The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[MickeyKimmy]

I think it depends on the reasoning involved though. If it was a decision made because it "fit" the vacationing habits of the buyer, and most importantly if it was paid in full at purchase time, then I have no issue with that decision. If it was made for strictly "magical,pixie-dusting" reasons, and if the buyer agreed to pay exorbitant interest rates, then there's a certain amount of questionable sanity there, don't you think?

No, I would call that a potentially bad financial decision at most. I know a lot of perfectly sane, very smart people who are not very good at handling their finances. There are a lot of people who do not have mental health issues who make some very poor financial decisions.

I have been a member here a very long time. I enjoy reading all the interesting threads, but as you can see I don't post that often. I felt compelled to jump into this thread though just to point out that just because you don't agree with someone's choices doesn't make them wrong or insane. Everyone has their own reasons.

 

[cw1982]

No, I would call that a potentially bad financial decision at most. I know a lot of perfectly sane, very smart people who are not very good at handling their finances. There are a lot of people who do not have mental health issues who make some very poor financial decisions.

I have been a member here a very long time. I enjoy reading all the interesting threads, but as you can see I don't post that often. I felt compelled to jump into this thread though just to point out that just because you don't agree with someone's choices doesn't make them wrong or insane. Everyone has their own reasons.

I don't think anyone here was trying to diagnose mental illness. Another popular definition of insanity is "extreme foolishness or irrationality." Many here would argue that, if DVC is not a financially sound decision, then buying in is indeed an irrational choice.

I could see how you might make the jump to mental illness when people start mentioning pixie dust addiction, but realistically, how many times do you hear people say that they are addicted to something in common discussion without having a chemical dependency on whatever they are talking about? People say they're addicted to a particular brand of soft drinks. Or they're addicted to a certain type of music. Or they're addicted to the smell of a certain lotion or even bubble gum (silly I know, but my high school students say crap like that all the time). In all fairness, though, on some level addiction does cause irrational thought, right? Do you not agree that there are those out there who are such die-hard Disney fans that they will make irrational decisions in order to feel like they own a piece of Disney, even if it's not a true ownership?

My point here is that not everything in these threads needs to be taken literally. A great deal of this is very casual discussion, so reading too much into word choice will often end with someone getting an entirely different interpretation than what the OP intended.

 

[Nemo14]

No, I would call that a potentially bad financial decision at most. I know a lot of perfectly sane, very smart people who are not very good at handling their finances. There are a lot of people who do not have mental health issues who make some very poor financial decisions.

true - I'm related to a few. closely. But I think the mental health issues previously mentioned have more to do with blind faith in the Disney brand, rather than a lack of financial savvy.

 

[John]

@ParentsOf4 is it not the reason that occupancy will see a rebound is the fact that there will be fewer rooms available? As mentioned this doesn't really mean the margins are up....correct? Just means they lower the number of rooms to meet demand. And if demand continues to slip? What then? Because even though occupancy is up ( but not really) the rate for the rooms are not going to go down. Infact they might even offer less discounts. So its reasonable to say the prices will go up. You say its a good thing that they are converting rooms to DVC. My question is for who?

 

[crispy]

82.354% +/_ 1.63

Of course, 92% of statistics are made up anyway.

 

[crispy]

I really think this is a ridiculous thing to say. Just because someone buys something that you do not see the value in, does not make them mentally feeble or mean they lack common sense. There are a lot of things that people spend their money on that seem stupid or not worth it to me, but I don't automatically think there is something wrong with them because I don't agree with their choices.

I don't think that everyone who buys DVC is crazy by a longshot. Some very savvy posters on this very thread own DVC, and I wouldn't think any of us would question their mental health. That being said, I have seen many examples of people who put their financial lives in jeopardy to afford Disney vacations and DVC. I haven't seen many posters like that on this board, but on others, I met people who maxed out credit cards, delayed paying their mortgage or other essential bills, etc, to have their Disney fix. On one memorable thread, one group had a challenge going to feed their families (sometimes large families!) on $10 a day/$70 a week in order to afford that Disney vacation (Let's live like paupers for 51 weeks out of the year so we can splurge on a deluxe hotel and food at WDW for week! Yeah, no thanks!). But hey, at least they were actually paying for their trips. We won't even talk about the few who did blow-out trips on credit and bought tons of Disney dollars beforehand to spend and then filed bankruptcy (but kept their DVC!).

Of course, this type of obsession us not limited to Disney or WDW, but it is scary to see it played out.

 

[PlaneCrazy1978]

true - I'm related to a few. closely. But I think the mental health issues previously mentioned have more to do with blind faith in the Disney brand, rather than a lack of financial savvy.

I like WDW a lot. It's a lot of fun. But I know my limitations on what I can and cannot afford. I do have DVC, and do I make a payment, but I can swing the payment. I don't have $25 gs laying around, so I had to finance. I also know I can go to WDW once or twice a year and that's it - Going more often than that is not financially feasible for me. Does that make me irrational? No. Does it make me feeble minded? No. I also like a decent, dependable cars and I financed one of those too. Am I addicted to a car that is dependable and nice? No. Same thing with going to Disney. I know what I can afford and what works for me.

I have a problem when people try to tie my financial savviness with my ability to enjoy Disney. The two are unrelated, in my case. I like Disney, but not enough to go bankrupt. I do what I can to have an enjoyable vacation.

 

[ParentsOf4]

All I can say is wait until 8/5/14 and we will see Disney's quarterly statement. How Disney is doing is graded everyday on wall street and reports have to be issued quarterly.

Don't be too sure about Wall Street's grading system.

Look at how they 'graded' Enron:

There are dozens of other companies that followed similar paths.

TWDC is no Enron.

However, Walt Street's grading system is fundamentally flawed.

 

[PlaneCrazy1978]

I think it depends on the reasoning involved though. If it was a decision made because it "fit" the vacationing habits of the buyer, and most importantly if it was paid in full at purchase time, then I have no issue with that decision. If it was made for strictly "magical,pixie-dusting" reasons, and if the buyer agreed to pay exorbitant interest rates, then there's a certain amount of questionable sanity there, don't you think?

One other thing. I don't pay an exorbitant interest rate on my loan, because I have VERY good credit. Because I'm financially responsible.

Yeah, I agree, if you have a 450 credit score and you are going to get a loan for DVC, maybe that's not such a great idea. You probably need to look at your priorities.

 

[MickeyKimmy]

I don't think that everyone who buys DVC is crazy by a longshot. Some very savvy posters on this very thread own DVC, and I wouldn't think any of us would question their mental health. That being said, I have seen many examples of people who put their financial lives in jeopardy to afford Disney vacations and DVC. I haven't seen many posters like that on this board, but on others, I met people who maxed out credit cards, delayed paying their mortgage or other essential bills, etc, to have their Disney fix. On one memorable thread, one group had a challenge going to feed their families (sometimes large families!) on $10 a day/$70 a week in order to afford that Disney vacation (Let's live like paupers for 51 weeks out of the year so we can splurge on a deluxe hotel and food at WDW for week! Yeah, no thanks!). But hey, at least they were actually paying for their trips. We won't even talk about the few who did blow-out trips on credit and bought tons of Disney dollars beforehand to spend and then filed bankruptcy (but kept their DVC!).

Of course, this type of obsession us not limited to Disney or WDW, but it is scary to see it played out.

Ok, yes this is pretty extreme. I agree when you are jeopardizing your house to pay for your DVC you have a problem. I really don't think the majority of DVC members fall into this category though. Unless I only know the normal ones!!

 

[seascape]

I don't think that everyone who buys DVC is crazy by a longshot. Some very savvy posters on this very thread own DVC, and I wouldn't think any of us would question their mental health. That being said, I have seen many examples of people who put their financial lives in jeopardy to afford Disney vacations and DVC. I haven't seen many posters like that on this board, but on others, I met people who maxed out credit cards, delayed paying their mortgage or other essential bills, etc, to have their Disney fix. On one memorable thread, one group had a challenge going to feed their families (sometimes large families!) on $10 a day/$70 a week in order to afford that Disney vacation (Let's live like paupers for 51 weeks out of the year so we can splurge on a deluxe hotel and food at WDW for week! Yeah, no thanks!). But hey, at least they were actually paying for their trips. We won't even talk about the few who did blow-out trips on credit and bought tons of Disney dollars beforehand to spend and then filed bankruptcy (but kept their DVC!).

Of course, this type of obsession us not limited to Disney or WDW, but it is scary to see it played out.

Timeshares should only be purchased for cash. Loans for timeshares have higher interest and since vacations are a luxury expense and people can lose their jobs putting your finances at risk is not a good idea. Disney is not the high pressure sales but even low pressure is more than some can take. But at least Disney is not westgate. I have read stories about westgate and they are the worst. BTW do they still have the sales both over at Uni that was there under the prior ownership? I think comcast is smart enough not to associate with them.

 

[PlaneCrazy1978]

Who in this thread was trying to tie YOUR financial savviness with your ability to enjoy Disney? I didn't see anyone calling you out. There were some general statements made, but no one has said that every DVC member is like that, only that we know people who fit that description and own DVC. It sounds to me like you're taking something personally that was not meant to be about you, if you're making your decisions responsibly.

True. Or maybe it has to do with a few people on here and how they word things. I'd like to hear from the OP and their intent on calling people feeble minded.

Like you can see, I don't post often. I enjoy reading the threads. There's lots of great conversation here. I know a lot of posts are made with generalities and opinions in mind, but a few particular posts were insulting and I had to speak up. I'll be quiet now cause I know we don't want these threads to go off topic.

 

[Stevek]

I think the point you miss is that @WDW1974 was saying that Disney is actually actively searching out the "mentally feeble" as they are easy prey for the DVC guides selling them future memories.

I think Disney is actively searching out anyone who is willing to buy and quite honestly, the easiest prey is those that are a) either at the resort or b) have already bought into Disney in a larger way through AP's, etc. It's no different then how they try (or at least used to) sell you on another cruise while you are there. Best time to catch someone is when their mindset is in Disney mode. I would say that the "mentally feeble" are those that truly have no business buying due to their current state of finances but give into the temptation without thinking of the consequences. Those people clearly exist, who knows how many, but there are also a lot of people that have made a thoughtful financial decision that is affordable to them. For us, it's just not appealing whether we are covered with pixie dust or not.

 

[baymenxpac]

my family owns DVC, but we bought in 1993. that included free park passes until the end of the century (imagine that. i bet those who bought in after 2000 can't), a resort that was constantly refreshed and refurbed, and a per point cost that is on track with what's on re-sale.

i think people who buy anything that's not saratoga points or re-sale points are either absolutely A) insane, B) wealthy, C) brazen about their disregard for money, or D) both A & C.

i have a friend who lives in jersey. he bought BLT points (at $150 per point), aulani points (!!!!! WHY?!?!), and was about to close on GF points last time we spoke. he has a family of five and is not wealthy. i...don't even know what to attribute that to, but i think that's coo coo for cocoa puffs.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

my family owns DVC, but we bought in 1993. that included free park passes until the end of the century (imagine that. i bet those who bought in after 2000 can't), a resort that was constantly refreshed and refurbed, and a per point cost that is on track with what's on re-sale.

i think people who buy anything that's not saratoga points or re-sale points are either absolutely A) insane, B) wealthy, C) brazen about their disregard for money, or D) both A & C.

i have a friend who lives in jersey. he bought BLT points (at $150 per point), aulani points (!!!!! WHY?!?!), and was about to close on GF points last time we spoke. he has a family of five and is not wealthy. i...don't even know what to attribute that to, but i think that's coo coo for cocoa puffs.

Why Saratoga? (Just curious)

 

[baymenxpac]

i also want to add this: this prevailing sense of false elitism in DVC is very, very real. many members get off on telling you how many points they have, where they own, etc. the most common questions i heard my parents asked at the pool or in the hot tub when they struck up casual conversations with fellow members were: "how many points do you have?" or "where do you own?"

one of my favorite things would be when my mother would screw with people and tell them we owned some fabricated outlandish number points just to see them squirm.

EDIT: for a typo.

 

[baymenxpac]

Why Saratoga? (Just curious)

frankly, because it's the cheapest buy in.

 

[MickeyKimmy]

I see some of the more hostile posts towards me have disappeared (been deleted?, thanks mods?) Unfortunately, that is why after being a member of these forums for 10 years I rarely post, and even more rarely to the News and Rumors forum. I was simply trying to ask WDW1974 to clarify the meaning of his post as it came across directed towards all DVC members, and I found it to be offensive. I was hoping for him to clarify that he was not directing that statement to all DVC members, only a very small minority. I have in the past enjoyed reading WDW1974's posts as he obviously has a unique perspective.

Thanks to Nemo14 for the interesting and respectful discussion which is how conversations on these boards should be. I feel bad for those of you who cannot have a discussion without resorting to being so negative and hostile.

 

[flynnibus]

the most common questions i heard my parents asked at the pool or in the hot tub when they struck up casual conversations with fellow members were: "how many points do you have?" or "where do you own?"

and maybe because... It's a topic people share in common? An easy conversation topic that you know the other party has knowledge/interest in?

Of course it's going to be a popular topic. Just like when you are a on a cruise ship people ask "is this your first cruise?" or "what other cruises have you tried?"

It's common ground.

 

[WDW1974]

Please tell me this will be a chapter in your book. Even with Orwell-speak, can't believe a major corporation acknowledges something like this.

(Would also be curious to hear your news about Golden Oak--at least a post if it doesn't warrant a thread.)

I would put it in ... I do wonder how much pressure and how many dirty tricks Disney would try to prevent it from ever seeing the light of day. It honestly is a huge reason why I haven't pursued it. (FYI, I almost authored a book on WDW's history about 7-8 years ago for a MAJOR publisher -- not a self-publishing deal. But David Koenig put out his book first, my copy was -- true story -- stolen by a Lifestyler, and then the economy completely killed any chance of it being worth my time.)

I am not sure they acknowledge it, hence my use of 'coiffed' ... if you use the right language you can make anything sound much more pleasant. Disney flat out knows it has addicts, many who have true mental illness. How in the world could it ever help them to acknowledge that they take advantage of that?

I want to hold my Golden Oak info close to me right now. I'm not sure exactly what value it has, so I'm not feeling like giving it away (insert your own fanboi/Imagineer joke) for free.