Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
I should get started, I never set foot on a chuck e cheese. a free prize would be the best excuse!
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The Spirited Back Nine ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
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Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
you blame the fat people.
There should be disclaimers "People with overweight, walking problems, vertigo and other issues, are not recommended to board the monorail second floor.. proceed at your own risk".
I still cannot fathom how ridiculous the liability thing is in the US.
You could break a nail and then some dude will claim "MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN EMOTIONAL DAMAGE!". even if the person broke his nail due of total blatant stupidity(aka Darwin Award seeker)
Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
nuke the contemporary and rebuilt it bigger.. better.. taller!
Smiddimizer
Well-Known Member
Oh, 'New Horizons'. If we can dream it...well, we can keep dreaming.
Us millennials really did miss all the good things....o-kay, back to Flappy Bird.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Go on your birthday. (not kidding)
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
How can anyone suggest that the Magic Kingdom has become too crowded:
Or Epcot:
Or DHS:
Or DAK:
Yes, I know, a photo is no proof but crowds like these have become increasingly common at all 4 theme parks throughout the entire year.
Under CEO Bob Iger, WDW attendance has increased at a compound annual rate of 2.1%. In his 9 years as CEO, comparatively little has been added yet there are another 9 million gate clicks at WDW.
Projecting that same growth rate to 2025 suggests that WDW could have another 14 million gate clicks by 2025.
Throw in exciting additions at DAK and DHS, and WDW attendance growth could be even higher.
WDW's current theme parks and infrastructure simply cannot support another 14+ million visitors annually.
By 2025, WDW will need a 5th theme park.
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
A large part of the monorail problem is that guests needing the express loop to the parking lot keep getting on the resort loop. Not only does this mean that the line at the Magic Kingdom becomes longer, but at the Contemporary stop the trains spend longer at the station as the attendants try to squeeze passengers into trains that arrive full.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Show me saturated utilization across the property.. not just crowds.
Projecting that same growth rate to 2025 suggests that WDW could have another 14 million gate clicks by 2025.
That infers linear growth with no impediments though... which isn't necessarily a good projection. And are you attracting additional guests or just more visits from the same? Are we saturating the potential user base, or is there a large portion that is untapped due to financial or travel limits? There is much more to how to model who you are getting and what you need to appease them than simply scaling a top line number you already have.
WDW is already a property that most people can't absorb in 7-10 days. WDW may not necessarily be the best place to try to add that many more guests.
And in the current mindset that WDW brainwashes people with.. I really don't think a 5th gate is a good idea unless it's a separate different kind of experience that is ticketed on its own and expands the demographic.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Walt Disney World is built around a select few marquee experiences. So long as that organizational pattern remains the crowds remain.How can anyone suggest that the Magic Kingdom has become too crowded:
View attachment 76462
Or Epcot:
View attachment 76465
Or DHS:
View attachment 76461
Or DAK:
View attachment 76464
Yes, I know, a photo is no proof but crowds like these have become increasingly common at all 4 theme parks throughout the entire year.
Under CEO Bob Iger, WDW attendance has increased at a compound annual rate of 2.1%. In his 9 years as CEO, comparatively little has been added yet there are another 9 million gate clicks at WDW.
Projecting that same growth rate to 2025 suggests that WDW could have another 14 million gate clicks by 2025.
Throw in exciting additions at DAK and DHS, and WDW attendance growth could be even higher.
WDW's current theme parks and infrastructure simply cannot support another 14+ million visitors annually.
By 2025, WDW will need a 5th theme park.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I had a picture of that, but I ran out of room on my phone and had to delete it
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
There in lies the lies. The majority of guests never could use "legacy FP" because it didn't allow the majority to do so. The only way they knew at the time how to keep the FP line manageable was to limit the number of FP's that were given out. Without that limit, the FP line would have been the longest and the Standby line would have been much shorter in physical length, but, not in actual time in the line. But then the FP line would have become the standby line. Not everyone can board at the same time.
Not only did FP create the "commando" mentality, but, it also divided "equal" paying guests into two groups, the have's and the have nots. Almost like a mini-class structure that created a lot of anger in the standby lines that never existed previous to FP. The defensive argument was always... what's stopping them from getting a fastpass themselves, it's free to everyone. Well, the fact that they did not exist for everyone is the reason. Even if everyone that was going to visit the park that day showed up at rope drop, not everyone would have gotten one, because it just didn't work that way. It was limited in the numbers distributed regardless of how many people might want one. I have said it before and I will say it again, the magic left Disney the day that they instituted Fastpass.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Despite the mindset of certain mid-level executives, WDW is not about optimizing production.
It's about providing customers with fun vacations.
The number one impediment to enjoying today's WDW are crowds. There is a direct correlation between crowd level and people's level of enjoyment. It's why families pull their kids out of school, why WDW's 'slow season' is almost nonexistent today.
Providing 'fun' vacations to its customers is WDW's key to winning repeat business. It's the key to revenue growth.
Disney needs to stop treating 'Guests' like inventory on a production line.
Talking about WDW's "saturated utilization" is representative of exactly what's wrong with today's TDO.
When DAK opened in 1998 and WDW attendance increased by only 2 million, executives in Burbank thought Orlando had peaked. As a result, Disney abandoned major WDW expansions for over a decade.
Since then, WDW attendance is up over 10 million, far above Disney's original projection used to justify DAK.
It's always possible that WDW's attendance going forward could flatline. It's also possible that new properties based on Avatar, Toy Story, and Star Wars could lead to explosive growth, growth that could be closer to the 4% historically achieved when WDW actually added exciting attractions, the growth that WDW realized over the last 2 years with Frozen-based offerings and a New Fantasyland.
A 2.1% long-term projected growth rate based on recent historical data represents a reasonable middle ground.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Sure they could. FP was available for anyone who wanted to use it or knew about it. There was enough capacity on all but the most crowded days at MK for everyone to get at least 1 FP so in theory everyone could have used it at least once a day. If everyone used 1 FP a lot of the commandos would have been shut out from using multiple FPs the rest of the day. In a park like DHS there was not enough capacity for everyone to get TSMM, but that's being fixed now.
I agree about the haves and the have nots. That's really my point. With FP a limited number of "commandos" were running around the parks pulling as many fast passes as they could get their hands on. With FP+, which I consider to be the socialization of FP, that dynamic is significantly reduced. A lot more guests are making their reservations in advance so a much larger percentage of guests are now using the system. Under FP you had a lot less guests using the system, but some of those that did were using 10+ FPs a day. What this results in is even more people "on a schedule" then you ever had with regular FP. A lot of times those people will skip past some minor entertainment elements to make their "appointments".
I don't blame Disney completely for the mentality, but they are certainly not helping things.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Saturating utilization of the existing parks means filling in the massive gaps that make travel such a huge component of time spent at Walt Disney World. Giving people surprise diversions from where the pack is going add to the fun. This would also make it acceptable to miss something, because the loss is less noticed due to being replaced with other experiences.
fillerup
Well-Known Member
To be fair, you didn't specify the resort. You just said "nothing ever comes back"
On WoL, if Inside Out is a big success which I'm sure it will be I doubt Disney would make more money with it as a festival center rather than having it open 365 days a year and tied to Pixar. How much money do they make off of it exactly during each festival? Any kind of ballpark figure?
Back of the envelope math on this.
F&W festival: 7 paid seminars per day x 100 guests x $15 ticket x 55 days = $577,500 gross revenue (if every seat is filled, which they're not). Add in some sales from the wine shop, gift shop and beverage counter and you have maybe $1M gross over the length of the festival.
And the seminars are pretty labor intensive to boot. Dedicated staff of about 8 to 10 CMs for each venue.
The unknown for me is that I was told several years ago that the wineries pay big bucks to do the tastings - up to 10K. Don't have any idea if that's true.
Flower & Garden - all seminars are free so you have gift shop and book sales. A drop in the bucket in my estimation.
IMO, the economic value of WoL as a Festival Center isn't all that impressive.
Next Big Thing
Well-Known Member
Obviously the scooters would be first floor only. How would you propose even getting a scooting up said stairs (in a reasonable amount of time for the monorail to remain efficient)?
tenchikiss
Active Member
Does someone in the know know what is up with the Baymax and Hiro meet and greet? I just read on another site that Kenny the Pirate (character expert as he were) is reporting their days are numbered. I just don't see that happening as Ralph and Vanellope were there for a few years. The movie is still in theaters and did quite well. Why go through all the effort of rethemeing the queue and making a Baymax outfit if the greet would only be around for a few months? Now I am worried I might have missed out as we only went to Hollywood Studios for the Christmas decorations this week and won't be back til February.
Travel Junkie
Well-Known Member
How can anyone suggest that the Magic Kingdom has become too crowded:
Under CEO Bob Iger, WDW attendance has increased at a compound annual rate of 2.1%. In his 9 years as CEO, comparatively little has been added yet there are another 9 million gate clicks at WDW.
Projecting that same growth rate to 2025 suggests that WDW could have another 14 million gate clicks by 2025.
Throw in exciting additions at DAK and DHS, and WDW attendance growth could be even higher.
WDW's current theme parks and infrastructure simply cannot support another 14+ million visitors annually.
By 2025, WDW will need a 5th theme park.
2013 is the first year MK surpassed 1991 attendance figures (18.6 millions this year vs 18 million in 1991.) Predicting another 14 million gate clicks by 2025 is a bit optimistic as attendance figures fluctuate up and down all the time.
I agree infrastructure and park capacity must be upgraded to meet current demand and have an eye on projecting meeting future demand. The focus in the near term should be transportation and other infrastructure within the resort while building out the current 4 parks. That would certainly go beyond 2025. Only after large scale infrastructure improvements including a more efficient system for transporting guests around the property can you look at adding even more places for them to go.
For those interested here is an attendance chart. As a side note although this is the info published by TEA we have access to, don't believe MK outdraws TDL for a second. No way.
source: http://www.scottware.com.au/theme/feature/atend_disparks.htm
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Explosives?
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I was just thinking bigger tires...but that would work too