The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

DocMcHulk

Well-Known Member
@WDW1974 I figured out why you cant book a hotel room as a "walk up":
mhfjje840001-613x409.jpg
 

merry68

Active Member
I'm not DVC and I've tried to read up on it, but I do have a question regarding reselling.

- does Disney have first right of refusal if a DVC member decides to sell?

-if so, does this apply to every DVC contract, regardless of whether the DVC was purchased direct from Disney or bought resale?

The reason I ask is I've been wondering just how much Disney is involved in the resale market and just how profitable is the resale market.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I'm not DVC and I've tried to read up on it, but I do have a question regarding reselling.

- does Disney have first right of refusal if a DVC member decides to sell?

-if so, does this apply to every DVC contract, regardless of whether the DVC was purchased direct from Disney or bought resale?

The reason I ask is I've been wondering just how much Disney is involved in the resale market and just how profitable is the resale market.
It applies to all resales. There is no obvious patern to when they exercise. Obviously if someone offered to sell for $1 they would jump in.
 

Hyperspace Hoopla

Well-Known Member
I'm not DVC and I've tried to read up on it, but I do have a question regarding reselling.

- does Disney have first right of refusal if a DVC member decides to sell?

-if so, does this apply to every DVC contract, regardless of whether the DVC was purchased direct from Disney or bought resale?

The reason I ask is I've been wondering just how much Disney is involved in the resale market and just how profitable is the resale market.
Yes - after the contract between the seller and the buyer is signed and final, the agent sends the contract to Disney. Disney has the right to purchase the points from the seller at the rate negotiated, or let the sale go through as is. ....and yes, this applies to every DVC contract.

Note that a few years ago Disney tried to make resale points less valuable by limiting some of the benefits enjoyed by those who purchase direct. Basically, resales can't use points for Disney Cruises, or to stay at other non-DVC Disney hotels. Prices dipped briefly (that's when I grabbed my SSR points for $52), but then people realized that no one used their DVC points this way anyway, and prices went back up.
 
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merry68

Active Member
Yes - after the contract between the seller and the buyer is signed and final, the agent sends the contract to Disney. Disney has the right to purchase the points from the seller at the rate negotiated, or let the sale go through as is. ....and yes, this applies to every DVC contract.

Note that a few years ago Disney tried to make resale points less valuable by limiting some of the benefits enjoyed by those who purchase direct. Basically, resales can't use points for Disney Cruises, or to stay at other non-DVC Disney hotels. Prices dipped briefly (that's when I grabbed my SSR points for $52), but then people realized that no one used their DVC points this way anyways, and prices went back up.


Thanks. I guess I'm trying to sort out just how the Suits can squeeze every penny out of DVC. And with announced expansion, I just wondered if Disney made profit on resales.

If so, it further cements the decision to expand and convert hotel rooms.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I'm not DVC and I've tried to read up on it, but I do have a question regarding reselling.

- does Disney have first right of refusal if a DVC member decides to sell?

-if so, does this apply to every DVC contract, regardless of whether the DVC was purchased direct from Disney or bought resale?

Yes and Yes... Disney holds Right of first refusal on ALL DVC contract resales. The DVC community does a lot of crunching over trying to track and predict Disney ROFR activity.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Thanks. I guess I'm trying to sort out just how the Suits can squeeze every penny out of DVC. And with announced expansion, I just wondered if Disney made profit on resales.

Yup they can... they can ROFR a sale at say $65/pt.. and then put it back into the pool to sell direct at $100/pt, etc.
 

GrammieBee

Well-Known Member
Fifty pages later a good share of these posts are still exceedingly depressing. They make you wonder why anyone in their right mind would ever want to go back to WDW again, let alone stay in one of their hotels. Horrors!

While there is much truth in what is being said, do we have to let the negatives completely obscure what is positive about WDW? Or, aren't there any positives anymore?
 

Nemo14

Well-Known Member
Fifty pages later a good share of these posts are still exceedingly depressing. They make you wonder why anyone in their right mind would ever want to go back to WDW again, let alone stay in one of their hotels. Horrors!

While there is much truth in what is being said, do we have to let the negatives completely obscure what is positive about WDW? Or, aren't there any positives anymore?

There are plenty of positives, but most of them date back 20 or more years.
 

Brian Noble

Well-Known Member
The reason I ask is I've been wondering just how much Disney is involved in the resale market and just how profitable is the resale market.
Others answered your ROFR applicability questions, but I wanted to address this one. Across the timeshare industry, a good rule of thumb is that cost of construction (acquiring the land and actually building the thing) should be no more than 20% of the total sales revenue. In other words, a brand new shiny stick-built resort selling at (say) $165/pt should cost no more than $33/pt to build. What's more, it is easier to sell and market brand new shiny resorts than it is for existing resorts that have been around for a while, though there is some glideway for existing owners to upgrade.

Interestingly, sales and marketing costs between 25-50% of total sales volume. That's because timeshare is a product that is sold, not bought. There is some organic demand, but it's small in the grand scheme of things, even for DVC.

Note that a few years ago Disney tried to make resale points less valuable by limiting some of the benefits enjoyed by those who purchase direct. Basically, resales can't use points for Disney Cruises, or to stay at other non-DVC Disney hotels. Prices dipped briefly (that's when I grabbed my SSR points for $52), but then people realized that no one used their DVC points this way anyway, and prices went back up.

If you look at the ROFR threads carefully, you'll notice that the price dipped before the restrictions were put in place. They dipped in reaction to a flood of contracts entering the market during the economic downturn. The restrictions weren't mean to depress the resale market, instead they were a way to help establish the value of a developer purchase given the increasing spread between developer and resale prices. Indeed, as the economy has recovered, resale prices have somewhat as well. They haven't gotten back to where they were, but they are better.
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
Fifty pages later a good share of these posts are still exceedingly depressing. They make you wonder why anyone in their right mind would ever want to go back to WDW again, let alone stay in one of their hotels. Horrors!

While there is much truth in what is being said, do we have to let the negatives completely obscure what is positive about WDW? Or, aren't there any positives anymore?

The thread is about one topic that most seem to see as something negative (I would agree with that assessment personally). And since the owner and the moderators of this website asked everyone to stay on one topic in this thread, that's what is being discussed. There are plenty of positives being discussed all over this website in other threads. And I think plenty of us read more than just this one thread on this website, so we do get a varied picture.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
But it also has a firm date on it when it's absolutely worthless.

To be fair, I said "functional" investment - as in something they can use that does not automatically depreciate in value like a DVC membership. Second, I realize that the membership can be given to heirs - but I was talking about as an asset that can be owned. This is a lease. A deed denotes ownership - permanent, ownership. That's unlike a DVC membership. Disney may give a piece of paper that says "deed" on it, but that's not the type of deed I was talking about. I'm sure just as many folks have to resell DVC memberships because they can't keep up with the maintenance fees, either.

Regardless, I get how it works for some folks. Like I said, that's great - but I question how many more folks out there will buy-in before the market for these is saturated.

After reading your post I was intrigued about your comment on "asset that can be owned" and about how it is truly a "lease" even though you have a deed. I took some time this morning to visit the DVC website just to see their sales approach and how they word it. Very 'gingerly' is the best way I would describe it. Heres an example that is copied from the website:

" While other vacation ownership programs might limit you to one week per year, when you stay at Disney Vacation Club Resorts, your not locked into a set number of days.." I like how they use the word ownership, but only in reference to "other vacation programs" not DVC. Very subliminal. Heres another example:

"Your real estate interest in a Disney Vacation Club Resort is represented by a specific amount of Vacation Points." Again, tricky, they use the phrase "your real estate interest", which I guess is a crafty of way of saying "your lease" but still making you feel like you own something. The phrase "your interest" is peppered all throughout the pricing info, such as, "To become a Member, you'll purchase a real estate interest in a Disney Vacation Club Resort.." Pretty clever. The word purchase makes you feel like you are buying something that you own, but your technically just purchasing an interest.

Im not picking on DVC by posting this, its a website designed to make sales and I can completely respect that. Since I couldnt find information on how long a contract is I decided to start a "live chat" after the window popped up asking if i would like to speak to a "live" person. lol. It was pretty funny and Im quite sure I was just talking with a computer. It was very interesting. I had a feeling i should copy discussion as we went along. I will ad the entire transcript of the conversation but let me start by saying that the first responses I got from "Marie" were very quick. After I ask about how long the contract lasts the responses all took several minutes. After some time passed, somehow the answer to my question was put above the other responses as if it had been answered already. I asked a few more questions and after about 7 minutes, I got two responses and the chat session abruptly ended. I will post the original conversation and the a copy of the "altered" discussion. Here is the original, my posts are highlighted in blue:


One moment while we route your chat to a Disney Vacation Club Cast Member.

This is Marie, how may I help you with Disney Vacation Club today?

: I would like to know how long a DVC contract lsts terms of years.

: *lasts

Marie: I would be very happy to help you today! Have you received written information from us in the past?

: no

Marie: If you would like, I can have a Vacation Club Guide customize a full learning package. It is complimentary and no obligation to see this in writing. They will FedEx this out to you and also email you. It will include all the pricing, vacation point charts, destinations list, a DVD and financing options.

: I see most of that information on the website. May I know how long the average contract lasts in terms of years?

Marie: Would you like to receive a complimentary learning package of information about Disney Vacation Club?

: Why are you answering my question with a question? Am I speaking with a real person?

Marie: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.


Marie: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.

: Why is this taking so long? Thanks for your time, but I will be ending this chat.


The last two responses were about 3 or 4 minutes apart and then I got no response for 7 minutes. Then I said "I will be ending this chat" and then the chat window all of the sudden had an extra post up where my original question was and the last two responses from "Marie" were back to back and then the chat ended. Here is a copy of the altered chat session:

One moment while we route your chat to a Disney Vacation Club Cast Member.

This is Marie, how may I help you with Disney Vacation Club today?

: I would like to know how the long a DVC contract lsts terms of years.

: *lasts
Marie: I would be very happy to help you today! Have you received written information from us in the past?

: no
Marie: If you would like, I can have a Vacation Club Guide customize a full learning package. It is complimentary and no obligation to see this in writing. They will FedEx this out to you and also email you. It will include all the pricing, vacation point charts, destinations list, a DVD and financing options.

: I see most of that information on the website. May I know how long the average contract lasts in terms of years?
Marie: Currently you can have your home resort at Aulani, Disney Vacation Club Villas, Ko Olina, Hawai`I, deeded until January 31, 2062, or at our newest Resort The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Hotel® & Spa which is deeded until January 31, 2064

Marie: Would you like to receive a complimentary learning package of information about Disney Vacation Club?

: Why are you answering my question with a question? Am I speaking with a real person?
Marie: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.

Marie: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.

: Why is this taking so long? Thanks for your time, but I will be ending this chat.
Marie: Since I'm an introductory person here, I'm sorry I don't have the answer to that question. I will be happy to have one of our Vacation Club Guides contact you so they can answer your question.

: Are you a real person?
Marie: I will be right with you.

Marie: To better assist you today; may I please have your name, phone number and zip code to look you up in our Disney Vacation Club data base?

Marie: We have not heard from you. Do you wish to continue the chat?

Marie: We are ending the chat since we have not heard from you.

Thank you for contacting us today. Have a magical day!

You are not currently connected to a chat representative.

Notice how my questions about contract length seems to have been answered. And when I ask a second time if it was a real person I got the last two responses and then it just ended. It was definitely strange. Also, why the long delay between responses? Who knows. Just thought I would post my "experience" with the DVC site.

ETA: It gave me barely any time to respond at the end and then the chat session ended. It was obvious they were done with me or just dont like to answer questions like that on live chat
 
Last edited:

merry68

Active Member
Fifty pages later a good share of these posts are still exceedingly depressing. They make you wonder why anyone in their right mind would ever want to go back to WDW again, let alone stay in one of their hotels. Horrors!

While there is much truth in what is being said, do we have to let the negatives completely obscure what is positive about WDW? Or, aren't there any positives anymore?

Personally I see increased DVC expansion as having a negative impact on the overall growth and health of WDW. By focusing so much energy on hotels and timeshares, little effort is being done in the theme parks, and I mean another huge capital project such as SWLand coming to DHS (okay that's something I'd like to see, I am dreaming, LOL).

But when discussing actual timeshares, I think that is personal matter, and folks either love them or hate them.

I also see a lot of passion on Disney forums. People are very passionate about everything Disney because of the emotion it invokes in them.

And we do have a trip booked for next month, staying on property. If I felt things were that bad, we just wouldn't go, especially after visiting DL/DCA last month and having an exceptional trip. We are still choosing to go to WDW. I loathe FP+, but do like the updated tech (tap to room entry, tap to pay) so that NextGen isn't all bad, I think it still isn't done being tweaked with.
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
After reading your post I was intrigued about your comment on "asset that can be owned" and about how it is truly a "lease" even though you have a deed. I took some time this morning to visit the DVC website just to see their sales approach and how they word it. Very 'gingerly' is the best way I would describe it. Heres an example that is copied from the website:

" While other vacation ownership programs might limit you to one week per year, when you stay at Disney Vacation Club Resorts, your not locked into a set number of days.." I like how they use the word ownership, but only in reference to "other vacation programs" not DVC. Very subliminal. Heres another example:

"Your real estate interest in a Disney Vacation Club Resort is represented by a specific amount of Vacation Points." Again, tricky, they use the phrase "your real estate interest", which I guess is a crafty of way of saying "your lease" but still making you feel like you own something. The phrase "your interest" is peppered all throughout the pricing info, such as, "To become a Member, you'll purchase a real estate interest in a Disney Vacation Club Resort.." Pretty clever. The word purchase makes you feel like you are buying something that you own, but your technically just purchasing an interest.

Im not picking on DVC by posting this, its a website designed to make sales and I can completely respect that. Since I couldnt find information on how long a contract is I decided to start a "live chat" after the window popped up asking if i would like to speak to a "live" person. lol. It was pretty funny and Im quite sure I was just talking with a computer. It was very interesting. I had a feeling i should copy discussion as we went along. I will ad the entire transcript of the conversation but let me start by saying that the first responses I got from "Marie" were very quick. After I ask about how long the contract lasts the responses all took several minutes. After some time passed, somehow the answer to my question was put above the other responses as if it had been answered already. I asked a few more questions and after about 7 minutes, I got two responses and the chat session abruptly ended. I will post the original conversation and the a copy of the "altered" discussion. Here is the original, my posts are highlighted in blue:


One moment while we route your chat to a Disney Vacation Club Cast Member.

This is Marie, how may I help you with Disney Vacation Club today?

: I would like to know how long a DVC contract lsts terms of years.

: *lasts

Marie: I would be very happy to help you today! Have you received written information from us in the past?

: no

Marie: If you would like, I can have a Vacation Club Guide customize a full learning package. It is complimentary and no obligation to see this in writing. They will FedEx this out to you and also email you. It will include all the pricing, vacation point charts, destinations list, a DVD and financing options.

: I see most of that information on the website. May I know how long the average contract lasts in terms of years?

Marie: Would you like to receive a complimentary learning package of information about Disney Vacation Club?

: Why are you answering my question with a question? Am I speaking with a real person?

Marie: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.


Marie: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.

: Why is this taking so long? Thanks for your time, but I will be ending this chat.


The last two responses were about 3 or 4 minutes apart and then I got no response for 7 minutes. Then I said "I will be ending this chat" and then the chat window all of the sudden had an extra post up where my original question was and the last two responses from "Marie" were back to back and then the chat ended. Here is a copy of the altered chat session:

One moment while we route your chat to a Disney Vacation Club Cast Member.

This is Marie, how may I help you with Disney Vacation Club today?

: I would like to know how the long a DVC contract lsts terms of years.

: *lasts
Marie: I would be very happy to help you today! Have you received written information from us in the past?

: no
Marie: If you would like, I can have a Vacation Club Guide customize a full learning package. It is complimentary and no obligation to see this in writing. They will FedEx this out to you and also email you. It will include all the pricing, vacation point charts, destinations list, a DVD and financing options.

: I see most of that information on the website. May I know how long the average contract lasts in terms of years?
Marie: Currently you can have your home resort at Aulani, Disney Vacation Club Villas, Ko Olina, Hawai`I, deeded until January 31, 2062, or at our newest Resort The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Hotel® & Spa which is deeded until January 31, 2064

Marie: Would you like to receive a complimentary learning package of information about Disney Vacation Club?

: Why are you answering my question with a question? Am I speaking with a real person?
Marie: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.

Marie: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.

: Why is this taking so long? Thanks for your time, but I will be ending this chat.
Marie: Since I'm an introductory person here, I'm sorry I don't have the answer to that question. I will be happy to have one of our Vacation Club Guides contact you so they can answer your question.

: Are you a real person?
Marie: I will be right with you.

Marie: To better assist you today; may I please have your name, phone number and zip code to look you up in our Disney Vacation Club data base?

Marie: We have not heard from you. Do you wish to continue the chat?

Marie: We are ending the chat since we have not heard from you.

Thank you for contacting us today. Have a magical day!

You are not currently connected to a chat representative.

Notice how my questions about contract length seems to have been answered. And when I ask a second time if it was a real person I got the last two responses and then it just ended. It was definitely strange. Also, why the long delay between responses? Who knows. Just thought I would post my "experience" with the DVC site.

Fascinating. Sorta like a meet and greet with a snake oil salesman.
 

GrammieBee

Well-Known Member
The thread is about one topic that most seem to see as something negative (I would agree with that assessment personally). And since the owner and the moderators of this website asked everyone to stay on one topic in this thread, that's what is being discussed. There are plenty of positives being discussed all over this website in other threads. And I think plenty of us read more than just this one thread on this website, so we do get a varied picture.

I do read many of the other threads I find of interest. Maybe I find this thread depressing because it makes me wonder if I am in my right mind because we will go back to WDW and we will stay in a "deluxe" resort despite the problems being dicussed. Yes, we could stay in an off site hotel for a lot less and that is exactly what we will be doing this Fall when we visit Sea World and that "other" place instead of WDW. Perhaps we are brainwashed, but when we go to Disney we prefer to stay on Disney property, ignore the negatives and just have an enjoyable time.
 

NormC

Well-Known Member
DVC is great for Disney. DVC members are a captive audience.
You pay for your hotel room up to 50 years in advance and Disney gets your money. If the room is dirty, TV broken, moldy AC, corpse in the bathtub, etc. you cannot get your money back. They will be gracious enough to move you to another room which may be an improvement but you will not get a refund. You can complain about every little thing but there is no real incentive for Disney to fix any of it. They already have your money. Their goal is achieved. And to top it off you will give them more money every year to maintain your piece of the pie plus taxes.

They have my money. My BLT ownership expires when I am 95 in 2060. My family of 4 did visit Harry Potter in '13 and we will probably spend two days there next time to check out DA. We may even spend a day at Seaworld. We love BLT and WDW but would like to see more value out of our DVC ownership. APs do not make sense for us as we only go once a year for about 8 days and unless greatly discounted are not worth it. The DVC discounts for merchandise and food is a nice gesture but everything is overpriced anyway. There needs to be more incentives for DVC ownership or they will have lots of new empty rooms.
 

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
There are plenty of positives, but most of them date back 20 or more years.

I'll put a finer point on it: Eisner era.

Personally I see increased DVC expansion as having a negative impact on the overall growth and health of WDW. By focusing so much energy on hotels and timeshares, little effort is being done in the theme parks, and I mean another huge capital project such as SWLand coming to DHS (okay that's something I'd like to see, I am dreaming, LOL).

But when discussing actual timeshares, I think that is personal matter, and folks either love them or hate them.

DVC (including any DVC+resort expansion) and the Parks do not share a budget. (edited for clarity)
 

Nemo14

Well-Known Member
I do read many of the other threads I find of interest. Maybe I find this thread depressing because it makes me wonder if I am in my right mind because we will go back to WDW and we will stay in a "deluxe" resort despite the problems being dicussed. Yes, we could stay in an off site hotel for a lot less and that is exactly what we will be doing this Fall when we visit Sea World and that "other" place instead of WDW. Perhaps we are brainwashed, but when we go to Disney we prefer to stay on Disney property, ignore the negatives and just have an enjoyable time.
No one is telling you not to. If it's worth it to you, then it's worth it to you.
 

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
DVC is great for Disney. DVC members are a captive audience.
You pay for your hotel room up to 50 years in advance and Disney gets your money. If the room is dirty, TV broken, moldy AC, corpse in the bathtub, etc. you cannot get your money back. They will be gracious enough to move you to another room which may be an improvement but you will not get a refund. You can complain about every little thing but there is no real incentive for Disney to fix any of it. They already have your money. Their goal is achieved. And to top it off you will give them more money every year to maintain your piece of the pie plus taxes.

They have my money. My BLT ownership expires when I am 95 in 2060. My family of 4 did visit Harry Potter in '13 and we will probably spend two days there next time to check out DA. We may even spend a day at Seaworld. We love BLT and WDW but would like to see more value out of our DVC ownership. APs do not make sense for us as we only go once a year for about 8 days and unless greatly discounted are not worth it. The DVC discounts for merchandise and food is a nice gesture but everything is overpriced anyway. There needs to be more incentives for DVC ownership or they will have lots of new empty rooms.

But as you said, they already have your money and your dues. DVC would LIKE the rooms to be empty. Parks, not so much.

I think there are much bigger concerns at WDW than DVC at this point.
 

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