The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[BrianLo]

I was just responding to that last line because I agree with you. I like discussing different viewpoints. But the trend of the thread has gravitated more to one opinion is right and the other is wrong. And it's just the same thing over and over and over.

Ah ha but if you don't like it spacemt354...don't read it! Ah but see I do want to read it because I'm going to Diagon Alley in August. I want to read what people have to say. The positives and the negatives. I'm glad there are more positives than negatives but just let the negatives be what they are, and not mock them. Because the more the negative opinions are silence and mocked, the more validity I take away from the positive opinions, since they clearly aren't objective.

I don't really care much about spoilers so I want to go in to DA with as much info as I can. I want this to succeed and i want Uni to knock it out of the park. I also want objective opinion, which I know is a tall order for passionate fans .

You summarized my feelings exactly. I'm already aware the product is going to be great/excellent, anyone who has been following it with a open mind knows that. I'm already super excited for the land and will get the opportunity to sample it myself.

But I WANT to know the flaws, I can only take so much hyperbole from the fans before it actually starts to take away from the project that people have too much Pixie Dust (or the Potter equivalent) in their eyes to actually make a proper critique.

I'm already pretty convinced it's the best thing in Orlando, but what does that even mean since WDW sputtered out 2 decades ago?

 

[Magenta Panther]

The quote from the podcast: "that the funniest thing about talking with people at Disney theses days 'if we had just known George Lucas was going to put Star Wars on the market we would have never made this deal with James Cameron'"

I wonder if anyone at Diz is saying "If we had just known that Frozen was going to be a such a mega-phenomenon we wouldn't have thrown our money at George Lucas' already fully-developed and largely tapped-out franchise"?

 

[Magenta Panther]

Wait, Disney is regretting Avatarland???

 

[Magenta Panther]

Well the double whammy of an open Diagon Alley and the new Pottermore update getting into "Where are they now?" territory with the now 30 something crew at the 2014 Quidditch World Cup helped a lot.

Yeah, and I agree with Rowling about Harry and Hermione. So there!

 

[Magenta Panther]

I really hope we get the indoor Jedi show complete with Yoda animatronic.

And then the Yoda AA will break, and then TDO will use strobe lights and tell everyone it's a light saber battle.

 

[Magenta Panther]

I have lost some respect for you... Applebee's? Really?

Hey, dem Riblets is goooooooooood.

 

[Sneezy62]

Here's a question:

What do people think the point of My Disney Experience/My Magic Plus is?

I've always thought that Disney's "Next Generation" initiative was about an across-the-board series of improvements to the resort's information infrastructure to streamline reservations, tickets, and guest services while at the same time giving Disney an unprecedented array of crowd control information to give them an edge in managing their park and hotel logistics. Features like guest identification and tracking, allowing for individually-tailored attraction or character experiences would make Disney's parks stand out from the pack in a way traditional, 20th-century customer service simply wouldn't do.

That this resulted in things like the MagicBands and FastPassPlus are just an ancillary result of these deeper changes, and Disney, not wanting to let a good opportunity to crow about their park pass, is now touting them as "features".

Other people seem to perceive MagicBands and FastPassPlus as the ends, rather than the means of this change, and therefore conclude that the so-called advantages of these systems are not worth the price tag.

So who's right here? Are DME and FP+ the end or just a means to an end?

I don't think MDE, MagicCuffs and FP+ are simply ancillary. I think they are the means by which Disney gains more control over the guest. Nextgen is an attempt to make the parks more efficient. Efficiency in terms of gross revenue per employee. Get the guests to do more of the work that gives them a good experience and your paid CMs can handle more guests. Get your guests to spread themselves out better and your CMs can handle more guests. Get your guests to spend more per day individually? Bonus.

Is it working?

The thing is an efficient experience doesn't equal a more memorable experience. Interstate 40 is not the same experience as Route 66. Was Route 66 better than I-40? Probably not in real terms but many peoples memories of it are better, in part because of networked, like minded groups of cheerleaders that have propagated a nostalgic sense of Route 66 in the media (ETA: I probably meant collective consciousness not media in the strict sense. Funny how one corrupts the language without even trying ). My guess is that a Gallup NM self serve gas station makes more money and sells more Route 66 merchandise than a full service gas station did in the sixties and does it with fewer employees. I bet fewer "guests" have a fond story to tell about it though.

How does that work long term for a company that depends on stories?

 

[WDW1974]

Hey, what happened to y'all? I went to EPCOT today and sat under SSE (on the non-existent benches) and waited for everyone and no one (well, except for one CM pal that I ran into literally) showed.

Was something else going on in O-Town (I don't believe everyone was watching the powerhouse German performance in the World Cup. BTW, I bet my Angie is partying the morning away!)

I did rediscover something, though: EPCOT is amazingly pleasant when almost no one is there.

And six hours in a line for a theme park attraction ... ANY theme park attraction ... Um, no thanks. Life really is too short.

Who else is headed to UNI later today?

 

[WDW1974]

Of course, that is the whole point of the Twitverse and the Disney (and UNI) fan communities.

They want attention, often negative ... The angst really gets insane.

But I have an interactive wand that needs attention.

 

[invader]

If 74 wasn't 74 his posts would make him seem like he's nuts

 

[AEfx]

Are you kidding me? They're advertising with characters that are no longer in parks and, probably, not even known by anyone under 25 years old.

Take that Universal.

Who are exactly the target audience for the parents who actually will be utilizing the service.

I actually think this is pretty cool.
It's nice to see them using the Tailspin and Rescue Rangers characters for something, and with my generation being the ones currently planning and paying for Disney vacations for their kids it was clever of them to use them again.

+1!

Here's a question:

What do people think the point of My Disney Experience/My Magic Plus is?

I've always thought that Disney's "Next Generation" initiative was about an across-the-board series of improvements to the resort's information infrastructure to streamline reservations, tickets, and guest services while at the same time giving Disney an unprecedented array of crowd control information to give them an edge in managing their park and hotel logistics. Features like guest identification and tracking, allowing for individually-tailored attraction or character experiences would make Disney's parks stand out from the pack in a way traditional, 20th-century customer service simply wouldn't do.

That this resulted in things like the MagicBands and FastPassPlus are just an ancillary result of these deeper changes, and Disney, not wanting to let a good opportunity to crow about their park pass, is now touting them as "features".

Other people seem to perceive MagicBands and FastPassPlus as the ends, rather than the means of this change, and therefore conclude that the so-called advantages of these systems are not worth the price tag.

So who's right here? Are DME and FP+ the end or just a means to an end?

See, that's just it.

Folks USED to think all this was leading somewhere - then everyone kind of realized that no, it isn't. And it has such technical problems that at this point they are just trying to make what is there work. There are only so many extra 100's of millions they can throw into it. Disney may be Disney, but they sure ain't Apple.

In the end, it's all the guest is really going to see of any of this. There was talk at the beginning of say the talking Mickey head knowing who you were and saying your name when he met you (which I found rather creepy, honestly - he's not Santa, he shouldn't know your name before you've met).

Basically, this is one of the biggest IT black holes in history. Bringing reservations, etc. under one umbrella I'm sure sounded like a good thing on paper, but in truth the small inconveniences that happened internally when it wasn't are going to look like the Golden Age of Happy Days once this whole mess is over and done with after all the money they have thrown down the drain.

But I have an interactive wand that needs attention.

Ahem...this is a FAMILY board!!

 

[Next Big Thing]

From public announcement to opening day, it's going to take Disney six years to build Pandora.

This despite getting its professional derriere kicked by Universal, who has managed to open 2 lands and more attractions in less time, with even more on the way before a single guest ever sees a blue alien.

And we think Disney is capable of keeping up with Universal's construction pace exactly why?

You can say over again that it's going to take 6 years or whatever, but that's really not that long from the start of development to open. Actually pretty normal for Disney. Quicker than many things they've done actually.

They simply shouldn't have announced it so early.

 

[EpcoTim]

You can say over again that it's going to take 6 years or whatever, but that's really not that long from the start of development to open. Actually pretty normal for Disney. Quicker than many things they've done actually.

They simply shouldn't have announced it so early.

Epcot took what, 3 or 4 years?

 

[El Grupo]

Epcot took what, 3 or 4 years?

For construction, yes. However, development, design and planning began several years earlier.

But, I expect Disney could complete construction of a land far quicker if the focus wasn't so heavy on amortizing costs over several fiscal years.

 

[spacemt354]

Please let me try one more time.

Continuing with the example, let’s recall that 1000 people showed up at the exact same instant for Peter Pan, which has a capacity of 1000 guests/hour. In this case, the first person in line waited 0 while the last person waited 60 minutes. The average wait time was 30 minutes.

Now let’s say that Disney gave the last 500 a return time. Those people still waited 30 to 60 minutes; they simply didn't wait in the physical line.

Now, taking this to the next step to simulate the effects of FastPass+, let’s say Disney evenly distributed the return times across the entire hour.

The first person in the Standby line still waited 0.

However, the second person in the Standby line, instead of immediately boarding after the first person, now had to wait for someone with a return time. They had to wait longer than if there was no FastPass+.

Remember, that person with the FP+ return time represented the 501st person in line. They didn’t have to stand in line at all. If things were ‘fair’, then they should have waited 30 minutes.

Instead, they were allowed to ‘cut’ in line, reducing their effective wait time from 30 minutes to 3.6 seconds. (3600 sec/hr / 1000 guests/hr = 3.6 sec/guest)

The remaining 29 minutes and 56.4 seconds of wait time did not vanish. It had to go somewhere.

It did. It was distributed evenly among the remaining 499 guests in the Standby line. As a result of that one person ‘cutting’, everyone else in the Standby line waited an extra 3.6 seconds.

Now continue that pattern across the entire hour.

What you’ll find is that the person who was ‘supposed’ to wait only 30 minutes because they were the 500th person to enter the Standby line ended up waiting 60 minutes.

The cumulative effect was that the total wait time did not change.

However, what FastPass+ did was change how that wait time was distributed.

That 500th person who stayed in the Standby line should have waited only 30 minutes but ended up waiting 60 minutes.

To that person, FastPass+ made the Standby line longer.

That person lost 30 minutes because of FastPass+.

FP+ does not increase ride capacity. FP+ is a zero-sum game. For every gain, there has to be an offsetting loss.

If I waited only 10 minutes for Peter Pan because of FP+, then I might have had to wait 50 minutes for Splash Mountain because of FP+.

Without FP+, I might have ended up waiting 30 minutes for both. The net effect is that FP+ has gained me nothing but it has made the Standby lines longer at both Peter Pan and Splash Mountain.

The only ways to shorten wait times are to either reduce demand (e.g. raise ticket prices) or increase capacity (e.g. build attractions).

In recent years, WDW has done the former much more than the latter.

To be honest, I'm not sure I agree with this analogy completely. I think it's very well-articulated and thought out but I feel it may be too theoretical of an example to categorically claim that FP+ will increase wait times. I think there are several variable left out of this equation that could account for change in the results.

One of which is the time in which the FP+ time is distributed at. If your FP+ is scheduled for an hour when the park is at its highest crowd level of the day, and (at least from our observations) CMs tend to favor FP to standby when allowing the guests to proceed to either the ride or further waiting area. If a ride is at its peak crowd level and FP people are being allowed through, naturally the line will either feel, or actually be, longer than if the stand-by simply continues to move.

Another variable is that the example above makes it seem as if the return time is a definitive, exact time, and not a window of time. FP is an hour window. If the 501st person in line (who 'cut' the line in the analogy) got a return time of 10am-11am, he could have returned anywhere between that period. Let's say the 502nd person got a return time of 10:05am-11:05am.

If the 502nd person decides to ride at 10:05am and the 501st person decides to ride at 11:00am, doesn't the 501st person essentially 'wait' longer to ride than the 502nd, but on his own terms?

And doesn't the amount of time it takes to ride in the FP line depend on:
1) the length of the queue itself (in terms of walking distance)
2) the amount of people in the FP line
3) the amount of people in the Stand-by line

If FP+ are distributed in 5 min intervals, which I think they are, essentially there is an opportunity for people with 12 different FP time windows to either decide to ride at the same time, disperse evenly, or a mix of both. But again this is all dependent on the individual's choice of when to ride in that time interval. I feel it's not so much about cutting as it is an individual's decision when to ride combined with other factors that you can't assume remain constant.

Like for instance. If you have a FP+ for Space Mountain from 8-9pm and you know the parade is on at 9 which means lines usually dissipate right beforehand and during the parade, you decide to use FP+ at 8:40 so that you can ride quickly as Stand-by starts to get smaller, then get right back on stand-by because the line is short. Two for the price of one!

But an inexperienced Disney traveler with the same time window might decide to use it at 8 when the Stand-by line is 60 mins or so. That person will have waited in line (not a theoretical line, but an actual line) longer than the fellow who used his FP at a different time.

You'd get two different reviews of FP+ from those two guests simply because they used their FP+ at different times.

I think over time we are going to get conflicting reviews based on these variables. I don't think we will see the unanimous decision for either FP+ makes lines shorter or longer. It will be a mix of both, I feel.

And to me, this seems like the old FP system, with the only difference being that you can schedule your FPs two months in advance. Which golly gee, Disney really provided a game-changer with that one! Now I can reserve my magic band, where I'm eating and now where and when i'm riding all at the same time...2 Billion Dollars well spent

 

[seascape]

I rarely pull the "expert" card (not only do I rarely have occasion to do so here, but most especially because I have to go to the annoyance of doing this*), but I will in this case.

I am a Fraud Analyst. At a credit card company.

So forgive me for using actual facts vs. your guesstimates and "feeling" of security.

I'll restate my original premise: you haven't the foggiest clue what you are talking about.

*IF* Disney pays a minimum swipe fee, which I doubt they do (they'd be idiotic to not have a better deal with their credit card processor, and a processor wants Disney as a client so it's doubtful Disney actually pays the minimum - one way or another, it likely is waived), how often do you charge less than five bucks? Because most of them kick in at $4.99 or less. What's the cheapest thing at F&W, or at most places at WDW? $2.39 for a soda is about as cheap as it gets - so unless you and your wife are standing in line and paying separately, what's $2.39+$2.39+tax? Just over five bucks... (though you guys seem like special snowflakes it wouldn't surprise me if in fact that's what you will say you do).

As to that detailed listing Disney gives you - lot of good it does your credit card company. It's meaningless from a legal standpoint and while it may contain data you care about, it does nothing to investigate Fraud. In order to do that, you need info about authorization numbers, terminal IDs, etc. that won't show there.

The reason you enjoy protections on credit card transactions is because of laws that say so - and because it's all about upholding the law, not about being "magical". Should any dispute arise, since your credit card company does not have possession of the transaction data (every single card transaction generates an enormous amount of data that you as a consumer never see), it would need to be subpoenaed from Disney - as it would need to be notarized, and even if you gave permission for them to share info, a company as large as Disney isn't going to send out a notarized document without a legal request. A notarized affidavit from you might do it, but as much as Disney protects themselves from litigation it likely would still require a subpoena.

In any case, as I said, you would have an almost impossible time disputing any one of those transactions, and since you can't dispute the entire amount of the actual credit card charge, what would most likely happen is you would be refereed back to the merchant (Disney) as you are not technically disputing the charge but a portion of it, which most credit card companies would categorize as a "merchant issue" and not Fraud.


All that said, a billion and a half bucks is a lot of money. And even if you were totally correct, which I can categorically state you are not, it's still the same essential problem with MM+ as it was to begin with - designed to eek a few more cents out of the guests that already come, under the same misguided "the Orlando market is saturated" argument that Universal has, just today, yet again, proven to be absolutely false.


*Any posting made has not been approved, endorsed, or reviewed by the company I am employed with, they are in no way associated with any statements I may make, do not construe any information here as financial advice, please consult a certified financial professional for advice on your personal financial situation, yadda yadda...

As a credit card fraud expert you would be happy that I check my charges every day. In fact I have found fraudulent charges before they ever posted while they were pending and they were stopped. Too bad more people don't check their accounts daily. It would save everyone money because everyone pays for fraud. Now getting back to charges at food and wine and flower and garden. They offer lots if items for under 5.00. The strawberries at flower and garden were 3.95. The most expensive item I remember at food and wine was.the filet mignon and that was still under 10.00. And getting back to the credit card fees each company pays it is a fact that the larges the charges the lower the fees they pay so when I charge thousands of dollars a year in just a few charges.rather than hundreds of them are you still insisting that Disney doesn't save a penny. And I don't care about the protections from the credit card company because Disney will provide me a detailed billing statement and if anything is wrong they will take care of if. In fact in a April I did questions a charge and they had all the info right there to answer my question. My wife had forgotten a purchase but Disney didn't only tell me the store, it's exact location but what she bought. Can the credit card company do that? No.

 

[Next Big Thing]

Epcot took what, 3 or 4 years?

from what though? Walt first talked about his vision of an EPCOT in 1965 I believe.

Looking at today's Disney though, it's not out of the ordinary. Carsland was announced in 2007 and didn't open until 2012 and it had been in the planning stages long before that announcement, unlike Avatar.

I'm not saying that we should accept it, but these things do take time.

Universal is able to build fast because they put the necessary resources out that will be needed to get a project done quickly. Uni needs to have these rides opening fast, WDW doesn't. It's the sad truth. WDW just doesn't need to rely on adding new attractions like they once did because people come anyway, which is why they've remained stagnant.

On the flip side, Uni puts in a lot of these rides quickly partially because of how big of a reliance there is on screens with their attractions. Not saying screens are bad, they can do a lot of things AA's can't. But screens aren't always necessary and to have a well rounded experience, you need to have a nice variety in attraction offerings. I love Universal. Spider-Man is my favorite ride in Orlando. However, sometimes you just want a break. All these fast-paced, action 3-D rides can become tiring.

They need more rides like ET, that deal heavily with practical sets and can TRULY immerse you in an environment. Just look at Diagon Alley for a prime example. People are so impressed with it because of the physical sets and how real it feels. If it was just all screens, it wouldn't be so special now, would it?

Sorry, not sure how I ended up talking about Uni lol.

 

[Next Big Thing]

I have a feeling that guy doesn't know what the definition of stagnant is, and that he's just trying to use big words to prove a point. While I wouldn't say that Disney is the most stagnant it's ever been (correct me if I'm wrong, but was anything added in 2009 to WDW?), it's definitely stagnant, especially with regards to every park outside of the Magic Kingdom. If he's arguing that when Disney created 2 new gates, new hotels and a water park, that Disney was stagnant, then I don't know what to say. That's just epic troll level.

American Idol Experience

 

[AEfx]

As a credit card fraud expert you would be happy that I check my charges every day. In fact I have found fraudulent charges before they ever posted while they were pending and they were stopped. Too bad more people don't check their accounts daily. It would save everyone money because everyone pays for fraud. Now getting back to charges at food and wine and flower and garden. They offer lots if items for under 5.00. The strawberries at flower and garden were 3.95. The most expensive item I remember at food and wine was.the filet mignon and that was still under 10.00. And getting back to the credit card fees each company pays it is a fact that the larges the charges the lower the fees they pay so when I charge thousands of dollars a year in just a few charges.rather than hundreds of them are you still insisting that Disney doesn't save a penny. And I don't care about the protections from the credit card company because Disney will provide me a detailed billing statement and if anything is wrong they will take care of if. In fact in a April I did questions a charge and they had all the info right there to answer my question. My wife had forgotten a purchase but Disney didn't only tell me the store, it's exact location but what she bought. Can the credit card company do that? No.

/giggle

Two tries, that's all you get out of me. And they have been exhausted. Anything beyond that is a waste of my time, as it's clear you wouldn't know what a "fact" was if it bit you squarely on your rear end. I'm starting to get why other folks just roll their eyes, because you keep contradicting yourself and have no clear thought on anything - you don't care about real-world legal protection of your money from a credit card company, yet somehow a little rubber fantasy bracelet a corporation gives you makes you feel all safe and gives you a secure "feeling".

You keep clinging to that little band, my friend - Disney needs you. Badly. In fact, if I were you, I'd apply to Disney Moms or get on Disney's social media - they are desperate for folks like you to tow the line, because your breed is dwindling by the day.

 

[seascape]

so, according to you....the whole convenience for clients was a lie and it is only a way to save money via single individual swipes per buy vs aggregated swipe?
I wonder if this is planned also in the supposed "revenue growth" due of savings...?


It could go bad or it could go really good.
Just look at Pirates of the Caribbean.. It was a simple attraction with AA's and evolved into a behemoth.

so, according to you....the whole convenience for clients was a lie and it is only a way to save money via single individual swipes per buy vs aggregated swipe?
I wonder if this is planned also in the supposed "revenue growth" due of savings...?


It could go bad or it could go really good.
Just look at Pirates of the Caribbean.. It was a simple attraction with AA's and evolved into a behemoth.

How many times do I have to say I love next gen. I think it makes my trips more enjoyable. I'm not young and I don't run. I never could get a fast pass.for toy story before. Now I can. Of course it makes things better for me and many others and sure there are those who liked the old system better but that's because they used it in a way that was harder for the majority of guests. Too bad the old system is gone and will never come back. The new system is fair to all the guests. Those staying on property get 60 to make picks
Everyone else with tickets get 30 days and the daily customer is just like before same day selection. It's a fair system and limits everyone to 3 advanced selections. And again it does in my opinion make the trip better. The rest of this concerns was it financially worth it. I am glad they did it even if from a financial standpoint it isn't because I will enjoy my trips more. Maybe if the vast majority of people feel that way and not the 10 or so here who lambast it daily other parks will add a program like it. And if universal were to do it would they continue to complain? No because everyone could schedule their HP rides.