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The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
ThemeParkJunkee
Well-Known Member
I don't stay off site because my BF (for some reason) adores Disney transportation and doesn't want to rent a car. We enjoy our adult beverages, do often end the day at Epcot for dinner and do not drive if imbibing. Personal preference, sure, but we are getting away with a rate about 35-40% of what we paid at BC for these particular amenities.
omurice
Well-Known Member
Do you not use DVC points to stay on property?
tirian
Well-Known Member
Be aware your bed and towels won't be as soft at the POP. The room is smaller, too.
Somehow, the food court options and consistent bus service make up for those things.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
So the idea of converting existing hotel rooms into DVC really shouldn't surprise us. Much like the initial build out in France, Disney World has overbuilt the number of hotels relative to the offerings. In addition, they've been rapidly expanding the gift that keeps on giving (DVC). We know that DVC recoups the initial investment quicker than anything else in Parks and Resorts, and they do so because the motivation for the purchase (enjoying the theme parks) isn't factored into the investment.
From a business standpoint this decision makes sense. It helps fix a problem (low occupancy rates/too many hotel rooms) and allows them to continue the cycle of new DVC resorts. However, it once again points back to Disney's lazy man diet approach to building revenue. They are the equivalent of someone that will do absolutely anything to lose weight except diet and exercise. Disney will do absolutely anything they can to increase revenue except build new attractions.
The one thing that has consistently created organic growth in theme parks is an investment in new attractions. At this point, they're barely willing to maintain what they currently have, let alone build anything new.
From a business standpoint this decision makes sense. It helps fix a problem (low occupancy rates/too many hotel rooms) and allows them to continue the cycle of new DVC resorts. However, it once again points back to Disney's lazy man diet approach to building revenue. They are the equivalent of someone that will do absolutely anything to lose weight except diet and exercise. Disney will do absolutely anything they can to increase revenue except build new attractions.
The one thing that has consistently created organic growth in theme parks is an investment in new attractions. At this point, they're barely willing to maintain what they currently have, let alone build anything new.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Probably the best analogy I've read about Disney's stance on building new attractions in WDW.
ThemeParkJunkee
Well-Known Member
I am acutely aware of what I give up by going to a Value resort. I also go camping. So, I'll just consider it "Glamping". Well, not really. I will have pools, a pool bar, a food court, a store etc. I can deal with the linens and always bring my own beach towels.
Back to topic...Because I initiated the contact for DVC purchase, I dealt with my "Guide" via phone, mail and email. I did not have to be subjected to the heavy handed sales pitches others have experienced. The "Guide" knew I had actual cash money but was not obtrusive or touting the "investment potential". He did not tout "Magical Memories". He just tried to tell me how wonderful the program was for experiencing the "Disney Difference" at many properties including cruises etc. I fully explained I would only be using my points every two years and he carefully explained the bank/borrow options. It was helpful for me to just have all the materials I needed for my own decision...including forums such as this one.
TDO is not doing a good job maintaining its DVC properties or its Deluxe resorts (insert less than stellar BC experience here). I was looking for a DVC at a convenient location but after my research...convenience isn't worth as much to me as perhaps others.
RadiatorSpringsRacer
Well-Known Member
I'd really, really like to agree with you. But weren't he and Ed Catmull just recently revealed to have been screwing over Pixar employees through some kind of anti-poaching, wage-fixing scandal?
DisneyGentleman
Well-Known Member
For me, the first 14 years were fantastic. I would buy more points if conditions warranted it. Sadly they don't.
My observation is that the place WDW is hurting most is skilled labor. Given what they want to pay, they can't get the skills they need. It takes skilled people to keep the place in top shape. WDW does not pay enough to hang on to those with skills. That translates into just about everything we've been collectively complaining about, I think.
Filling EPCOT with booze requires a whole lot less of a skilled workforce than maintaining E-ticket rides.
ThemeParkJunkee
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with this. The "Imagineering Team" (not exactly cost effective BTW) notwithstanding, those who maintain and "fix" the attractions are likely not top caliber. I happen to be "attached" so someone who is that caliber. He can fix just about any piece of equipment in any factory anywhere. He is a millwright. It took (insert name of major cereal company here) a while to figure out they needed these people with ten or more years experience in installing equipment that works instead of "maintenance workers" they had previously hired. He works as a contract vendor on site full time. When the "company" went this route, the saved money and improved productivity at the site by 60%. So is WDW being penny wise? You know the rest.
Longhairbear
Well-Known Member
IMHO, what you write applies to DVC in general.
IMHO, the conversion of WL hotel rooms to DVC (i.e. what started this thread) equally has to do with repurposing unused capacity in order to make it productive.
Once we move past the notion that Disney intends to do nothing to actually fill those empty hotel rooms with cash customers, converting the hotel rooms to DVC is exactly the right move to make.
WL runs at roughly 75% occupancy throughout the year, including rooms offered at discounted rates. Assuming half the rooms are converted to DVC, demand at current prices will exceed supply, allowing Disney to offer fewer discounts for the Wilderness Lodge. With fewer rooms available to cash customers, the hotel portion of the WL will run at a higher occupancy rate and at a higher Per Room Guest Spending (PRGS). Total revenue from the remaining hotel rooms will decline but revenue per available room (RevPAR) will increase, making the remaining hotel rooms better revenue generators on a per-square-foot basis.
Meanwhile the half of the rooms converted to DVC, rather than run at an equivalent of a 50% occupancy rate (again, assuming occupancy was at 75% before the conversion), will run at well over 95% as DVC units.
Although the half of these rooms that were occupied will generate less revenue on a per-square-foot basis, the other half (i.e. the empty rooms) will generate significantly more. Even better, unlike regular hotel rooms, DVC units are counted as two-bedroom equivalents, again improving PRGS. (Essentially, 3 'old' hotel rooms will be counted as 1 DVC unit.)
Simultaneously, Disney will be able to sell the resulting DVC points to extract equity from those converted rooms. The conversion to DVC units might cost roughly $20M but Disney will be able to sell well over 1 million points at ~$150/point, probably realizing something north of $200M in sales, a tidy little profit.
If Disney intended to adapt Universal's strategy and make their theme parks more appealing, they'd want to add hotel room capacity, like Universal. By repurposing these rooms, Disney is signaling that they have no intention of following in Universal's footsteps.
How does DVC acquire these hotel rooms for conversion? Does the hotel sell the rooms to DVC, or what kind of transaction is there between the 2 parties?
Next Big Thing
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but SSR is really near none of the parks. It's close to DTD (If you are staying in Congress Park...), but that's about it. At least CBR is close to both Epcot and DHS (with the Boardwalk being close by as well).
Nubs70
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="tirian, post: 6226380, member: 14850"SRSER=3193]@Lee[/USER] @marni1971 @ParentsOf4
One thing saddens me greatly: in everyday life, I'm one of the most optimistic people you'll meet, but it's hard to be positive about TDO. I'm beyond disgusted with the way they're operating WDW.
Remember, I sat in many meetings and had quite a look at inside ops. The majority of managers and execs sincerely believe that cheesy, saccharine pixie dust and character M&Gs epitomize The Disney Way.
I guarantee that Epcot, DHS, DAK, and the water parks wouldn't exist if today's corporate culture controlled the company in the 80s–90s.
The worst part is that as long as Wall Street is happy and international tourists raise attendance, Disney won't do much to address the property's issues. Entrance turnstiles are still clicking.[/QUOTE]
This is the Stockholder Emotional Investment (SEI).
Nubs70
Well-Known Member
You were not in that far. I can guarantee you it gets worse the deeper you go. To the point where you be standing on top of the meeting table having a Ren Hoek style meltdown, screaming "What in the he'll are you doooooing!!!!!"I wasn't THAT far in!
I was just around for the presentations. (They were depressing!)
Nemo14
Well-Known Member
The thing is, it hasn't always been this way. Our first experience staying on property goes back to the very early 90's, before Value resorts and before DVC. We were a family of 4 with 2 very young children, and we scrimped and saved to be able to afford the $85 per night it cost for us to stay at CBR. We loved every bit of it though - the pools, the food court, and even the bus service just blew us away, so we returned for the next couple of years.
During the next few years,we moved up to staying at the GF and the BC,thanks to an awesome discount we got through a CM friend. The service then was amazing, the rooms were spotless, but the bus service even back then was not that great. I do remember Pluto swimming in the pool with my kids though at the GF, which was just so much fun.
As much as we had loved the CBR, there was a very noticeable step up to the Deluxe hotels, that at the time we felt was more than we, as a family with younger kids, needed. DH and I vowed that we'd come back to deluxes alone some day when the kids were grown.
Now, some 20 years later, as experienced travelers we know what a deluxe resort is, and it's not at WDW. I think it probably was close years ago, but unfortunately not now.
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scout68
Well-Known Member
Longhairbear
Well-Known Member
We bought our DVC at Wilderness in 2003 after years of staying at CBR, Dixie Landings, CS, etc. We broke even at 5 years on our DVC at VWL, because we paid off the loan in cash. We are not the Walmart crowd, but have seen it.
Hotrodding down the VWL hallways on the lower rack of the dishwasher explains why ours was missing wheels. Of course we reported it.
We report every single thing that is missing, or wrong while we are there, albeit, we haven't been back in five years, to FLA, not just VWL. We saw the One Disney Refurb at Wilderness Villas in our DVC Files magazine. It's plain to see it will match whatever they do to the room conversions. I did send an Email to Member Services about my displeasure, but was not home for the follow up telephone call.
And as many others have remarked, on other sites, even the Pixie Dusted ones, when we decide to go back to FLA, we'll be renting a car for the first time ever, to go see Harry.
Hotrodding down the VWL hallways on the lower rack of the dishwasher explains why ours was missing wheels. Of course we reported it.
We report every single thing that is missing, or wrong while we are there, albeit, we haven't been back in five years, to FLA, not just VWL. We saw the One Disney Refurb at Wilderness Villas in our DVC Files magazine. It's plain to see it will match whatever they do to the room conversions. I did send an Email to Member Services about my displeasure, but was not home for the follow up telephone call.
And as many others have remarked, on other sites, even the Pixie Dusted ones, when we decide to go back to FLA, we'll be renting a car for the first time ever, to go see Harry.
yensid67
Well-Known Member
Your BF can still enjoy Disney Transportation if you stay off site. Just park at Disney Springs, or walk if close enough and catch a bus to wherever you want to start you transportation journey!
yensid67
Well-Known Member
Which is...?I always like to know the options out there.
Hey Crispy,
I don't travel often, but I have travelled some and found that The Clarion Lake Buena Vista was VERY comforting, a lot of amenities on site, and close enough to walk to Disney Springs and catch a Disney bus! Its no glitz and glamour here, just a simple COMFORTABLE hotel and room. Any of the Rosen hotels are very nice and for trumps Disney just on price. It offers 2 pools and splash zone for kids, a playground, a game room, a bar, a convenience store, a restaurant and laundry. The rooms have been through a multi-million dollar refurb a few years ago with frig and micro in every room at NO CHARGE! and all beds have pillow top mattresses...what else could you want from a room!? (ALL Rosen properties have been renovated in the past 2 years and the 'value' hotels look the same, while you still have a choice to stay with Rosen brand and choose a more expensive hotel within their brand)
You should check Rosen properties out...
The Clarion LBV, The Quality Inn(I-drive behind McD's), The Rosen Inn(I-drive across from Wet n Wild) and another'value' hotel on the southside of I-drive just off Sand Lake! Shingle Creek (2 Hotels) is their more expensive hotels for those who wish to spend the money.
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danpam1024
Well-Known Member
DH and I were talking about the same thing @Nemo14 . We used to scrimp and pinch and save for months to afford POFQ (before the values) and felt like it was so worth it. Goofy ate lunch with DS in the food court, lifeguards threw doobloons in the pool, Bon Families made awesome french toast, etc.... Then, as our incomes grew and we became more successful we moved up the the deluxes- BWI. And it was still worth it. Then one day it wasn't. We felt like cattle being herded to slaughter, but they took all our money on the way. The room rates are BEYOND absurd. Can we afford it- absolutely, but I will never again pay it. There is nothing left of value- location just doesn't do it for us anymore. Especially when I can go down the street for a better hotel at half the price. Complete arrogance IMO of course