The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[flyerjab]

It would not surprise me at all if, along with expanding room capacity on site for DVC, they start offering additional perks for being a DVC member. Maybe DVC will get additional FPs as opposed to targeting deluxe resort guests. Maybe even DVC member lounge areas in the resorts.

I posted these ideas in another thread so I apologize for repeating it but this thread is more tailored to this discussion.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

There are plenty of positives, but most of them date back 20 or more years.

I think this forum (WDW Parks News, Rumors, and Current Events) is part of the culprit. If it really was focused on news or solid rumors - there really wouldn't be much to discuss. That is the problem. We (rightfully so) expect to see something, anything really, encouraging when we open this board up and for every bit of positive news (that is usually so far off on the horizon) it is overwhelmed by stories of apathy and neglect. Maybe a disclaimer should be added to the forum - WDW Parks News, Rumors, and Current Events *enter at your own risk and lower your expectations.

There most certainly hasn't been two decades of improvements when compared to the examples set by the resort over its first 20 years or its sister resort in Anaheim.

 

[Nemo14]

It would not surprise me at all if, along with expanding room capacity on site for DVC, they start offering additional perks for being a DVC member. Maybe DVC will get additional FPs as opposed to targeting deluxe resort guests. Maybe even DVC member lounge areas in the resorts.

I posted these ideas in another thread so I apologize for repeating it but this thread is more tailored to this discussion.

But there is no reason for them to do this. They have your money already, and it's not like they're in the business to be nice. If it doesn't increase their profits, they're not going to do it.

 

[BrerJon]

I don't stay off site because my BF (for some reason) adores Disney transportation and doesn't want to rent a car. We enjoy our adult beverages, do often end the day at Epcot for dinner and do not drive if imbibing. Personal preference, sure, but we are getting away with a rate about 35-40% of what we paid at BC for these particular amenities.

I can understand not wanting to drive, and staying onsite if getting a big discount, but the difference between onsite and offsite rates now is so large that - for many people who pay rack rates - a far better option is stay at a hotel in the Lake Buena Vista area that is at least Disney Deluxe quality for Value (or less!) price, then take taxis everywhere.

The cost of a taxi from LBV to and from a park is far less than the difference in room cost, and you get one straight away instead of having to wait for the bus. It will likely get you back home quicker too, back to your above Deluxe quality room.

 

[BrerJon]

Be aware your bed and towels won't be as soft at the POP. The room is smaller, too.

Somehow, the food court options and consistent bus service make up for those things.

Anyone spending a hundred bucks extra a night because of softer towels might want to consider going to Wal-Mart, buying a towel softer than any resort one for ten bucks, then putting that in their suitcase. Hundreds of dollars saved right there!

 

[flyerjab]

But there is no reason for them to do this. They have your money already, and it's not like they're in the business to be nice. If it doesn't increase their profits, they're not going to do it.

I see it differently I guess. Also, definitely not saying they would perks to be nice. @WDW1974 indicated a move to greatly increased DVC on site capacity. From my understanding, they haven't sold all current points prior to expanding at Poly and the now hinted at expansion at FW. Spirit also spoke to the possibility of adding a DVC only lounge at FW as part of the expansion. Couldn't that be rolled into new price points or annual dues? Justification would be that it is part of the new expanded DVC footprint. I would think that would help drive new sales for DVC, making an existing business model even more successful.

 

[BrerJon]

ETA: It gave me barely any time to respond at the end and then the chat session ended. It was obvious they were done with me or just dont like to answer questions like that on live chat

Sounds like a standard automated fake 'live chat' thing that uses artificial intelligence to give a correct answer. I doubt Marie even exists.

 

[xdan0920]

I can understand not wanting to drive, and staying onsite if getting a big discount, but the difference between onsite and offsite rates now is so large that - for many people who pay rack rates - a far better option is stay at a hotel in the Lake Buena Vista area that is at least Disney Deluxe quality for Value (or less!) price, then take taxis everywhere.

The cost of a taxi from LBV to and from a park is far less than the difference in room cost, and you get one straight away instead of having to wait for the bus. It will likely get you back home quicker too, back to your above Deluxe quality room.

But, those taxis aren't "included". It's obviously semantics, but having something "included" and "paid for" offers people a warm feeling inside.

Why do you think so many people opt into the DDP?

 

[GrammieBee]

Short sighted, or not, the powers that be will keep creating DVC units as long as people keep buying the points to stay in them. Not necessarily a good plan.

 

[Bolna]

I do read many of the other threads I find of interest. Maybe I find this thread depressing because it makes me wonder if I am in my right mind because we will go back to WDW and we will stay in a "deluxe" resort despite the problems being dicussed. Yes, we could stay in an off site hotel for a lot less and that is exactly what we will be doing this Fall when we visit Sea World and that "other" place instead of WDW. Perhaps we are brainwashed, but when we go to Disney we prefer to stay on Disney property, ignore the negatives and just have an enjoyable time.

Many people spend money on things that others think it is crazy to spend money on because they don't see the value. Why is there a market for 500 $ handbags or muscle cars? As @Nemo14 said, it is ultimately your decision on what to spend your money on. But I understand how it kind of hits one hard when one starts to realise that the pixies dust is no longer as magical at WDW as it used to be.

 

[BrerJon]

But, those taxis aren't "included". It's obviously semantics, but having something "included" and "paid for" offers people a warm feeling inside.

Interesting point. Makes me think companies like Uber should be setting up shop nearby and selling 'packages', a week's return taxis to the parks, for example, pre-paid, available to any guest at any hotel, on or offsite. All they need to do is guarantee they will get you there and back faster than the buses will and they'd make a fortune.

 

[Hyperspace Hoopla]

Disney definitely does NOT want DVC rooms to go empty. There's no cost to them either way, but they benefit from the money spent by the guests staying there. Think of it like Carnival giving Florida residents 90% off last minute cruises. If the cabin is empty, no one is buying drinks, or gambling in the casino.

 

[Bolna]

It would not surprise me at all if, along with expanding room capacity on site for DVC, they start offering additional perks for being a DVC member. Maybe DVC will get additional FPs as opposed to targeting deluxe resort guests. Maybe even DVC member lounge areas in the resorts.

I posted these ideas in another thread so I apologize for repeating it but this thread is more tailored to this discussion.

What @WDW1974 wrote about a possible lounge seemed to be about a concierge lounge. I took that as meaning that they are considering to add club level villas like they have them at AKV-Jambo. Those are wildly popular. And the WL CL seems to be very popular, too. So I think it is more a perk to sell WL lodge, even to get existing DVC members to add on there for the home resort advantage for these CL villas. There were rumours about CL being added to the VGF, but that did not happen.

 

[Bolna]

Disney definitely does NOT want DVC rooms to go empty. There's no cost to them either way, but they benefit from the money spent by the guests staying there. Think of it like Carnival giving Florida residents 90% off last minute cruises. If the cabin is empty, no one is buying drinks, or gambling in the casino.

Any room that is not booked 30 (I think, might be a different number) by a DVCer goes into "breakage" and DVC can then sell this room internally to Disney which can then rent out the room as a normal guest room. I am pretty sure the "breakage" fee that is paid internally is much lower than the rack rate for the room. Of course it depends on whether Disney can sell the room...

 

[merry68]

I'll put a finer point on it: Eisner era.



DVC (including any DVC+resort expansion) and the Parks do not share a budget. (edited for clarity)

Correct- my apologies, I didn't mean to imply there was a shared budget. However, when TDO puts so much time, energy and re-investment into expanding the resorts and DVC, it can hamper the Board's desire to go ahead and green light a capex project inside the Parks.

The management is chasing quick return dollars while letting the Parks, especially WDW decline, imo.

 

[Mike S]

After reading your post I was intrigued about your comment on "asset that can be owned" and about how it is truly a "lease" even though you have a deed. I took some time this morning to visit the DVC website just to see their sales approach and how they word it. Very 'gingerly' is the best way I would describe it. Heres an example that is copied from the website:

" While other vacation ownership programs might limit you to one week per year, when you stay at Disney Vacation Club Resorts, your not locked into a set number of days.." I like how they use the word ownership, but only in reference to "other vacation programs" not DVC. Very subliminal. Heres another example:

"Your real estate interest in a Disney Vacation Club Resort is represented by a specific amount of Vacation Points." Again, tricky, they use the phrase "your real estate interest", which I guess is a crafty of way of saying "your lease" but still making you feel like you own something. The phrase "your interest" is peppered all throughout the pricing info, such as, "To become a Member, you'll purchase a real estate interest in a Disney Vacation Club Resort.." Pretty clever. The word purchase makes you feel like you are buying something that you own, but your technically just purchasing an interest.

Im not picking on DVC by posting this, its a website designed to make sales and I can completely respect that. Since I couldnt find information on how long a contract is I decided to start a "live chat" after the window popped up asking if i would like to speak to a "live" person. lol. It was pretty funny and Im quite sure I was just talking with a computer. It was very interesting. I had a feeling i should copy discussion as we went along. I will ad the entire transcript of the conversation but let me start by saying that the first responses I got from "Marie" were very quick. After I ask about how long the contract lasts the responses all took several minutes. After some time passed, somehow the answer to my question was put above the other responses as if it had been answered already. I asked a few more questions and after about 7 minutes, I got two responses and the chat session abruptly ended. I will post the original conversation and the a copy of the "altered" discussion. Here is the original, my posts are highlighted in blue:


One moment while we route your chat to a Disney Vacation Club Cast Member.

This is Marie, how may I help you with Disney Vacation Club today?

: I would like to know how long a DVC contract lsts terms of years.

: *lasts

Marie: I would be very happy to help you today! Have you received written information from us in the past?

: no

Marie: If you would like, I can have a Vacation Club Guide customize a full learning package. It is complimentary and no obligation to see this in writing. They will FedEx this out to you and also email you. It will include all the pricing, vacation point charts, destinations list, a DVD and financing options.

: I see most of that information on the website. May I know how long the average contract lasts in terms of years?

Marie: Would you like to receive a complimentary learning package of information about Disney Vacation Club?

: Why are you answering my question with a question? Am I speaking with a real person?

Marie: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.

Marie: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.

: Why is this taking so long? Thanks for your time, but I will be ending this chat.


The last two responses were about 3 or 4 minutes apart and then I got no response for 7 minutes. Then I said "I will be ending this chat" and then the chat window all of the sudden had an extra post up where my original question was and the last two responses from "Marie" were back to back and then the chat ended. Here is a copy of the altered chat session:

One moment while we route your chat to a Disney Vacation Club Cast Member.

This is Marie, how may I help you with Disney Vacation Club today?

: I would like to know how the long a DVC contract lsts terms of years.

: *lasts
Marie: I would be very happy to help you today! Have you received written information from us in the past?

: no
Marie: If you would like, I can have a Vacation Club Guide customize a full learning package. It is complimentary and no obligation to see this in writing. They will FedEx this out to you and also email you. It will include all the pricing, vacation point charts, destinations list, a DVD and financing options.

: I see most of that information on the website. May I know how long the average contract lasts in terms of years?
Marie: Currently you can have your home resort at Aulani, Disney Vacation Club Villas, Ko Olina, Hawai`I, deeded until January 31, 2062, or at our newest Resort The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Hotel® & Spa which is deeded until January 31, 2064

Marie: Would you like to receive a complimentary learning package of information about Disney Vacation Club?

: Why are you answering my question with a question? Am I speaking with a real person?
Marie: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.

Marie: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.

: Why is this taking so long? Thanks for your time, but I will be ending this chat.
Marie: Since I'm an introductory person here, I'm sorry I don't have the answer to that question. I will be happy to have one of our Vacation Club Guides contact you so they can answer your question.

: Are you a real person?
Marie: I will be right with you.

Marie: To better assist you today; may I please have your name, phone number and zip code to look you up in our Disney Vacation Club data base?

Marie: We have not heard from you. Do you wish to continue the chat?

Marie: We are ending the chat since we have not heard from you.

Thank you for contacting us today. Have a magical day!

You are not currently connected to a chat representative.

Notice how my questions about contract length seems to have been answered. And when I ask a second time if it was a real person I got the last two responses and then it just ended. It was definitely strange. Also, why the long delay between responses? Who knows. Just thought I would post my "experience" with the DVC site.

ETA: It gave me barely any time to respond at the end and then the chat session ended. It was obvious they were done with me or just dont like to answer questions like that on live chat

Maybe they knew you were on to them

 

[Trauma]

Ok so I will chime in on this even though I not a dvc member.

Whether or not this is a good decision financially would take me some time going over the financial statements to comment on.

That being said I think there should be a thought process that is clearly not in place for parks and resorts.

The first question asked whenever A new idea or strategy is formed should be DOES THIS IMPROVE THE GUEST EXPERIENCE.

If yes then you can start to determine the financial impact of the concept.

If no then what in the heck are you doing in the first place.

You can't make decisions in the theme park or hospitality business on financial impact alone the primary focus is always the customer experience.

Until Disney rediscovers this core concept of there business model the downward spiral will continue.

 

[Kamikaze]

Correct- my apologies, I didn't mean to imply there was a shared budget. However, when TDO puts so much time, energy and re-investment into expanding the resorts and DVC, it can hamper the Board's desire to go ahead and green light a capex project inside the Parks.

The management is chasing quick return dollars while letting the Parks, especially WDW decline, imo.

Oh, the bolded, 100%. Which is why I have not attended WDW in 5 years. And MM+. I will be going to DLR in November, but WDW won't get my money until things change.

Disney definitely does NOT want DVC rooms to go empty. There's no cost to them either way, but they benefit from the money spent by the guests staying there. Think of it like Carnival giving Florida residents 90% off last minute cruises. If the cabin is empty, no one is buying drinks, or gambling in the casino.

I didn't say Disney. I said DVC. The different divisions are basically different companies.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

On the OT ... seems many DVCers are not fond of the new-look redone Villas at WL. Seems they did a rush job and cheapened the look by lightening them up. I have heard ''generic'' and ''all the DVCs are starting to look the same'' on DVC forums. Gee, with One Disney mentality why would this surprise anyone?

What I loved about the WL (and DAK Lodge), amongst other things, is they were darker. The theme was rustic and so the units didn't look like a bright day at the beach or a modern O-Town condo with a few pieces of decoration thrown in. ... Seems like lots of folks agree/ed with me but were likely shot down by the loudmouths who always seem to win the day at the World.

That seems to be the design intended for all the resorts now.
I hadn't checked out the FS since they had concept art up, but after checking out the photos of the resort & comparing it to the hack job upgrade at the GF. It is clear that Disney deluxe resorts are in trouble.

• the massive water play area for children
• the lazy river
• adult only pool
• Capa (steakhouse)
• Ravello (Italian)
• Beautiful rooms with views of Wishes Fireworks & Epcot.

I just don't see any disney deluxe coming close to FS.

 

[GoofGoof]

Others answered your ROFR applicability questions, but I wanted to address this one. Across the timeshare industry, a good rule of thumb is that cost of construction (acquiring the land and actually building the thing) should be no more than 20% of the total sales revenue. In other words, a brand new shiny stick-built resort selling at (say) $165/pt should cost no more than $33/pt to build. What's more, it is easier to sell and market brand new shiny resorts than it is for existing resorts that have been around for a while, though there is some glideway for existing owners to upgrade.

Interestingly, sales and marketing costs between 25-50% of total sales volume. That's because timeshare is a product that is sold, not bought. There is some organic demand, but it's small in the grand scheme of things, even for DVC.



If you look at the ROFR threads carefully, you'll notice that the price dipped before the restrictions were put in place. They dipped in reaction to a flood of contracts entering the market during the economic downturn. The restrictions weren't mean to depress the resale market, instead they were a way to help establish the value of a developer purchase given the increasing spread between developer and resale prices. Indeed, as the economy has recovered, resale prices have somewhat as well. They haven't gotten back to where they were, but they are better.

This is exactly true. For a number example: BLT has 5.7 million points and cost $200M to build. Right around $35 a point. It was way more profitable to build BLT than to buy back resale points through ROFR and resell them.