ProfSavage
Well-Known Member
Talk about moving away from the intended theme of the park... That was Project Gemini. We dodged a bullet when the economy tanked on that
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- Thread starter WDW1974
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Talk about moving away from the intended theme of the park... That was Project Gemini. We dodged a bullet when the economy tanked on that
Progress.City
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but it attempted to bring all of FW into a unified theme. Now, we can argue that the theme they chose was not the greatest of what they could have picked. Assuming (today) they can find a new (good) unifying theme for all of FW (including the pavilions inside and out), that's what I'm talking about.
ProfSavage
Well-Known Member
Nothing is in worse shape of an non-unifying theme than DHS. That's why its getting the overhaul. Not Epcot.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Precisely. I've just caught up on the whole thread, and I saw exactly one "Yippiee! I'm so excited!!" post.
I absolutely don't question the veracity of the info that has been posted - as of this moment. But things change, change quickly, and most of the time - they change for the worst. This isn't even the current past decade or so of complete deterioration and the parks bereft of new content, but the list of "thisclose" to being announced major expansions that have been sidetracked, abandoned, or severely scaled down is rather long throughout the history of the resort.
It's also the absurdly long time frames of just about everything involved, even in the "best" case scenario. Exacerbating this is that it's entirely about cooking the books and spreading costs out, while at the same time WDW is crapping huge loads of money into the sewer every day for the MM+ fiasco.
I guess I could have just summed it up with "I'll believe it when I see it". If I live that long...
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I could easily spend a whole day at EPCOT without eating anything more than a quick service meal or 2 and without drinking any alcohol. I won't do it. I like drinking way too much, but it would be easy to do. If you are a commando style tourist who runs from ride to ride and a good day is measured on how many rides you hit then really only MK works for you anyway.
But why take away the food and drinks which are a part of world showcase? That's an enjoyable part of the experience. It would be like saying AK wouldn't have enough to do if you took away the animals. World Showcase has had ethnic food and drinks from the various countries represented since the beginning. It's only in recent years that food and wine has become drunk town.
71jason
Well-Known Member
Take away F&W, who is buying a 1-day ticket to EPCOT? MK is iconic and strong contender for #1 park in America. AK may be a glorified zoo with a couple thrill rides, but BGT has ridden that train for years (albeit while doing both those aspects better than AK). DHS has RnRC, ToT, ST and TSM ... a mix of real-life and screen-based thrill rides, i.e. "the Universal model." EPCOT? If I'm not drinking around the world, where's $90 of value?
71jason
Well-Known Member
Only because Test Track and Soarin' have ridiculously inflated wait times.
Progress.City
Well-Known Member
HS needs expansion that also goes with a general overhaul to help unify its theme. Expansion first. Overhaul as a by-product of that expansion.
EC does not need expansion, but a drastic redevelopment, much like New Urbanism projects.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
You are so making me want to plan a trip there next year, but I've learned my lesson - they change the themes every year, so unless I'm there now, I'm out of luck and have to hope for a license renewal some year down the road.
I know the event caters to locals (in fact, that seems to be the problem based on what folks describe as the issues it has) which is why they change it up, but it's very difficult to plan ahead for folks that would be very interested in specific themes. I was crushed they didn't keep Freddy/Jason longer - I count that among my greatest theme park "I never got to see that" regrets. I made a trip for the next year but ended up not going to HHN once I saw they weren't there. I'm not in it just to go to whatever scare houses - but for things that I really love like 80's slasher icons and Aliens? Those are trip-booking words. But some years I look at the list of houses and think of all the crowds and mayhem and you couldn't pay me to attend. It's all about the IP for me.
Not my fault. I was receiving brain-washing signals through my Magical Tracking Band (Silver Shamrock style.)
Oh, wait....I wasn't wearing one.
Band free. That's how I roll.
LOL, speaking of 80's slashers...haha. That movie isn't nearly as bad as it's reputation suggests, it simply was stick in the wrong film series. Take away the name and it's a fun little flick.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Originally, several of the pavilions in the World Showcase were targeted to have attractions. For example, an animatronics and film show called "The Winds of Change" in the Japan Pavilion; a Rhine/Tauber/Ruhr River based water ride in Germany.
The World Showcase also was going include pavilions for U.A.E. (with a magic carpet ride) and Israel (with an amphitheater with performing musicians), with more countries to be added latter. At one point, a Costa Rica pavilion was planned.
Like the Magic Kingdom's Main Street U.S.A. before Michael Eisner corrupted it, the shops and stores were intended to showcase authentic wares in order to enhance the experience. They were not intended to be significant revenue generators, just cover the cost of operation.
Initially, alcoholic beverages were limited to the restaurants, which were to serve authentic cuisine without regard to profitability.
Many of these ideas were lost due to budgetary considerations in the early 1980s. Once Eisner took charge, attention shifted to other locations. Theme parks were built elsewhere while Epcot was considered 'complete'. (Certainly it was compared to DHS, DAK, and DCA.
)Once Paul Pressler (2000) and Jay Rasulo (2002) were put in charge of Disney's Parks & Resorts, the entire purpose of the World Showcase changed. The World Showcase became one big cash register. Booze was pushed any and everywhere. Food was dumbed down and Americanized in order to increase sales. Stores were judged based on revenue-per-square-foot.
Today's World Showcase functions primarily as one immense Oktoberfest.
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AEfx
Well-Known Member
That's exactly what they should have done in Orlando to begin with. The current cluster-frack, putting one of the most requested films into the parks, making the top of it a mini-weenie, and then once you get close to it being barred from even crossing the bridge unless you have booked a reservation to scarf down mass-produced fast food is easily one of the dumbest things that TDO has ever managed to accomplish, and that is not an easy feat given the bar of bone-headed decisions that have been made over the years.
Thank you! I'm not alone.
I'd be happier if it was just a landscaped park area with benches versus the noisy, out of theme, and just plan eyesore that is there now.
Replace it with a ride or three, and I'd get down on my knees in thanks.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
You are forgiven
At least from us common folks
Well naturally, LOL. That's generally what folks do in similar settings - if several folks go into a closed room at a party, they generally are doing one of two things...gossiping and kvetching about people not in the room is the other one.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Sure (although there's only one closed pavilion -- not plural -- unless you consider the Odyssey a pavilion). But that just reflects what should be done to improve on Epcot. Epcot is, in its current form, still a quality park to visit even if it falls short of its peak condition.
DHS and DAK are OTOH in shambles compared to Epcot. Right now the most significant investment should be -- and thankfully is -- directed at those parks first.
Progress.City
Well-Known Member
My bad. I consider Imagination a closed pavilion because it's a ghost of its former self.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Epcot will be fine for 4-5 years while DHS & DAK are saved.
Of course, Epcot will never be EPCOT CENTER ever again. Don't pin your hopes on that.
justavoice
Active Member
I did see something on Friday at Epcot that shocked me and my family of four. We r sitting on bench beside door to kamel shoppe in Germany when a masked late 40's couple start talking to a custodian. Next thing disney employe picks flower from hanging basket and gives to lady who then kisses guy multiple times on his cheek and then moves to lips. All in front of us who are sort of trapped without making a scene to leave. Hoped kids did not understand what was going on and felt causing scene would draw kids attention and questions. No problem with causing a scene but do not want to spoil my kids innocence. Alcohol was a driving scene for couple.
I enjoy alcohol but really is getting out of control at Epcot. Also felt light levels where lower than past trips. If dark u can not see the problems behind the curtain.
BrerJon
Well-Known Member
It's worth keeping an eye on the various Universal and Horror Night message boards to see if properties you like are being talked about, as house themes tend to leak or be announced several months beforehand, so there's usually a good chunk of time for planning a trip when the house themes are known, even if they aren't all fully revealed until a few weeks before the event.
I always find a house I enjoy even if none of the themes strike me at first. This year though, as most have said, AvP was the no-brainer best house for me - the theming was so tight, the aliens were great and it was genuinely scary.
Progress.City
Well-Known Member
I know and I'm not happy about it, but, yes, I know...
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Overly expensive rides is a temporary crutch, not real saving.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Except for all the attractions at Epcot. Which are more numerous and better than what is at DHS and DAK.
I'd match up Spaceship Earth/Soarin'/Living with the Land/Test Track with the any four attractions at DAK or DHS. And that's just the best attractions -- Epcot still has good supporting rides beyond that like M:S, Sum of all Thrills, Grand Fiesta, Maelstrom (well sigh) and Nemo plus great shows (American Adventure, Turtle Talk, the films in WS) and street entertainment that blows away secondary offerings at DHS or DAK. And if you just like "exploring" you can check out some thoughtful exhibits at Innoventions or the various pavilions in World Showcase.
Notice I didn't even mention anything about food or drink or festivals.
Again, no one is saying that Epcot doesn't have problems. No one is saying that there shouldn't be investment at the park. But it is in far far better shape than either DHS or DAK.