDO. This will be rampant over there:

While here, a lot of this:

So since I'm new here can you translate your post for me?

Are you saying that you already know the news that the spirit is going to break?

Furthermore the suits at tdo will be upset the news is leaked and the fans will view the news as another stupid move by tdo?


Also I just noticed since signing up I have received like 40 emails from this site what do I do to stop this!!!

Thanks

 

[Skip]

Reading this, disregard my response to your post...

I think there are undertones I'm missing. <grin>

Whoops. Wish I'd seen this before I responded, but hey, reasoned discussion is good for everyone!

 

[englanddg]

1) I think most would argue successfully that you are far more likely to see inebriated crowds at Disneyland over Universal. This *is* Universal's doing, mind you - they make the presence and availability of alcohol far more known and do much to spur sales. I won't even get into Halloween Horror Nights...

2) I'll assume you meant "should not have." Look, I don't object to a bar in the park, especially one as nice as Finnegan's. My point is that its existence has resulted in the emergence of a culture of people who drink there semi-daily, and due to annual passes and a constant presence in the parks a grossly misplaced sense of entitlement from the offenders. I'm not complaining that some 10 year old could've seen some drinking at a bar... but c'mon, you shouldn't be getting drunk at Universal in the early afternoon every other day, and there shouldn't be a group of people that support each other in the behavior.

3) I specifically excluded those people - I have no issues with those who move to Orlando for salaried career positions. However, the people I'm referring to in my original post do not work for Universal in any capacity and many have never even thought about applying.

4) I actually don't disagree that this behavior has been subtly encouraged by the presence of alcohol - however, Disney/Uni can't kick people out for "creepiness" or "showing up every day" without some major blowback and a potential lawsuit... they kind of have their hands tied until something like this happens. Frankly, while it appears alcohol was involved in this case, there have been other less serious offenses I've heard about that involve people perfectly sober. It's the entitlement culture that is so bothersome - the alcohol only exacerbates it.

I still strongly feel Universal is doing right in giving the guy the boot (as would anyone I suspect), since it's an open and shut case. But I also feel that many within the company are sighing with relief that they had an excuse to shoot a sort of "warning shot" to others like him.

I think if you'd seen this guy's Facebook page prior to its deletion you might disagree on his character. The statuses he was posting (which again included threats of suicide over a theme park) displayed a tremendous lack of stability, restraint, and maturity - it's not just the act itself, it's how he's chosen to react to it.

Yeah, see my later post. There's an undertone to your first one that missed, for sure. <grin>

 

[englanddg]

Whoops. Wish I'd seen this before I responded, but hey, reasoned discussion is good for everyone!

No disagreement from me!

Loved your response, by the way. Reasonable discussion can be a rare thing.

 

[Joe]

Likely in a few days. I want to see what coverage this CNN report gets beyond the network.

Spirit, take your time before dropping your big news about WDW. We need to stay focused on this CNN story. This CNN story is too important to be over shadowed by new news and swept under the rug.

 

[Lee]

Are you saying that you already know the news that the spirit is going to break?

I am able to pick up on, and to discern the meaning of, Spirited vibrations.

Furthermore the suits at tdo will be upset the news is leaked and the fans will view the news as another stupid move by

Accurate.

 

[Cesar R M]

Apparently the dude went ahead and deleted any "friend" who was willing to tell him his actions were horrifying and out of line and the punishment deserved, while "keeping" anyone who defended or sympathized with him. Talk about living in a bubble around yourself...

What's worse is these people have fetishized some Universal Art & Design members (most notably mainstay Michael Aiello) to the point where they refuse to criticize any of Universal's efforts (especially anything relating to HHN) and actually go out of their way to attempt to justify shoddy attractions with "Hey, A&D worked hard!" Now these professionals love the passion and appreciation from their fans (particularly the able-minded ones with lives of their own), but you can't really compartmentalize them - so they have an obligation to pander to the creepiest of them as well as the more secure ones. With this you also have an increased perception of proximity and even a falsified friendship, as these "local celebrities" are willing to "friend" you on Facebook and will occasionally comment in unofficial forums dedicated to their work. (For what it's worth, the individual who was banned was friends with Aiello.) I'm not blaming A&D here, to be clear - there isn't a whole lot they can do besides say nothing to anyone at all. It's just unfortunate how the situation has festered.

But it's the defending that really gets me. Man, can you imagine if people around here tried to justify Journey Into Your Imagination with "The Imagineers worked really hard!"?

people like these, never understand that the "hugbox" mentality will never help them in any way. They are just sinking themselves further and further into an unrecoverable hole.
I've seen many fanboys, on different fandoms, who do the same.. and its amazing the rate of degradation when they have a full blown hugbox groupie team.

 

[englanddg]

Spirit, take your time before dropping your big news about WDW. We need to stay focused on this CNN story. This CNN story is too important to be over shadowed by new news and swept under the rug.

The CNN story is boring.

 

[PhotoDave219]

So since I'm new here can you translate your post for me?

Are you saying that you already know the news that the spirit is going to break?

Furthermore the suits at tdo will be upset the news is leaked and the fans will view the news as another stupid move by tdo?


Also I just noticed since signing up I have received like 40 emails from this site what do I do to stop this!!!

Thanks

Go here -> http://forums.wdwmagic.com/account/preferences

Unclick "and receive email notifications of replies"

 

[Cesar R M]

Not sure bombshell is the word I'd use...
It's good info, for sure, but calling it a bombshell is setting unreasonable expectations.

The bigger impact will be at TDO. This will be rampant over there:

While here, a lot of this:

almost makes me wonder.. are they confirming Rasulo as CEO and then slashing more budgets for TDO?
I mean.. cant get worse than this... riiiight?

 

[Next Big Thing]

Don't have to...but I'd prefer it.
Just talking about me, who has zero interest in princesses and little interest in cartoons as a whole, and likes the idea of keeping them as contained in one land as possible.

My main point is, a park like Magic Kingdom, while it has plenty of room for expansion still, is the #1 most attended park. Right now, expansion doesn't make sense as much at MK as it does at the other 3 parks.

I also don't see how there would be anything more than just a ride across from the new Dumbo (which would make zero sense) if they were to build Frozen at MK. They built an entire new indoor building, spinner and area for Dumbo. I don't see them moving it just like that as I know that it wasn't the cheapest build.

I'd much rather a land at DHS. The park needs help, it has land being wasted and it would be a huge draw. Win all around, especially if they used cool ride tech. Of course i'm dreaming here, but i'd love to see it...

 

[englanddg]

And the end of it is disturbing. Lie detector tests as federal law to get employed?

Is your interviewer going to be asking if you think 10 year old boys have attractive bums?

Where does this madness end?

It's a shock story based off a sting operation that was written specifically to make local law enforcement look good so they can justify whatever grant they got from the state or feds to pay for said operation, and then spun by the media to lay blame on individuals (the others who were not charged with criminal acts who work for the corporation, like the hiring teams, HR, and managers) that it's somehow their fault.

Get over it.

 

[Trauma]

Spirit, take your time before dropping your big news about WDW. We need to stay focused on this CNN story. This CNN story is too important to be over shadowed by new news and swept under the rug.

I won't speak for others but my mind is capable of following two things at the same time.

 

[Mike S]

Not to digress from discussing the CNN report, but a bit of action went down somewhat quietly today that I think @WDW1974 might like to hear.

An individual (who will remain unnamed due to his deleting his FB and presumed request of privacy at this point), who was an annual passholder to the Universal Orlando parks, a reportedly "huge" fan and major Halloween Horror Nights fanatic, was banned from the resort (apparently permanently).

The details of the case are what makes it so interesting.

Yesterday, it would appear there was some sort of "incident" that prompted the attention of Universal team members. While the exact details are unclear due to a majority of the discussion (which was conducted on FB) was deleted, there appeared to be some rambunctious, over-the-top behavior (alcohol almost certainly involved and possibly linked to World Cup viewing at Finnegan's). A heated altercation took place between a team member (whose name I will also withhold) and this fan; it apparently intensified to the point where the team member threatened to kick the individual out (this is corroborated by various witnesses to the events). At this point, the guy cut his losses and left the park.

However, at some point later that day, the individual identified the team member on Facebook and publicly declared that he hoped she "dies and goes to hell." Now, horrifying by any account especially if the individual in question was being out of line for a family theme park setting, but as it turns out this wasn't any ordinary TM, but rather someone rather high up in the Universal Art & Design team. The post was tracked, and as of today, the individual learned of his ban when he failed to be able to use his annual pass to enter the park.

In the hours since (before his FB was deleted) he posted several statuses implying a threat of suicide, including quotes like "Universal and HHN were my life and now that they're gone I am as well." He has since allegedly decided to depart Orlando and (wisely) spend some time with his family. I want to clarify this is a fully grown, adult male.

There are several reasons I bring this case up. It reveals a rather ugly underbelly of Universal passholders who apparently treat the parks like a mall, not unlike a problem the Disneyland Resort has been dealing with the past several years - but unlike Disneyland Park, which does not serve liquor (though DCA does in limited capacities), the Uni parks serve fairly freely. These folks (some of whom I have encountered in person at various HHN events) literally base their lives around hanging out at these parks, and in many cases, drinking heavily at them. I don't mean to generalize, but I've personally witnessed many do it, and they all feed into each others' behavior acting like it isn't a big deal or unhealthy in any way. These parks *are* their lives.

Now, finally, there have been repercussions to this behavior. Some of the individual's friends have fairly called him out on the severity and ugliness of his actions - others have attempted to defend him almost to the point of lunacy. Everyone else seems to feel sympathy for the guy being banned rather than acknowledge how messed up his behavior was (and of course how he's reacting to it now!)

I will never understand anyone who moves to Orlando specifically to be around the theme parks (excluding those who are working there in high-level, salaried positions). I have a contempt for those who treat it as a personal bar and create a frankly unpleasant, creepy atmosphere for families and others just trying to enjoy the park, and the sense of entitlement that encroaches out of that. If you're an AP holder, live in the area, and visit often, great - but your actions have consequences and we need to all remember that we're in a family vacation destination, not some random cheap corner bar. It also doesn't matter how much money you've given Universal over the years... it does not give you a free pass to treat TMs of ANY sort (or any guest for that matter) so viciously and rudely.

I applaud Universal for doing the right thing and making sure this guy was banned; he and his ilk have no place in the Universal parks.

That is just insane, thanks for sharing.

 

[englanddg]

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When you gonna change that avatar @PhotoDave?

It makes me think of Fupa Chalupas...and Steven King...and McDonalds...

All disturbing mental images.