The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[Cesar R M]

After reading your post I was intrigued about your comment on "asset that can be owned" and about how it is truly a "lease" even though you have a deed. I took some time this morning to visit the DVC website just to see their sales approach and how they word it. Very 'gingerly' is the best way I would describe it. Heres an example that is copied from the website:

" While other vacation ownership programs might limit you to one week per year, when you stay at Disney Vacation Club Resorts, your not locked into a set number of days.." I like how they use the word ownership, but only in reference to "other vacation programs" not DVC. Very subliminal. Heres another example:

"Your real estate interest in a Disney Vacation Club Resort is represented by a specific amount of Vacation Points." Again, tricky, they use the phrase "your real estate interest", which I guess is a crafty of way of saying "your lease" but still making you feel like you own something. The phrase "your interest" is peppered all throughout the pricing info, such as, "To become a Member, you'll purchase a real estate interest in a Disney Vacation Club Resort.." Pretty clever. The word purchase makes you feel like you are buying something that you own, but your technically just purchasing an interest.

Im not picking on DVC by posting this, its a website designed to make sales and I can completely respect that. Since I couldnt find information on how long a contract is I decided to start a "live chat" after the window popped up asking if i would like to speak to a "live" person. lol. It was pretty funny and Im quite sure I was just talking with a computer. It was very interesting. I had a feeling i should copy discussion as we went along. I will ad the entire transcript of the conversation but let me start by saying that the first responses I got from "Marie" were very quick. After I ask about how long the contract lasts the responses all took several minutes. After some time passed, somehow the answer to my question was put above the other responses as if it had been answered already. I asked a few more questions and after about 7 minutes, I got two responses and the chat session abruptly ended. I will post the original conversation and the a copy of the "altered" discussion. Here is the original, my posts are highlighted in blue:


One moment while we route your chat to a Disney Vacation Club Cast Member.

This is Marie, how may I help you with Disney Vacation Club today?

: I would like to know how long a DVC contract lsts terms of years.

: *lasts

Marie: I would be very happy to help you today! Have you received written information from us in the past?

: no

Marie: If you would like, I can have a Vacation Club Guide customize a full learning package. It is complimentary and no obligation to see this in writing. They will FedEx this out to you and also email you. It will include all the pricing, vacation point charts, destinations list, a DVD and financing options.

: I see most of that information on the website. May I know how long the average contract lasts in terms of years?

Marie: Would you like to receive a complimentary learning package of information about Disney Vacation Club?

: Why are you answering my question with a question? Am I speaking with a real person?

Marie: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.

Marie: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.

: Why is this taking so long? Thanks for your time, but I will be ending this chat.


The last two responses were about 3 or 4 minutes apart and then I got no response for 7 minutes. Then I said "I will be ending this chat" and then the chat window all of the sudden had an extra post up where my original question was and the last two responses from "Marie" were back to back and then the chat ended. Here is a copy of the altered chat session:

One moment while we route your chat to a Disney Vacation Club Cast Member.

This is Marie, how may I help you with Disney Vacation Club today?

: I would like to know how the long a DVC contract lsts terms of years.

: *lasts
Marie: I would be very happy to help you today! Have you received written information from us in the past?

: no
Marie: If you would like, I can have a Vacation Club Guide customize a full learning package. It is complimentary and no obligation to see this in writing. They will FedEx this out to you and also email you. It will include all the pricing, vacation point charts, destinations list, a DVD and financing options.

: I see most of that information on the website. May I know how long the average contract lasts in terms of years?
Marie: Currently you can have your home resort at Aulani, Disney Vacation Club Villas, Ko Olina, Hawai`I, deeded until January 31, 2062, or at our newest Resort The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Hotel® & Spa which is deeded until January 31, 2064

Marie: Would you like to receive a complimentary learning package of information about Disney Vacation Club?

: Why are you answering my question with a question? Am I speaking with a real person?
Marie: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.

Marie: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.

: Why is this taking so long? Thanks for your time, but I will be ending this chat.
Marie: Since I'm an introductory person here, I'm sorry I don't have the answer to that question. I will be happy to have one of our Vacation Club Guides contact you so they can answer your question.

: Are you a real person?
Marie: I will be right with you.

Marie: To better assist you today; may I please have your name, phone number and zip code to look you up in our Disney Vacation Club data base?

Marie: We have not heard from you. Do you wish to continue the chat?

Marie: We are ending the chat since we have not heard from you.

Thank you for contacting us today. Have a magical day!

You are not currently connected to a chat representative.

Notice how my questions about contract length seems to have been answered. And when I ask a second time if it was a real person I got the last two responses and then it just ended. It was definitely strange. Also, why the long delay between responses? Who knows. Just thought I would post my "experience" with the DVC site.

ETA: It gave me barely any time to respond at the end and then the chat session ended. It was obvious they were done with me or just dont like to answer questions like that on live chat

that clearly shows the answers are all automated based on patterns.
some advanced support center systems use this... specially when they are sent to callcenters in India or Thailand

 

[oswaldmickey]

Hasn't Disney started to do the same thing to DVC'ers as it has done to regular Disney Hotel stays? Constantly raise the cost?

Every year Disney raises hotel prices for regular guest stays at their Disney hotels
but hasn't Disney started doing the same thing for DVC'ers every year (at least for certain weeks of the year)?

Like at Christmas a Villa in WL during Xmas week in 2013 might have been 100 points and now in 2014 it is 120 points? I don't own a DVC membership so I don't know exactly how much they are but I do look at that about once a year and thought I noticed they were raising how many points it cost to stay every year (again at least during certain weeks)?

Am I wrong? One of the reasons I never bought into it myself among others.

 

[danv3]

That seems to be the design intended for all the resorts now.
I hadn't checked out the FS since they had concept art up, but after checking out the photos of the resort & comparing it to the hack job upgrade at the GF. It is clear that Disney deluxe resorts are in trouble.

• the massive water play area for children
• the lazy river
• adult only pool
• Capa (steakhouse)
• Ravello (Italian)
• Beautiful rooms with views of Wishes Fireworks & Epcot.

I just don't see any disney deluxe coming close to FS.

And, at least based on some quick searches I did for October, Disney's "Deluxe" resorts cost the same as, or in some cases more than, FS.

 

[danv3]

Hasn't Disney started to do the same thing to DVC'ers as it has done to regular Disney Hotel stays? Constantly raise the cost?

Every year Disney raises hotel prices for regular guest stays at their Disney hotels
but hasn't Disney started doing the same thing for DVC'ers every year (at least for certain weeks of the year)?

Like at Christmas a Villa in WL during Xmas week in 2013 might have been 100 points and now in 2014 it is 120 points? I don't own a DVC membership so I don't know exactly how much they are but I do look at that about once a year and thought I noticed they were raising how many points it cost to stay every year (again at least during certain weeks)?

Am I wrong? One of the reasons I never bought into it myself among others.

It's complicated, but they can't increase the cost of one week without reducing the cost of another week (within a given resort). They do have seasons where it costs more, but those are offset by seasons where it costs less. It's been a few years since any big changes to the points charts, but there are always winners and losers whenever it happens.

 

[Jeffxz]

Hasn't Disney started to do the same thing to DVC'ers as it has done to regular Disney Hotel stays? Constantly raise the cost?

Every year Disney raises hotel prices for regular guest stays at their Disney hotels
but hasn't Disney started doing the same thing for DVC'ers every year (at least for certain weeks of the year)?

Like at Christmas a Villa in WL during Xmas week in 2013 might have been 100 points and now in 2014 it is 120 points? I don't own a DVC membership so I don't know exactly how much they are but I do look at that about once a year and thought I noticed they were raising how many points it cost to stay every year (again at least during certain weeks)?

Am I wrong? One of the reasons I never bought into it myself among others.

Yes, you are wrong (kinda). Disney can shift around the point costs throughout the calendar, but they can not make the total cost throughout the year go higher. In your example, if Christmas week costs increased from 100 to 120 points - a different week would have had to decrease by 20 points (or some combination of weeks would need to decrease by a total of 20 points).

 

[awilliams4]

The first question asked whenever A new idea or strategy is formed should be DOES THIS IMPROVE THE GUEST EXPERIENCE.

If their market is now primarily DVC Members and now they get to try out the main BC building, the Yacht Club, some Poly too. Yes, then it does improve the experience.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

And, at least based on some quick searches I did for October, Disney's "Deluxe" resorts cost the same as, or in some cases more than, FS.

Yup. I tried to price out a trip under the 20% off 2015 stays but they are already booked up on many days (Jan to early March had about 10-15 days unavailable, while Mid-March through June is booked solid.) Tried rack rate and no standard rooms are left, only golden oak view & magic kingdom rooms left.

I also hear that they will have dedicated buses to the parks unlike the shared buses at Disney deluxes & I have heard chatter that they will be offering buses direct to Universal for a fee.

I was hoping that this would push Disney to improve their deluxes sadly I think Disney is beginning to put Profits over guest experience.

 

[Mike S]

Yup. I tried to price out a trip under the 20% off 2015 stays but they are already booked up on many days (Jan to early March had about 10-15 days unavailable, while Mid-March through June is booked solid.) Tried rack rate and no standard rooms are left, only golden oak view & magic kingdom rooms left.

I also hear that they will have dedicated buses to the parks unlike the shared buses at Disney deluxes & I have heard chatter that they will be offering buses direct to Universal for a fee.

I was hoping that this would push Disney to improve their deluxes sadly I think Disney is beginning to put Profits over guest experience.

This Four Seasons is starting to sound really good. Might have to stay there one time

 

[mgpan]

Yes, you are wrong (kinda). Disney can shift around the point costs throughout the calendar, but they can not make the total cost throughout the year go higher. In your example, if Christmas week costs increased from 100 to 120 points - a different week would have had to decrease by 20 points (or some combination of weeks would need to decrease by a total of 20 points).

But does the rate of occupancy have to be equivalent? If I have 50 rooms "rented" during one week bringing me 20 more points each, and only 30 of those 50 are occupied during the week they're going for 20 points less, haven't I still come out way ahead? Especially if those 15 empty rooms can now be sold as regular hotel rooms?

 

[John]

Yup. I tried to price out a trip under the 20% off 2015 stays but they are already booked up on many days (Jan to early March had about 10-15 days unavailable, while Mid-March through June is booked solid.) Tried rack rate and no standard rooms are left, only golden oak view & magic kingdom rooms left.

I also hear that they will have dedicated buses to the parks unlike the shared buses at Disney deluxes & I have heard chatter that they will be offering buses direct to Universal for a fee.

I was hoping that this would push Disney to improve their deluxes sadly I think Disney is beginning to put Profits over guest experience.

Just checked myself.....now they are booked solid January thru July 19th.

 

[flynnibus]

But does the rate of occupancy have to be equivalent?

Points used in a year swing up and down based on banking/borrowing. People work hard to ensure their points don't just 'expire'

The total points pool is fixed.. how each week is costed can vary, but the totals will always balance out.

The thing is you points are fixed, but your 'cost of the vacation' is not. Your normal vacation period may change in points cost, requiring you to shift your regular stay around, etc.. or buy more points to compensate or if your visiting patterns are not flexible, etc.

 

[Stevek]

That seems to be the design intended for all the resorts now.
I hadn't checked out the FS since they had concept art up, but after checking out the photos of the resort & comparing it to the hack job upgrade at the GF. It is clear that Disney deluxe resorts are in trouble.

• the massive water play area for children
• the lazy river
• adult only pool
• Capa (steakhouse)
• Ravello (Italian)
• Beautiful rooms with views of Wishes Fireworks & Epcot.

I just don't see any disney deluxe coming close to FS.

I'm going to play dumb...ok, I'm not really playing, but what is FS?

 

[flynnibus]

I'm going to play dumb...ok, I'm not really playing, but what is FS?

Four Seasons

 

[Kamikaze]

Just checked myself.....now they are booked solid January thru July 19th.

I would think not all rooms are released.

 

[John]

I would think not all rooms are released.

Maybe...but according to the website and calendar.

 

[wdisney9000]

It clearly shows the answers are all automated based on patterns.
some advanced support center systems use this... specially when they are sent to callcenters in India or Thailand

Ya, I figured. It was just odd that "marie" asked two questions back to back and then quickly ended the chat with out me even responding. I took way more time responding to the earlier questions asked but I had about 45 seconds to reply to the last question before it ended it and told me to have a magical day! Why would it ask me for my info to locate me in the DVC system? I'm obviously not a member because otherwise I would be speaking with Member Services, Either an ignorant person or an ignorant automated system, neither would surprise me.

I wouldn't be surprised either if those automated response systems had something built in to respond to the question "are you real?" I asked it twice and both times it took several minutes before I got a response. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can tell us more how these systems work or perhaps knows what type of system DVC has.

 

[wdisney9000]

This Four Seasons is starting to sound really good. Might have to stay there one time

If you want to.experience TRUE deluxe accommodations, it is the way to go. If Stacy Aswad (her last name is one S away from being the funniest last name ever) had a "must do" to experience what real deluxe smells like, she could walk into the lobby of a FS and call it a wrap.

 

[Mike S]

If you want to.experience TRUE deluxe accommodations, it is the way to go. If Stacy Aswad (her last name is one S away from being the funniest last name ever) had a "must do" to experience what real deluxe smells like, she could walk into the lobby of a FS and call it a wrap.

I wish I could give you more than one like for that

 

[Trauma]

If their market is now primarily DVC Members and now they get to try out the main BC building, the Yacht Club, some Poly too. Yes, then it does improve the experience.

Ahh I wasn't aware that the majority of people staying at Disney resorts are dvc members. Shows what I know....

 

[GoofGoof]

After reading your post I was intrigued about your comment on "asset that can be owned" and about how it is truly a "lease" even though you have a deed. I took some time this morning to visit the DVC website just to see their sales approach and how they word it. Very 'gingerly' is the best way I would describe it. Heres an example that is copied from the website:

" While other vacation ownership programs might limit you to one week per year, when you stay at Disney Vacation Club Resorts, your not locked into a set number of days.." I like how they use the word ownership, but only in reference to "other vacation programs" not DVC. Very subliminal. Heres another example:

"Your real estate interest in a Disney Vacation Club Resort is represented by a specific amount of Vacation Points." Again, tricky, they use the phrase "your real estate interest", which I guess is a crafty of way of saying "your lease" but still making you feel like you own something. The phrase "your interest" is peppered all throughout the pricing info, such as, "To become a Member, you'll purchase a real estate interest in a Disney Vacation Club Resort.." Pretty clever. The word purchase makes you feel like you are buying something that you own, but your technically just purchasing an interest.

Im not picking on DVC by posting this, its a website designed to make sales and I can completely respect that. Since I couldnt find information on how long a contract is I decided to start a "live chat" after the window popped up asking if i would like to speak to a "live" person. lol. It was pretty funny and Im quite sure I was just talking with a computer. It was very interesting. I had a feeling i should copy discussion as we went along. I will ad the entire transcript of the conversation but let me start by saying that the first responses I got from "Marie" were very quick. After I ask about how long the contract lasts the responses all took several minutes. After some time passed, somehow the answer to my question was put above the other responses as if it had been answered already. I asked a few more questions and after about 7 minutes, I got two responses and the chat session abruptly ended. I will post the original conversation and the a copy of the "altered" discussion. Here is the original, my posts are highlighted in blue:


One moment while we route your chat to a Disney Vacation Club Cast Member.

This is Marie, how may I help you with Disney Vacation Club today?

: I would like to know how long a DVC contract lsts terms of years.

: *lasts

Marie: I would be very happy to help you today! Have you received written information from us in the past?

: no

Marie: If you would like, I can have a Vacation Club Guide customize a full learning package. It is complimentary and no obligation to see this in writing. They will FedEx this out to you and also email you. It will include all the pricing, vacation point charts, destinations list, a DVD and financing options.

: I see most of that information on the website. May I know how long the average contract lasts in terms of years?

Marie: Would you like to receive a complimentary learning package of information about Disney Vacation Club?

: Why are you answering my question with a question? Am I speaking with a real person?

Marie: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.

Marie: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.

: Why is this taking so long? Thanks for your time, but I will be ending this chat.


The last two responses were about 3 or 4 minutes apart and then I got no response for 7 minutes. Then I said "I will be ending this chat" and then the chat window all of the sudden had an extra post up where my original question was and the last two responses from "Marie" were back to back and then the chat ended. Here is a copy of the altered chat session:

One moment while we route your chat to a Disney Vacation Club Cast Member.

This is Marie, how may I help you with Disney Vacation Club today?

: I would like to know how the long a DVC contract lsts terms of years.

: *lasts
Marie: I would be very happy to help you today! Have you received written information from us in the past?

: no
Marie: If you would like, I can have a Vacation Club Guide customize a full learning package. It is complimentary and no obligation to see this in writing. They will FedEx this out to you and also email you. It will include all the pricing, vacation point charts, destinations list, a DVD and financing options.

: I see most of that information on the website. May I know how long the average contract lasts in terms of years?
Marie: Currently you can have your home resort at Aulani, Disney Vacation Club Villas, Ko Olina, Hawai`I, deeded until January 31, 2062, or at our newest Resort The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Hotel® & Spa which is deeded until January 31, 2064

Marie: Would you like to receive a complimentary learning package of information about Disney Vacation Club?

: Why are you answering my question with a question? Am I speaking with a real person?
Marie: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.

Marie: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.

: Why is this taking so long? Thanks for your time, but I will be ending this chat.
Marie: Since I'm an introductory person here, I'm sorry I don't have the answer to that question. I will be happy to have one of our Vacation Club Guides contact you so they can answer your question.

: Are you a real person?
Marie: I will be right with you.

Marie: To better assist you today; may I please have your name, phone number and zip code to look you up in our Disney Vacation Club data base?

Marie: We have not heard from you. Do you wish to continue the chat?

Marie: We are ending the chat since we have not heard from you.

Thank you for contacting us today. Have a magical day!

You are not currently connected to a chat representative.

Notice how my questions about contract length seems to have been answered. And when I ask a second time if it was a real person I got the last two responses and then it just ended. It was definitely strange. Also, why the long delay between responses? Who knows. Just thought I would post my "experience" with the DVC site.

ETA: It gave me barely any time to respond at the end and then the chat session ended. It was obvious they were done with me or just dont like to answer questions like that on live chat

This is really funny. I've come across these automated systems from time to time. A really good one can completely fool you if you ask the right questions that it's programmed to answer. I have no evidence to prove it, but my assumption is the vast majority of people who buy DVC are aware that it expires. For many it's considered a benefit.

On the topic of deeded property vs a lease, there are a few technical points of distinction that most DVC sales reps won't get into since most people probably never ask. A traditional timeshare has a fractional interest of an actual room at a resort (usually 1/52). You purchase it and receive a deed. The property is yours for life or until you sell it and can be passed down in a will to heirs. More recently programs started to pop up called vacation clubs or points clubs. These programs work similar to DVC where you are buying points for a fixed number of years that can be used at a variety of resorts. These are usually referred to as right to use programs and generally don't have a deed since there is no actual interest in real estate. The biggest drawback to this type of program is that you have no interest in a physical property. Your interest is in the club itself. If the club goes bankrupt you own a fractional portion of nothing. DVC is technically setup as a hybrid of these 2 models. The program works exactly like a RTU timeshare with a fixed expiration time, but they still issue you a deed which is filed with the county. Your deed states that you have a fractional ownership interest in a specific room at a specific resort but that your ownership interest reverts back to Disney on whatever the expiration date is.