The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

John

Well-Known Member
I think a lot of people are being combative.

The real issue is what is going on at these companies, especially Disney, and what they are doing about it.

Some folks here think I'm joking when I talk of Imagineer/fanboi hookups, but it is a known issue and has been for years. ... Much like Bryan Singer's activities that either walked the line or crossed it.

Those should be the issues, not whether we should discuss this or whether Disney and UNI and SW are being treated unfairly.


This I agree with. Yes you have mentioned those incidents and I always wondered why if true nothing was being done? In fact wasn't there pictures posted at one time.....around the time of the "twinkie" talk? Then they are being complicit? no?
 

Voice of Disney sanity

Well-Known Member
Not getting into a semantics debate with you. Sorry.

I do believe they bear some responsibility ... if that makes them complicit legally, then so be it. I broke my mother's heart and never got that worthless law degree, so I don't know.
Responsibility for what? For some guy being arrested at home for pretending a cop was a kid? How is disney responsible for that? Are you actually saying that if Disney would not have hired them they wouldn't have committed that act?
 

Trauma

Well-Known Member
Classy, dude. Very classy.

I'm protecting no one, but thanks. Oh, and if I haven't made it clear enough for you, I went to folks at CNN with the story last year. I fully expected Disney to kill it fully since that is their MO.

I'll take pleasure in knowing that Bob Iger and his flying monkeys are probably having a miserable night.

Can you or someone just explain to me what is being implied?

Are you saying that Disney isn't doing everything they can to stop this type of behavior because

A: they don't care
B: It would cost money to do so
C: they don't think there is a problem
D: all of the above

It seems to me like this is horrible press coverage for a company so closely associated with children and I just don't understand why Disney wouldn't do everything in its power to stop it.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I guess that's how you win debates. You don't actually pay attention to what the other person is saying.

I'm paying very good attention.

People here are defending Disney or at very least attacking CNN (and myself) for talking about this subject. Disney isn't the victim here. Nor is UNI. Nor is SW.

Generally, I'd say this is the 'defending da man' BS that was popular when Wall Street and Big Business almost destroyed this country in 2008, but here we are talking about children and sexual predators. I'd rather err on the side of harming a $150 billion corp than a child. But that's just me and I am a cold heartless Spirit.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
I wasn't aware of that. But you can't expect every incident to get in a report. You know better than most here how things often get cut from stories (or even inserted) by folks who didn't spend days, weeks or even months working a story.

The fact it is a problem everywhere means the media should do whatever it can to bring it to light, so it hopefully becomes a very rare issue. Not an every day one.

Sloppy journalism is worse than no journalism and all. You and I both know that.

It simply detracts from the point they were trying to make. In this particular case, the rest of the actor training captain America from Universal, it was very widespread, it all the newspapers, even hit gawker.

I mean that's the act of a predator trying to pick up a teenage girl through his role at a park, plain and simple.

How CNN was able to miss that, I don't know. I really don't care. All I know is whether producer was involved with this piece, they need to hang their head in shame for not doing a good job.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
@WDW1974

CNN should do an investigative report on how some of the character performers live when they're off duty...and how some Imagineers make friends...and how many straight-up pervs are on the college program.

Totally agree. And if you don't think some of those issues have been fed to the media than you don't know certain Spirits very well! :)
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
I'm paying very good attention.

People here are defending Disney or at very least attacking CNN (and myself) for talking about this subject. Disney isn't the victim here. Nor is UNI. Nor is SW.

Generally, I'd say this is the 'defending da man' BS that was popular when Wall Street and Big Business almost destroyed this country in 2008, but here we are talking about children and sexual predators. I'd rather err on the side of harming a $150 billion corp than a child. But that's just me and I am a cold heartless Spirit.

So let's look at this. What's look at it from the worldview and show exactly how widespread a problem this is through society and how it reaches every part of society.

This isn't simply a Disney problem, this isn't simply a universal problem, it's not just the Catholic Church, and it's simply not just the Boy Scouts. It's a widespread problem through all segments of American society and it cannot be tolerated, accepted or swept under the rug.
 

Lee

Adventurer
And how could they prevent? Without an answer to that question such assertions lack merit. Why aren't you doing more to prevent world hunger?
Hey, I helped buy a well for a village in Africa! True story!

As for what Disney, Uni and the others could do...I'm not sure. I'm not their consultant on pedo-prevention so I haven't spent time trying to solve the problem.

I can say, I'd like to hear of a company-wide initiative along the lines of "see something-say something". How about some posters promoting a zero-tolerance policy down in the utilidors and backstage. Maybe Tom Staggs telling Kira Phillips, "We know it's a problem inherent to our industry and we are willing to do whatever it takes to combat it."

That stuff would be a good start...
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Not really with the definition I used. Yes, I looked it up before I posted.
"Choosing to be involved in an illegal or questionable act, especially with others; having complicity."
But, whatever...

Disney isn't doing anything to purposely facilitate this behavior, as I see it. They simply aren't going out of their way to stop it. Reminds me a bit of the old Ford Pinto problem. The "cheaper to pay off the victims than to solve the problem" mindset.

It's been my observation over the past 10 years of being around this company that when an employee is arrested for these crimes, he is essentially terminated immediately.

Disney does not seem to screw around when their employees do these things. They don't seem to tolerate it Ali when you have 70,000 people, you have no idea what they're going to do in their off time.

From an employer perspective, I'm not sure there's anything Disney can do additionally that they don't do already to prevent people who are interested in children from taking a role inside their company.
 

Smiddimizer

Well-Known Member
I can say, I'd like to hear of a company-wide initiative along the lines of "see something-say something". How about some posters promoting a zero-tolerance policy down in the utilidors and backstage. Maybe Tom Staggs telling Kira Phillips, "We know it's a problem inherent to our industry and we are willing to do whatever it takes to combat it."

That stuff would be a good start...

I have a sneaking suspicion you'll see just that when fit hits the shan..

And we'll have CNN to thank!
 

Trauma

Well-Known Member
So let's look at this. What's look at it from the worldview and show exactly how widespread a problem this is through society and how it reaches every part of society.

This isn't simply a Disney problem, this isn't simply a universal problem, it's not just the Catholic Church, and it's simply not just the Boy Scouts. It's a widespread problem through all segments of American society and it cannot be tolerated, accepted or swept under the rug.

I couldn't agree with this more.

I would also say that it's beyond reason to expect any corporate entity be it Disney the Catholic Church ect..
to fully stop this behavior from happening.

I think these type of crimes are some of the worst types possible.

Maybe a better solution would simply be life sentences for those proven guilty beyond all doubt.
 

Lee

Adventurer
It's been my observation over the past 10 years of being around this company that when an employee is arrested for these crimes, he is essentially terminated immediately.

Disney does not seem to screw around when their employees do these things. They don't seem to tolerate it Ali when you have 70,000 people, you have no idea what they're going to do in their off time.

From an employer perspective, I'm not sure there's anything Disney can do additionally that they don't do already to prevent people who are interested in children from taking a role inside their company.
Perhaps...
But if I'm Disney, I'm having training classes, seminars, everything I could think of to at least make these people think twice, or three times, before actually doing it.

That one guy was worried about losing his job because he got caught in the sting. He shouldn't be worried about it, he should be certain of it. Certain enough that if you like your job, you will find a way to suppress your urges and maybe spend a moment reflecting on the issues you clearly have.
 

Skip

Well-Known Member
Not to digress from discussing the CNN report, but a bit of action went down somewhat quietly today that I think @WDW1974 might like to hear.

An individual (who will remain unnamed due to his deleting his FB and presumed request of privacy at this point), who was an annual passholder to the Universal Orlando parks, a reportedly "huge" fan and major Halloween Horror Nights fanatic, was banned from the resort (apparently permanently).

The details of the case are what makes it so interesting.

Yesterday, it would appear there was some sort of "incident" that prompted the attention of Universal team members. While the exact details are unclear due to a majority of the discussion (which was conducted on FB) was deleted, there appeared to be some rambunctious, over-the-top behavior (alcohol almost certainly involved and possibly linked to World Cup viewing at Finnegan's). A heated altercation took place between a team member (whose name I will also withhold) and this fan; it apparently intensified to the point where the team member threatened to kick the individual out (this is corroborated by various witnesses to the events). At this point, the guy cut his losses and left the park.

However, at some point later that day, the individual identified the team member on Facebook and publicly declared that he hoped she "dies and goes to hell." Now, horrifying by any account especially if the individual in question was being out of line for a family theme park setting, but as it turns out this wasn't any ordinary TM, but rather someone rather high up in the Universal Art & Design team. The post was tracked, and as of today, the individual learned of his ban when he failed to be able to use his annual pass to enter the park.

In the hours since (before his FB was deleted) he posted several statuses implying a threat of suicide, including quotes like "Universal and HHN were my life and now that they're gone I am as well." He has since allegedly decided to depart Orlando and (wisely) spend some time with his family. I want to clarify this is a fully grown, adult male.

There are several reasons I bring this case up. It reveals a rather ugly underbelly of Universal passholders who apparently treat the parks like a mall, not unlike a problem the Disneyland Resort has been dealing with the past several years - but unlike Disneyland Park, which does not serve liquor (though DCA does in limited capacities), the Uni parks serve fairly freely. These folks (some of whom I have encountered in person at various HHN events) literally base their lives around hanging out at these parks, and in many cases, drinking heavily at them. I don't mean to generalize, but I've personally witnessed many do it, and they all feed into each others' behavior acting like it isn't a big deal or unhealthy in any way. These parks *are* their lives.

Now, finally, there have been repercussions to this behavior. Some of the individual's friends have fairly called him out on the severity and ugliness of his actions - others have attempted to defend him almost to the point of lunacy. Everyone else seems to feel sympathy for the guy being banned rather than acknowledge how messed up his behavior was (and of course how he's reacting to it now!)

I will never understand anyone who moves to Orlando specifically to be around the theme parks (excluding those who are working there in high-level, salaried positions). I have a contempt for those who treat it as a personal bar and create a frankly unpleasant, creepy atmosphere for families and others just trying to enjoy the park, and the sense of entitlement that encroaches out of that. If you're an AP holder, live in the area, and visit often, great - but your actions have consequences and we need to all remember that we're in a family vacation destination, not some random cheap corner bar. It also doesn't matter how much money you've given Universal over the years... it does not give you a free pass to treat TMs of ANY sort (or any guest for that matter) so viciously and rudely.

I applaud Universal for doing the right thing and making sure this guy was banned; he and his ilk have no place in the Universal parks.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Hey, I helped buy a well for a village in Africa! True story!

As for what Disney, Uni and the others could do...I'm not sure. I'm not their consultant on pedo-prevention so I haven't spent time trying to solve the problem.

I can say, I'd like to hear of a company-wide initiative along the lines of "see something-say something". How about some posters promoting a zero-tolerance policy down in the utilidors and backstage. Maybe Tom Staggs telling Kira Phillips, "We know it's a problem inherent to our industry and we are willing to do whatever it takes to combat it."

That stuff would be a good start...
Without an established criteria of what action should taken, there is no standard on which to adequately measure current efforts.

I've already said that people who know of such misconduct and do not act are not innocent. If Disney is not taking such accusations seriously then that is an issue that must come to light. But sexual assault is not often done in public. The huge hurdle that needs to be tackled is secrecy.

Perhaps...
But if I'm Disney, I'm having training classes, seminars, everything I could think of to at least make these people think twice, or three times, before actually doing it.

That one guy was worried about losing his job because he got caught in the sting. He shouldn't be worried about it, he should be certain of it. Certain enough that if you like your job, you will find a way to suppress your urges and maybe spend a moment reflecting on the issues you clearly have.
The guy's concern was in regards to his continued access to children, not his paycheck. There is also some sizable evidence that shows that increased punishments are not an effective deterrent to crime. As @PhotoDave219 keeps pointing out, the issue goes far beyond Disney or theme parks. This needs to be a general discussion with large measures that fit the scale.
 

DktrBob

New Member
I am usually a lurker here, but the story is important enough that I am jumping in.

For me, the reason that this story matters so much is not because of what Disney knew or didn't know. Frankly, that is almost besides the point.

What matters is that there are pedophiles in the parks. Sure, maybe there are sexual predators in other places too, but most other businesses do not cater specifically to children. Parents need to be on guard that their children are not necessarily safe. They should not become so seduced by the "magic" that they lose their good judgment.

If the story makes parents think critically about who these people are under the masks, hugging their children, that is a good thing. We probably do need this sort of wake-up call.
 

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Again I will take exception with what you said, I will not try to debate with you as I am ill equipped. What I will say is that its EVERYONES responsibility to protect our children. Is it a news organizations responsibility? No, their job is to report the news. But there are certain ethical and moral issues we need to address as a nation, where the only reward we receive is the comfort of knowing that our effort was noble.

Just HOW is everyone responsible?

I agree your post is a sweet sentiment but how are you implementing protecting ALL the children. As a long term school board member I ask, just how do we do our jobs better? We run background checks, we have them printed and run the prints as does Disney. It comes back clean if they happen to be a creeper that has yet to be caught. I am interested in your specifics as to exactly what we do beyond being clairvoyant. What legal, noble efforts and procedures are you specifically proposing to protect our children further 'cause I can't entertain ideas that are illegal. I'm all ears.
 

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