The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[R W B]

More interest on the part of city officials than on the part of DCL. Don't think they'll go there.

Thanks for the info, can't say that I like it though lol.

 

[tamotu99]

We were there in early November before the movie had come out and virtually no one knew really who Anna and Elsa were, and the line then for the meet and greet was ridiculous, made the shop unshoppable, the outside area of Norway was swamped, the entrace to the bakery was impossible to get to

Now replace meet and greet with two currently unknown characters, with a low capacity ride, with a small cramped crew area, based on the most commercially successful animated film ever and all i can see is chaos, it is completely the wrong place for it

Now say what you want about the current Disney management, but the two things they like are people to be able to get into shops, and for the lines to be hidden inside the show buildings as much as possible, i cant see either of those happening in Norway, and if i can see that then surely someone at some stage of the process inside the company, so i am appealing to their greedy money making ways, put it somewhere else

 

[Bairstow]

If Disney were to do that, it likely would mean destroying a large chunk (or more) of the pavilion as Maelstrom is pretty shoehorned into the space. Can't imagine anyone here would be happy about that.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Wow, how long did that take? Lol

12 Hours. According to the time lapse my friends sent me from the same cruise.



My friends did not take that, but they were on the cruise....

 

[HM Spectre]

The thing is, Disney and Universal are playing different games.
Universal has to make Diagon Alley a world beater because they're dependent on the pull of their attractions to get people to come to Universal, or better yet, buy park-hopper tickets for a 2-day stay that sees both parks.

Disney, on the other hand, knows that most of their guests are going to be coming to Disney World year after year anyway- the only questions are 1) whether their guests are going to visit all four parks every time or just the Magic Kingdom and 1-2 others and 2) how much they're going to spend on merch.
The Frozen ride doesn't have to be good. It just has to 1) be Frozen, in order to goad families with small children into adding an EPCOT day and 2) have a big*** gift shop, hopefully with less of a queue than the ride.

That might be their thinking but it's not sustainable. One company is making a constant push for market share by spending money and increasing quality. The other is trying to maintain the status quo by cutting as many corners as they think they can get away with. It's pretty obvious which way the see-saw will tip eventually.

It's like Star Wars Land... one of the hottest IPs of all time, a park (DHS) that has stagnated in attendance and is dying for new attractions, multiple movies coming out and a land that would be a great counter to your competitor's big play (a real Potter-swatter)... not to mention relieving some of capacity from the MK. It's a literal no-brainer. Yet, it keeps getting delayed and I'd be extremely surprised if they put the money into it to make it absolutely top notch like it deserves.

There is definitely a segment of Disney's audience that will go to Disney World no matter what but with the other segment of their guests that gauge value, they're losing ground fast. It stands to get even worse if they aren't able to create the same memories and love for the parks that the current generation has for them... but who am I kidding... the powers that be probably aren't looking far past this quarter let alone into a new generation.

 

[Bairstow]

That might be their thinking but it's not sustainable. One company is making a constant push for market share by spending money and increasing quality. The other is trying to maintain the status quo by cutting as many corners as they think they can get away with. It's pretty obvious which way the see-saw will tip eventually.

It's like Star Wars Land... one of the hottest IPs of all time, a park (DHS) that has stagnated in attendance and is dying for new attractions, multiple movies coming out and a land that would be a great counter to your competitor's big play (a real Potter-swatter)... not to mention relieving some of capacity from the MK. It's a literal no-brainer. Yet, it keeps getting delayed and I'd be extremely surprised if they put the money into it to make it absolutely top notch like it deserves.

There is definitely a segment of Disney's audience that will go to Disney World no matter what but with the other segment of their guests that gauge value, they're losing ground fast. It stands to get even worse if they aren't able to create the same memories and love for the parks that the current generation has for them... but who am I kidding... the powers that be probably aren't looking far past this quarter let alone into a new generation.

Again, sustainable market share and long-term gains are unimportant.
The critical thing is ensuring an uptick in profitability while you're on the board.
What happens 5, 10 years down the road is someone else's problem.

 

[Figments Friend]

Same here. My wife and I go on vacation to get a BREAK from all the scheduling and planning we do in our everyday lives. Theres nothing like waking up at Yacht/Beach Club and having coffee on our balcony overlooking Crescent Lake and deciding what park to visit that day. Thats all the planning we need.

I know there are many first time visitors that the system ( MM/FP+ ) may help but I think part of what makes/made WDW so special was all the exploring you could do and finding new things around every corner. Theres a huge difference when you DISCOVER something magical that comes across the path you chose that day at WDW rather than planning to do it on the third day of your trip at 3 pm because thats the day you chose to use FP+ at MK and you can squeeze it in before you ride Space Mountian. Forced experiences are a far cry from organic ones. For decades people managed to navigate through WDW and actually returned for more and it didnt require MM+. People just think they need this because, well,..."Disney said so"

Thank you.
You have beautifully stated what i have bee trying to express to people who ask me - 'why have you ditched WDW for Disneyland..'?

THIS. So much this.



I am a serious long time WDW fan, going regularly since the late 70s and then yearly starting in 1999... but over the last few years my attention has shifted over to the 'other coast'.
I am absolutely in love with Disneyland right now.
I have absolutely NO interest in going to WDW anytime soon...and i have a 4-Day Park Hopper sitting in my cabinet.
My love affair with 'the other Park' started in 2007...really took a hold of me in 2012....REALLY converted me last year.
I am now a bonified DL fan and i have my first Annual Passport ever to prove it!

Why do i now love Disneyland so much..?
Why have i 'turned my back' on Florida these days..?
For exactly the reasons you stated.
EXACTLY.

Folks, re-read wdisney9000's post again.
So perfectly stated.

I highly..HIGHLY recommend other WDW visitors to 'make the trek' to California and visit 'the Original'.
You will not be dissapointed if you go with a open mind, and resist the urge to make 'comparisons'.
Does wonders and opens up a whole new door to how enjoyable a 'Disney Vacation' can be.

Sadly, 'The Vacation Kingdom Of The World' has been chipped away far too much.
It is now 'The Planning Kingdom Of The World'.

There is a REASON why Disneyland is still called 'The Happiest Place On Earth'
Visit it in person and see WHY !

 

[Mike S]

We were there in early November before the movie had come out and virtually no one knew really who Anna and Elsa were, and the line then for the meet and greet was ridiculous, made the shop unshoppable, the outside area of Norway was swamped, the entrace to the bakery was impossible to get to

Now replace meet and greet with two currently unknown characters, with a low capacity ride, with a small cramped crew area, based on the most commercially successful animated film ever and all i can see is chaos, it is completely the wrong place for it

Now say what you want about the current Disney management, but the two things they like are people to be able to get into shops, and for the lines to be hidden inside the show buildings as much as possible, i cant see either of those happening in Norway, and if i can see that then surely someone at some stage of the process inside the company, so i am appealing to their greedy money making ways, put it somewhere else

The lines in Norway will be worse than Black Friday. Winter is coming.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I know they have taken a lot of heat lately, but Miceage has largely been accurate and on top of things.

DL is getting an all-new original night parade, a new pyro show and plussed versions of all the classic dark rides for the 60th. There will also be lots of nostalgia and nods to history with some returning things (hopefully, Fantasia ice cream will be one of them!)

T-land will be getting a redo and, yes, Star Wars is coming ... but they are going to take their time. They have already thrown out plans for DLR and TPFKaTD-MGMS and started again.

And since we are talking about DL, one thing that they do soooooo much better out there is merchandise. Yet, they still suffer from the One Disney mentality. That can be seen in all the Poly and WDW Adventureland merchandise for sale that is being passed off as DLR. Or even a set of glasses where they have say WDW's BTMRR on one side and DL's RR on the other ... WDW's Space Mountain on one side and DL's Sub Voyage on the other.

It's weak. People do NOT visit Disney Parks. They visit DL OR the MK or DAK or EPCOT etc ... people don't want Disney BRANDed crap that can be sold all over.

Now, on a merchandise positive, what a great surprise to see loads of Frontierland merchandise that is themed to the era and, much, isn't Disney at all. What a shock to see Pendleton Mills shirts for sale in the same location they operated in from 1955-1984.

Also, Cars Land continues to see loads of themed merchandise that can only be bought there. Great to see.

Finally, thanks to the friend who took us shopping at Company D/Property Control. So great to see merchandise that is the exact same as currently in the parks at 50-75% off (couldn't believe all the Cars Land stuff, all that Marvel stuff, Tommy Bahama and, especially, Wonderground Gallery stuff!!!) That's what WDW used to offer before its PC largely became simply another version of the multiple outlet stores they operate in malls across Florida.

The Cars Land stuff is still selling because it's still a popular franchise. If they built a Frozen village in Fantasyland and had a Frozen merchandise shop that sold exclusive merchandise should we praise them for selling themed merchandise?

They're selling what sells. You know full well that if the Cars Land stuff doesn't sell it's moving out. I suspect the same would be true over at Universal. I would expect that in time that the offerings in the candy shop might start decreasing, or the Weasley's Wizarding Wheezes may start with more products then what it levels out at. Disney will continue selling theme relevant merchandise if people keep consuming it. The alternative now for us fan boys are the limited edition print runs of shirts. I'm sure they've concluded that Horizons shirts aren't viable enough to take up a spot on an Emporium shirt rack, but a week long ordering run is more than sufficient.

 

[RSoxNo1]

and Gringotts replaced the only Universal Studios ride without a height limit, Jaws.

E.T. doesn't have a height limit, but I don't believe infants can ride it.

 

[RSoxNo1]

IoA hasn't had an attraction close since Triceratops Encounter. Jaws closed because something significantly better was to take its spot. Kong was an unfortunate cost cutting measure under bad times and bad leadership.

Thankfully the last one will be rectified next year.

Kong was replaced with The Mummy it didn't just close.

 

[arko]

Thank you.
You have beautifully stated what i have bee trying to express to people who ask me - 'why have you ditched WDW for Disneyland..'?

THIS. So much this.



I am a serious long time WDW fan, going regularly since the late 70s and then yearly starting in 1999... but over the last few years my attention has shifted over to the 'other coast'.
I am absolutely in love with Disneyland right now.
I have absolutely NO interest in going to WDW anytime soon...and i have a 4-Day Park Hopper sitting in my cabinet.
My love affair with 'the other Park' started in 2007...really took a hold of me in 2012....REALLY converted me last year.
I am now a bonified DL fan and i have my first Annual Passport ever to prove it!

Why do i now love Disneyland so much..?
Why have i 'turned my back' on Florida these days..?
For exactly the reasons you stated.
EXACTLY.

Folks, re-read wdisney9000's post again.
So perfectly stated.

I highly..HIGHLY recommend other WDW visitors to 'make the trek' to California and visit 'the Original'.
You will not be dissapointed if you go with a open mind, and resist the urge to make 'comparisons'.
Does wonders and opens up a whole new door to how enjoyable a 'Disney Vacation' can be.

Sadly, 'The Vacation Kingdom Of The World' has been chipped away far too much.
It is now 'The Planning Kingdom Of The World'.

There is a REASON why Disneyland is still called 'The Happiest Place On Earth'
Visit it in person and see WHY !

Well the whole DLR vs WDW argument is a completely different discussion, but again whether under the old FP or the new system, nothing stops somebody from walking into any Disney park and simply walking around and discovering it the way they want. The only impediment to getting everything done is standby ride wait time which on the most popular rides both DLR and WDW have issues with with or without FP+.

As AP holders we rarely plan beyond the day before if that, we usually enter the parks well after rope drop and somehow still enjoy ourselves without all that planning that many do.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The prior FP program only allowed advance FP selection for zero parks per day. Still, people park hopped.

Yes but you could also get FP upon entering whatever park you hopped to. That's the way hopping should be.

 

[dadddio]

Thank you.
You have beautifully stated what i have bee trying to express to people who ask me - 'why have you ditched WDW for Disneyland..'?

THIS. So much this.



I am a serious long time WDW fan, going regularly since the late 70s and then yearly starting in 1999... but over the last few years my attention has shifted over to the 'other coast'.
I am absolutely in love with Disneyland right now.
I have absolutely NO interest in going to WDW anytime soon...and i have a 4-Day Park Hopper sitting in my cabinet.
My love affair with 'the other Park' started in 2007...really took a hold of me in 2012....REALLY converted me last year.
I am now a bonified DL fan and i have my first Annual Passport ever to prove it!

Why do i now love Disneyland so much..?
Why have i 'turned my back' on Florida these days..?
For exactly the reasons you stated.
EXACTLY.

Folks, re-read wdisney9000's post again.
So perfectly stated.

I highly..HIGHLY recommend other WDW visitors to 'make the trek' to California and visit 'the Original'.
You will not be dissapointed if you go with a open mind, and resist the urge to make 'comparisons'.
Does wonders and opens up a whole new door to how enjoyable a 'Disney Vacation' can be.

Sadly, 'The Vacation Kingdom Of The World' has been chipped away far too much.
It is now 'The Planning Kingdom Of The World'.

There is a REASON why Disneyland is still called 'The Happiest Place On Earth'
Visit it in person and see WHY !

I've been to DL many times. I've also been to all the other Disney parks worldwide. They are all fine. Great, even in their own ways. I don't like them more than WDW, however.

 

[Figments Friend]

Well the whole DLR vs WDW argument is a completely different discussion, but again whether under the old FP or the new system, nothing stops somebody from walking into any Disney park and simply walking around and discovering it the way they want. The only impediment to getting everything done is standby ride wait time which on the most popular rides both DLR and WDW have issues with with or without FP+.

As AP holders we rarely plan beyond the day before if that, we usually enter the parks well after rope drop and somehow still enjoy ourselves without all that planning that many do.

True...it is up to the person to decide how they wish to experience the Park.
I am not a 'planner' either. Having visited so many times over the last 30+ years, i am in no rush.
I have had some wonderful experiences in WDW over the years...and i know if i went back tomorrow i still would find ample enjoyment.
But there is definitely a different vibe now between the two properties, WDW and DLR.
There has always been i am sure, long before i set foot in California..but i tend to prefer that vibe on the West Coast now.

In my experience, there are more opportunities to 'explore spontaneously' at Disneyland.
There is no push to try to plan everything ahead of time.
You don't have to out there for the most part, and that is a refreshing change when compared to what WDW has turned into recently.

 

[sshindel]

I still dont see it is an extra "fee" to ride Hogwarts.. its another park entrance!
even more attractions!

I really don't see it as an extra fee either. I did give it the quotes I think in my first post about it, don't know if I kept it up though.
But devil's advocate for a minute. Lets pretend I'm in town for a short trip. I decide to roll over to Uni and check out the buzz about all this Lightening Striking Twice I see on the old TV. I take the wife and kids. I buy a one-day ticket, go in, check out the rest of Uni, ride all the new stuff, drink at Moes, and head into Diagon Alley. I shop, drink butterbeer, and ride on Gringotts. Now, I look something else to do in this new expansion, I mean the first one had 3 rides! Hogwarts Express, another ride! Cool. Wait, I have to buy a 2nd park ticket at something like 20-30/person just to ride this? I know I get another park with more rides and stuff added on, but maybe I don't have time for that as I've spent all day enjoying the main park!

Again, I don't fully believe all of that. I think Uni made a good business move, and park-hopping is going to be the way of the future (I could see Disney phasing the non hopper tickets out as well). I'm just pointing out that it could be considered paying extra to ride the Hogwarts Express in the eyes of a number of guests.

 

[dadddio]

Yes but you could also get FP upon entering whatever park you hopped to. That's the way hopping should be.

You can still do that with FP+.

 

[Figments Friend]

I've been to DL many times. I've also been to all the other Disney parks worldwide. They are all fine. Great, even in their own ways. I don't like them more than WDW, however.

WDW is indeed unique.
It is indeed a spectacular property. A part of me will always be there.
EPCOT i have loved since it opened.

Maybe it is just the fact that DLR is 'different' that is making it more of interest to me now.
I love it out there.

 

[wdisney9000]

The only impediment to getting everything done is standby ride wait time which on the most popular rides both DLR and WDW have issues with with or without FP+.
.

But why did Disney sell the whole MM+ as an "enhancement". As I said before, I dont hate it, but I have seen ZERO enhancement in the several trips I have used it. It hasnt made it worse either. But where is the "enhancement"? FP lines are just the same, slower in some cases when you get people that jam up the entrance and it is more prone to errors when large groups book FP+ together. Standby times are slighlty longer in most cases. Rides that never needed FP now have it. It requires you have a smartphone unless you want to wait in line at a kiosk. We have already had 2 different MB's that wouldnt open our room door (never had a problem with the cards), and you have to spend chunks of your vacation time at front desk or guest services when the technology malfunctions and your lucky if the first CM you get knows how to handle it.

The only advantage is being able to change FP on your phone and not having to be at rope drop to get FP for the big attractions that can run out. The rope drop thing kinda washes out though because if you dont have a FP+ booked in advance for the big ones, theyre mostly gone quickly in the day anyway and you have to be at that specific park to use the FP+ there. (mostly, not always). So i ask, where is the enhancement (for the guest)? The few advantages it has are outweighed by the negatives, especially the price tag.

 

[Clamman73]