The Spirited 11th Hour ...

[hokielutz]

Not to get too carried away for the next project...

But a name suggestion for your next mega thread: 'The Twelfth Night' Since it does take the better or most of 12 nights of late hour reading just to catchup on all of the twists and news.

 

[BrianLo]

Growth vs Maintenance CAPEX, Saying 'ONE BILLION DOLLARS' in one's best Dr Evil voice is meaningless unless we know what portion is tasked for maintenance and repair of existing capital assets vs NEW capital assets or if depreciation is greater than 'ONE BILLION DOLLARS' well CAPEX is in that case negative and WDW has indeed had negative capex in years pasts as documented in @ParentsOf4 very informative CAPEX charts.

I have not bothered to calculate this quarter's CAPEX numbers as I'm slowly starting to no longer care what happens at WDW. After 30 years well perhaps it's time just to think about the good times past and not give a damn about WDW going forward.

I understand the point you are making, but it's pretty meaningless when discussing New cruise ships. There is no maintenance or repair budget to consider here, their current fleet does not factor. Their recent two builds cost 900 million a pop 5 years ago. These two bigger ships will at least run a billion...

Therefore Disney (domestic parks and resorts) is spending 2+ Billion Dollars on NEW capital assets for two cruise ships. End of story, no funny math required.

 

[ford91exploder]

I understand the point you are making, but it's pretty meaningless when discussing New cruise ships. There is no maintenance or repair budget to consider here, their current fleet does not factor. Their recent two builds cost 900 million a pop 5 years ago. These two bigger ships will at least run a billion...

Therefore Disney (domestic parks and resorts) is spending 2+ Billion Dollars on NEW capital assets for two cruise ships. End of story, no funny math required.

It matters a lot if the maintenance on the CURRENT fleet is cut to help pay for the new ships, And at least from the cruise boards Disney's older ships are starting to look a bit worn, i.e. worn carpets and furniture , rust on the superstructure and hull have not seen it personally but I have seen pictures and here is a snippet from the Disney Cruise Blog

In Miami, you enter thru Deck 4 instead of Deck 3. The first thing you notice is that the walls on Deck 4 need a coat of paint, and the rust is prevalent, and it seems dirty; that ‘wow’ factor is missing as you enter and see the elevators and stairwell. Entering via deck 4 is a result of the configuration of PortMiami, not a choice by Disney. The Promenade Lounge went untouched as well, as the faded booths actually have visible rips in them, among many other things that shows the age of it.

 

[Cesar R M]

I find it quite humorous that you complain about non-investment in WDW while listing over a billion dollars in investment in WDW (and don't forget about all the investment in the shopping mall and the recent investment in MK for NFL/Hub!).

paging @ford91exploder to mention percentage of CapEx

does the shopping mall even counts?
Also, you cant say expansions and investments while not mentioning the big cuts on parks.

 

[Cesar R M]

Too bad they cut all the employees to staff them. Silly investing in booths that no one can use!

self serving buffet stations?
or perhaps they're going Japan with high tech automated food vending machines?

 

[Cesar R M]

I'm really happy Big Hero 6 will be a tv show on Disney XD. Finally more merch! It really got the short in of the stick because of the serious demand for Frozen at the time.

wait a sec, is there news about this? id love to see!

 

[Andrew C]

It matters a lot if the maintenance on the CURRENT fleet is cut to help pay for the new ships, And at least from the cruise boards Disney's older ships are starting to look a bit worn, i.e. worn carpets and furniture , rust on the superstructure and hull have not seen it personally but I have seen pictures and here is a snippet from the Disney Cruise Blog

In Miami, you enter thru Deck 4 instead of Deck 3. The first thing you notice is that the walls on Deck 4 need a coat of paint, and the rust is prevalent, and it seems dirty; that ‘wow’ factor is missing as you enter and see the elevators and stairwell. Entering via deck 4 is a result of the configuration of PortMiami, not a choice by Disney. The Promenade Lounge went untouched as well, as the faded booths actually have visible rips in them, among many other things that shows the age of it.

Are you pretending to talk about the Magic or the Wonder?

 

[Cesar R M]

It's rather humorous that this hair is never split when discussing the MM+ "debacle".

because you cant split hairs there, you split magicbands and magical pins

It matters a lot if the maintenance on the CURRENT fleet is cut to help pay for the new ships, And at least from the cruise boards Disney's older ships are starting to look a bit worn, i.e. worn carpets and furniture , rust on the superstructure and hull have not seen it personally but I have seen pictures and here is a snippet from the Disney Cruise Blog

In Miami, you enter thru Deck 4 instead of Deck 3. The first thing you notice is that the walls on Deck 4 need a coat of paint, and the rust is prevalent, and it seems dirty; that ‘wow’ factor is missing as you enter and see the elevators and stairwell. Entering via deck 4 is a result of the configuration of PortMiami, not a choice by Disney. The Promenade Lounge went untouched as well, as the faded booths actually have visible rips in them, among many other things that shows the age of it.

Probably because they had delayed the dry port maintenance on the Wonder for so long, and now the Dream as well.

 

[BrianLo]

It matters a lot if the maintenance on the CURRENT fleet is cut to help pay for the new ships,

Sure (which wasn't your actual point though, it was trying to establish that Capex is not representative of how much money they spend on NEW assets). Is maintenance on the current fleet being cut to pay for new ships?

Looks to me like two ships just went though dry dock last Fall and the Wonder is scheduled for a two month dry dock this one...

Find me a cruise line that dry docked 3/4 of the fleet in 2015-2016.........

 

[sshindel]

does the shopping mall even counts?
Also, you cant say expansions and investments while not mentioning the big cuts on parks.

Does shopping malls counts? Depends on your usage of Disney Springs previously (and the giant empty space that was PI) and how much you may use it in the future. To me, it counts because I did not go before but will likely go now. I know most folks somehow only care about the parks (unless there is something happening that they can complain about), but I am considering the entire resort when I speak of WDW.

And can you quantify massive cuts? I've heard cuts, sure, but temporary. None of the cuts I've seen have been aimed at cutting investment in the construction projects.

 

[ScoutN]

It matters a lot if the maintenance on the CURRENT fleet is cut to help pay for the new ships

Good thing maintenance is not being cut to pay for them.

And at least from the cruise boards Disney's older ships are starting to look a bit worn, i.e. worn carpets and furniture , rust on the superstructure and hull have not seen it personally but I have seen pictures and here is a snippet from the Disney Cruise Blog

The older ships are? Sure. I have just been on MAGIC recently and it is sparkling. IIRC @wm49rs has, as well. I am sure he would more than concur on that matter.

Rust on the hull? LOL. Ocean water is salt water which is highly corrosive. One tiny area naked to the eye can result in a rapid spread of rust. Have you ever been on a Disney Cruise? One trip with them makes it very clear just how much maintenance DCL puts into their vessels on a rolling basis.

DCL makes great use of having their own island where they can pull directly up to it. It allows large rolling maintenance that other lines cannot accomplish all the way down to genie lifts to paint hulls. They paint on every stop at CC to extents that no other lines do. They also power wash their vessels at CC from top down which other lines only do on the top deck windows. But do not fret, as DCL has crews that paint other areas on the exterior at general ports as well as power-washing the same windows other lines are.

Take a DCL trip and pull in a port beside a CCL, RCCL, NCL, HLACL, CXCL, etc and you will notice nothing but rust stains running down from all orifices of the their vessels' exteriors. You will not notice that on a DCL vessel.

The only time when a lack of exterior maintenance could possibly be views is when a vessel is not on an itinerary that makes a call at CC. They then do not have that infrastructure to do large maintenance items that they typically do. @jakeman can attest to that fact as he has been on MAGIC in Europe and Bahamas.

Each night DCL also has crews all over their vessels repairing worn carpet. They have supplies of mattresses in-case any are deemed sub-par. Furniture, flatware, curtains, upholstery, etc are all stocked up in-case something is deemed below standards. Carpets throughout the ships are also shampooed nightly to ensure their cleanliness and shine. That is well above and beyond that of any other competitor.

In Miami, you enter thru Deck 4 instead of Deck 3. The first thing you notice is that the walls on Deck 4 need a coat of paint, and the rust is prevalent, and it seems dirty; that ‘wow’ factor is missing as you enter and see the elevators and stairwell. Entering via deck 4 is a result of the configuration of PortMiami, not a choice by Disney. The Promenade Lounge went untouched as well, as the faded booths actually have visible rips in them, among many other things that shows the age of it.

In case you aren't familiar with how marine vessel maintenance works, you cannot just "paint over rust." Certain types of rust in specific locations must get blasted down to bare metal. Environmental controls to do so are very strict and cannot be accomplished just anywhere. You will be hard pressed to find that on MAGIC, DREAM, or FANTASY.

WONDER is slated for a long duration Dry-Docking this Fall and is currently the ship that has gone the longest without out of service maintenance. After her August 26 14-night Eastbound Panamanian voyage she has no cruises until November 10 out of Galveston. That duration of Dry-Docking is no cheap maintenance task and most certainly will not just be sitting there without work being done. The logistics of the ship-repair industry do not allow as they would lose massive amounts of money.

While she has some items that are in need of attention and has not received maintenance others have there are reasons, and they are good reasons. She is certainly about to get that attention that she deserves. It also cannot be glossed over just how much work they have accomplished while keeping her in service. You do not just simply get onto a yard's DD docket at the drop of a hat. With the Eastbound Panamanian Voyage ending in PC and the next one being in Galveston one would logically assume that the DD will be in Freeport. Freeport services more cruise-line vessels than any other DD on the planet after US law changed the Visa Program allowing them to be serviced at US ports like MAGIC in Norfolk, Va. I cannot reasonably see them traversing to Spain each direction with an empty vessel to accomplish such work.

WONDER would presumably receive the same treat that MAGIC did 30 months ago (which was large scale with a near entire gutting of certain areas and the entire exterior being blasted down to metal). The Canal expansion in Panama completion date has been pushed back in an official capacity around three different time. The current completion date will more than likely be the completion date as they gave themselves a great cushion. Had WONDER received this treatment before this west-coast it would have nixed all voyages out there. That would have been foolish on an entirely new level. Sailing around the horn of South America is always possible but would be a much longer voyage from Miami or PC than most people would or could take. Weather down there is very temperamental, also.

Now we can tally up where the fleet stands.

MAGIC~ 30 months removed from a large scale, very in-depth Dry-Docking and renovation. A lot of upkeep performed while docked at CC when east coast, including extra attention post-European routes. Personal experience holds her in outstanding condition, especially when compared to other Cruise Lines.

WONDER~ About to receive a very involved Dry-Docking, likely on the same scale as MAGIC. She receives a large amount of exterior maintenance while in CC. Soft goods have been replaced and modernized, not in Holiday Inn fashion. Still in far better condition than competitor Cruise Lines.

DREAM~ Nearly five years old. She just came out of a Dry-Docking six months ago where a good amount of money was spent on her to plus offerings from adult areas to kids areas. Her hull was redone with its more eco-friendly and slippery coating that DCL now uses beginning with DREAM's debut.

FANTASY~ Nearly 4 years old and presumably about to receive the same attention as DREAM in the next 18-24 months. Her condition is outstanding. She has had one fluke mechanical issue that caused CC to be missed this year that could happen to any vessel. An issue that DCL very quickly rectified and turned her around on time.

All of those compounded with the ongoing maintenance of painting, which you see many wet paint sides nearly every boarding, re-carpeting all over the ship on a rolling basis, shampooing of carpets on a rolling basis, light bulbs always being changed(!), and much more. We also cannot ignore the fact that DCL splurged for MOBAS when nearly none of their competitors have done as such.

The cruise industry is a far different area of business than theme parks. While DCL certainly has their addicts that will come regardless, a larger portion (much larger than theme parks) are looking for value and take note of every little detail. If that large portion are unsatisfied with the offerings then they will not hesitate to go elsewhere. DCL cannot afford to let that happen and will not let that happen, otherwise their prices, that are adjusted on a near daily basis, will begin to fall. With ships you cannot simply just mark rooms out of inventory. This industry just does not work that way.

My fiance was on Oasis first of January, ironic since January 2015 we were on MAGIC when MAGIC plucked the MOB from Oasis out o the water, and she was completely disappointed with it. She is very detailed oriented and will take our trips elsewhere if she feels the value has dropped for what we pay. She could not understand how a six and a half year old vessel is completely eclipsed on condition by an eighteen year old vessel.

 

[wm49rs]

Good thing maintenance is not being cut to pay for them.



The older ships are? Sure. I have just been on MAGIC recently and it is sparkling. IIRC @wm49rs has, as well. I am sure he would more than concur on that matter.

Rust on the hull? LOL. Ocean water is salt water which is highly corrosive. One tiny area naked to the eye can result in a rapid spread of rust. Have you ever been on a Disney Cruise? One trip with them makes it very clear just how much maintenance DCL puts into their vessels on a rolling basis.

DCL makes great use of having their own island where they can pull directly up to it. It allows large rolling maintenance that other lines cannot accomplish all the way down to genie lifts to paint hulls. They paint on every stop at CC to extents that no other lines do. They also power wash their vessels at CC from top down which other lines only do on the top deck windows. But do not fret, as DCL has crews that paint other areas on the exterior at general ports as well as power-washing the same windows other lines are.

Take a DCL trip and pull in a port beside a CCL, RCCL, NCL, HLACL, CXCL, etc and you will notice nothing but rust stains running down from all orifices of the their vessels' exteriors. You will not notice that on a DCL vessel.

The only time when a lack of exterior maintenance could possibly be views is when a vessel is not on an itinerary that makes a call at CC. They then do not have that infrastructure to do large maintenance items that they typically do. @jakeman can attest to that fact as he has been on MAGIC in Europe and Bahamas.

Each night DCL also has crews all over their vessels repairing worn carpet. They have supplies of mattresses in-case any are deemed sub-par. Furniture, flatware, curtains, upholstery, etc are all stocked up in-case something is deemed below standards. Carpets throughout the ships are also shampooed nightly to ensure their cleanliness and shine. That is well above and beyond that of any other competitor.



In case you aren't familiar with how marine vessel maintenance works, you cannot just "paint over rust." Certain types of rust in specific locations must get blasted down to bare metal. Environmental controls to do so are very strict and cannot be accomplished just anywhere. You will be hard pressed to find that on MAGIC, DREAM, or FANTASY.

WONDER is slated for a long duration Dry-Docking this Fall and is currently the ship that has gone the longest without out of service maintenance. After her August 26 14-night Eastbound Panamanian voyage she has no cruises until November 10 out of Galveston. That duration of Dry-Docking is no cheap maintenance task and most certainly will not just be sitting there without work being done. The logistics of the ship-repair industry do not allow as they would lose massive amounts of money.

While she has some items that are in need of attention and has not received maintenance others have there are reasons, and they are good reasons. She is certainly about to get that attention that she deserves. It also cannot be glossed over just how much work they have accomplished while keeping her in service. You do not just simply get onto a yard's DD docket at the drop of a hat. With the Eastbound Panamanian Voyage ending in PC and the next one being in Galveston one would logically assume that the DD will be in Freeport. Freeport services more cruise-line vessels than any other DD on the planet after US law changed the Visa Program allowing them to be serviced at US ports like MAGIC in Norfolk, Va. I cannot reasonably see them traversing to Spain each direction with an empty vessel to accomplish such work.

WONDER would presumably receive the same treat that MAGIC did 30 months ago (which was large scale with a near entire gutting of certain areas and the entire exterior being blasted down to metal). The Canal expansion in Panama completion date has been pushed back in an official capacity around three different time. The current completion date will more than likely be the completion date as they gave themselves a great cushion. Had WONDER received this treatment before this west-coast it would have nixed all voyages out there. That would have been foolish on an entirely new level. Sailing around the horn of South America is always possible but would be a much longer voyage from Miami or PC than most people would or could take. Weather down there is very temperamental, also.

Now we can tally up where the fleet stands.

MAGIC~ 30 months removed from a large scale, very in-depth Dry-Docking and renovation. A lot of upkeep performed while docked at CC when east coast, including extra attention post-European routes. Personal experience holds her in outstanding condition, especially when compared to other Cruise Lines.

WONDER~ About to receive a very involved Dry-Docking, likely on the same scale as MAGIC. She receives a large amount of exterior maintenance while in CC. Soft goods have been replaced and modernized, not in Holiday Inn fashion. Still in far better condition than competitor Cruise Lines.

DREAM~ Nearly five years old. She just came out of a Dry-Docking six months ago where a good amount of money was spent on her to plus offerings from adult areas to kids areas. Her hull was redone with its more eco-friendly and slippery coating that DCL now uses beginning with DREAM's debut.

FANTASY~ Nearly 4 years old and presumably about to receive the same attention as DREAM in the next 18-24 months. Her condition is outstanding. She has had one fluke mechanical issue that caused CC to be missed this year that could happen to any vessel. An issue that DCL very quickly rectified and turned her around on time.

All of those compounded with the ongoing maintenance of painting, which you see many wet paint sides nearly every boarding, re-carpeting all over the ship on a rolling basis, shampooing of carpets on a rolling basis, light bulbs always being changed(!), and much more. We also cannot ignore the fact that DCL splurged for MOBAS when nearly none of their competitors have done as such.

The cruise industry is a far different area of business than theme parks. While DCL certainly has their addicts that will come regardless, a larger portion (much larger than theme parks) are looking for value and take note of every little detail. If that large portion are unsatisfied with the offerings then they will not hesitate to go elsewhere. DCL cannot afford to let that happen and will not let that happen, otherwise their prices, that are adjusted on a near daily basis, will begin to fall. With ships you cannot simply just mark rooms out of inventory. This industry just does not work that way.

My fiance was on Oasis first of January, ironic since January 2015 we were on MAGIC when MAGIC plucked the MOB from Oasis out o the water, and she was completely disappointed with it. She is very detailed oriented and will take our trips elsewhere if she feels the value has dropped for what we pay. She could not understand how a six and a half year old vessel is completely eclipsed on condition by an eighteen year old vessel.

As the kids on the street may say, prats gotta prattle....

 

[asianway]

Good thing maintenance is not being cut to pay for them.



The older ships are? Sure. I have just been on MAGIC recently and it is sparkling. IIRC @wm49rs has, as well. I am sure he would more than concur on that matter.

Rust on the hull? LOL. Ocean water is salt water which is highly corrosive. One tiny area naked to the eye can result in a rapid spread of rust. Have you ever been on a Disney Cruise? One trip with them makes it very clear just how much maintenance DCL puts into their vessels on a rolling basis.

DCL makes great use of having their own island where they can pull directly up to it. It allows large rolling maintenance that other lines cannot accomplish all the way down to genie lifts to paint hulls. They paint on every stop at CC to extents that no other lines do. They also power wash their vessels at CC from top down which other lines only do on the top deck windows. But do not fret, as DCL has crews that paint other areas on the exterior at general ports as well as power-washing the same windows other lines are.

Take a DCL trip and pull in a port beside a CCL, RCCL, NCL, HLACL, CXCL, etc and you will notice nothing but rust stains running down from all orifices of the their vessels' exteriors. You will not notice that on a DCL vessel.

The only time when a lack of exterior maintenance could possibly be views is when a vessel is not on an itinerary that makes a call at CC. They then do not have that infrastructure to do large maintenance items that they typically do. @jakeman can attest to that fact as he has been on MAGIC in Europe and Bahamas.

Each night DCL also has crews all over their vessels repairing worn carpet. They have supplies of mattresses in-case any are deemed sub-par. Furniture, flatware, curtains, upholstery, etc are all stocked up in-case something is deemed below standards. Carpets throughout the ships are also shampooed nightly to ensure their cleanliness and shine. That is well above and beyond that of any other competitor.



In case you aren't familiar with how marine vessel maintenance works, you cannot just "paint over rust." Certain types of rust in specific locations must get blasted down to bare metal. Environmental controls to do so are very strict and cannot be accomplished just anywhere. You will be hard pressed to find that on MAGIC, DREAM, or FANTASY.

WONDER is slated for a long duration Dry-Docking this Fall and is currently the ship that has gone the longest without out of service maintenance. After her August 26 14-night Eastbound Panamanian voyage she has no cruises until November 10 out of Galveston. That duration of Dry-Docking is no cheap maintenance task and most certainly will not just be sitting there without work being done. The logistics of the ship-repair industry do not allow as they would lose massive amounts of money.

While she has some items that are in need of attention and has not received maintenance others have there are reasons, and they are good reasons. She is certainly about to get that attention that she deserves. It also cannot be glossed over just how much work they have accomplished while keeping her in service. You do not just simply get onto a yard's DD docket at the drop of a hat. With the Eastbound Panamanian Voyage ending in PC and the next one being in Galveston one would logically assume that the DD will be in Freeport. Freeport services more cruise-line vessels than any other DD on the planet after US law changed the Visa Program allowing them to be serviced at US ports like MAGIC in Norfolk, Va. I cannot reasonably see them traversing to Spain each direction with an empty vessel to accomplish such work.

WONDER would presumably receive the same treat that MAGIC did 30 months ago (which was large scale with a near entire gutting of certain areas and the entire exterior being blasted down to metal). The Canal expansion in Panama completion date has been pushed back in an official capacity around three different time. The current completion date will more than likely be the completion date as they gave themselves a great cushion. Had WONDER received this treatment before this west-coast it would have nixed all voyages out there. That would have been foolish on an entirely new level. Sailing around the horn of South America is always possible but would be a much longer voyage from Miami or PC than most people would or could take. Weather down there is very temperamental, also.

Now we can tally up where the fleet stands.

MAGIC~ 30 months removed from a large scale, very in-depth Dry-Docking and renovation. A lot of upkeep performed while docked at CC when east coast, including extra attention post-European routes. Personal experience holds her in outstanding condition, especially when compared to other Cruise Lines.

WONDER~ About to receive a very involved Dry-Docking, likely on the same scale as MAGIC. She receives a large amount of exterior maintenance while in CC. Soft goods have been replaced and modernized, not in Holiday Inn fashion. Still in far better condition than competitor Cruise Lines.

DREAM~ Nearly five years old. She just came out of a Dry-Docking six months ago where a good amount of money was spent on her to plus offerings from adult areas to kids areas. Her hull was redone with its more eco-friendly and slippery coating that DCL now uses beginning with DREAM's debut.

FANTASY~ Nearly 4 years old and presumably about to receive the same attention as DREAM in the next 18-24 months. Her condition is outstanding. She has had one fluke mechanical issue that caused CC to be missed this year that could happen to any vessel. An issue that DCL very quickly rectified and turned her around on time.

All of those compounded with the ongoing maintenance of painting, which you see many wet paint sides nearly every boarding, re-carpeting all over the ship on a rolling basis, shampooing of carpets on a rolling basis, light bulbs always being changed(!), and much more. We also cannot ignore the fact that DCL splurged for MOBAS when nearly none of their competitors have done as such.

The cruise industry is a far different area of business than theme parks. While DCL certainly has their addicts that will come regardless, a larger portion (much larger than theme parks) are looking for value and take note of every little detail. If that large portion are unsatisfied with the offerings then they will not hesitate to go elsewhere. DCL cannot afford to let that happen and will not let that happen, otherwise their prices, that are adjusted on a near daily basis, will begin to fall. With ships you cannot simply just mark rooms out of inventory. This industry just does not work that way.

My fiance was on Oasis first of January, ironic since January 2015 we were on MAGIC when MAGIC plucked the MOB from Oasis out o the water, and she was completely disappointed with it. She is very detailed oriented and will take our trips elsewhere if she feels the value has dropped for what we pay. She could not understand how a six and a half year old vessel is completely eclipsed on condition by an eighteen year old vessel.

Everything you said is spot on. Only cuts I've noticed was about a year and a half ago they reduced the number of character performer. You will rarely see Mickey and Minnie meet together as a result where before it was commonplace.

And post dry dock the dream started charging for food in more outlets than palo/remy for the sports bar food and the ice cream shop. In addition tithe great all hands on deck room service scandal

 

[ScoutN]

Everything you said is spot on. Only cuts I've noticed was about a year and a half ago they reduced the number of character performer. You will rarely see Mickey and Minnie meet together as a result where before it was commonplace.

And post dry dock the dream started charging for food in more outlets than palo/remy for the sports bar food and the ice cream shop. In addition tithe great all hands on deck room service scandal

I cannot say that we have noticed a drop in performers and I am sure that there are many variables that dictate those. We even encountered Sparrow stumbling down Serenity Bay which was really one of the coolest things that I have seen.

Some of the food charges don't bother me and do not surprise me, especially the gelato. It is far better than certain competitors that nearly force you into up-charge venues just to be able to eat.

 

[Tay]

wait a sec, is there news about this? id love to see!

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/02/big-hero-6-tv-series-disney-xd

 

[asianway]

I cannot say that we have noticed a drop in performers and I am sure that there are many variables that dictate those. We even encountered Sparrow stumbling down Serenity Bay which was really one of the coolest things that I have seen.

Some of the food charges don't bother me and do not surprise me, especially the gelato. It is far better than certain competitors that nearly force you into up-charge venues just to be able to eat.

It was a very discreet cut in entertainment. The broken sets is the only thing you'd notice other than the princess meet n greet losing 1.

I'm not broken up about those two up charges in the outlets but taking free cheese and crackers and jacking it to what $30? I'm more concerned about what comes next

 

[peter11435]

I'm not broken up about those two up charges in the outlets but taking free cheese and crackers and jacking it to what $30? I'm more concerned about what comes next

That was a stupid move. But at least they brought it back.

 

[Voxel]

Good thing maintenance is not being cut to pay for them.



The older ships are? Sure. I have just been on MAGIC recently and it is sparkling. IIRC @wm49rs has, as well. I am sure he would more than concur on that matter.

Rust on the hull? LOL. Ocean water is salt water which is highly corrosive. One tiny area naked to the eye can result in a rapid spread of rust. Have you ever been on a Disney Cruise? One trip with them makes it very clear just how much maintenance DCL puts into their vessels on a rolling basis.

DCL makes great use of having their own island where they can pull directly up to it. It allows large rolling maintenance that other lines cannot accomplish all the way down to genie lifts to paint hulls. They paint on every stop at CC to extents that no other lines do. They also power wash their vessels at CC from top down which other lines only do on the top deck windows. But do not fret, as DCL has crews that paint other areas on the exterior at general ports as well as power-washing the same windows other lines are.

Take a DCL trip and pull in a port beside a CCL, RCCL, NCL, HLACL, CXCL, etc and you will notice nothing but rust stains running down from all orifices of the their vessels' exteriors. You will not notice that on a DCL vessel.

The only time when a lack of exterior maintenance could possibly be views is when a vessel is not on an itinerary that makes a call at CC. They then do not have that infrastructure to do large maintenance items that they typically do. @jakeman can attest to that fact as he has been on MAGIC in Europe and Bahamas.

Each night DCL also has crews all over their vessels repairing worn carpet. They have supplies of mattresses in-case any are deemed sub-par. Furniture, flatware, curtains, upholstery, etc are all stocked up in-case something is deemed below standards. Carpets throughout the ships are also shampooed nightly to ensure their cleanliness and shine. That is well above and beyond that of any other competitor.



In case you aren't familiar with how marine vessel maintenance works, you cannot just "paint over rust." Certain types of rust in specific locations must get blasted down to bare metal. Environmental controls to do so are very strict and cannot be accomplished just anywhere. You will be hard pressed to find that on MAGIC, DREAM, or FANTASY.

WONDER is slated for a long duration Dry-Docking this Fall and is currently the ship that has gone the longest without out of service maintenance. After her August 26 14-night Eastbound Panamanian voyage she has no cruises until November 10 out of Galveston. That duration of Dry-Docking is no cheap maintenance task and most certainly will not just be sitting there without work being done. The logistics of the ship-repair industry do not allow as they would lose massive amounts of money.

While she has some items that are in need of attention and has not received maintenance others have there are reasons, and they are good reasons. She is certainly about to get that attention that she deserves. It also cannot be glossed over just how much work they have accomplished while keeping her in service. You do not just simply get onto a yard's DD docket at the drop of a hat. With the Eastbound Panamanian Voyage ending in PC and the next one being in Galveston one would logically assume that the DD will be in Freeport. Freeport services more cruise-line vessels than any other DD on the planet after US law changed the Visa Program allowing them to be serviced at US ports like MAGIC in Norfolk, Va. I cannot reasonably see them traversing to Spain each direction with an empty vessel to accomplish such work.

WONDER would presumably receive the same treat that MAGIC did 30 months ago (which was large scale with a near entire gutting of certain areas and the entire exterior being blasted down to metal). The Canal expansion in Panama completion date has been pushed back in an official capacity around three different time. The current completion date will more than likely be the completion date as they gave themselves a great cushion. Had WONDER received this treatment before this west-coast it would have nixed all voyages out there. That would have been foolish on an entirely new level. Sailing around the horn of South America is always possible but would be a much longer voyage from Miami or PC than most people would or could take. Weather down there is very temperamental, also.

Now we can tally up where the fleet stands.

MAGIC~ 30 months removed from a large scale, very in-depth Dry-Docking and renovation. A lot of upkeep performed while docked at CC when east coast, including extra attention post-European routes. Personal experience holds her in outstanding condition, especially when compared to other Cruise Lines.

WONDER~ About to receive a very involved Dry-Docking, likely on the same scale as MAGIC. She receives a large amount of exterior maintenance while in CC. Soft goods have been replaced and modernized, not in Holiday Inn fashion. Still in far better condition than competitor Cruise Lines.

DREAM~ Nearly five years old. She just came out of a Dry-Docking six months ago where a good amount of money was spent on her to plus offerings from adult areas to kids areas. Her hull was redone with its more eco-friendly and slippery coating that DCL now uses beginning with DREAM's debut.

FANTASY~ Nearly 4 years old and presumably about to receive the same attention as DREAM in the next 18-24 months. Her condition is outstanding. She has had one fluke mechanical issue that caused CC to be missed this year that could happen to any vessel. An issue that DCL very quickly rectified and turned her around on time.

All of those compounded with the ongoing maintenance of painting, which you see many wet paint sides nearly every boarding, re-carpeting all over the ship on a rolling basis, shampooing of carpets on a rolling basis, light bulbs always being changed(!), and much more. We also cannot ignore the fact that DCL splurged for MOBAS when nearly none of their competitors have done as such.

The cruise industry is a far different area of business than theme parks. While DCL certainly has their addicts that will come regardless, a larger portion (much larger than theme parks) are looking for value and take note of every little detail. If that large portion are unsatisfied with the offerings then they will not hesitate to go elsewhere. DCL cannot afford to let that happen and will not let that happen, otherwise their prices, that are adjusted on a near daily basis, will begin to fall. With ships you cannot simply just mark rooms out of inventory. This industry just does not work that way.

My fiance was on Oasis first of January, ironic since January 2015 we were on MAGIC when MAGIC plucked the MOB from Oasis out o the water, and she was completely disappointed with it. She is very detailed oriented and will take our trips elsewhere if she feels the value has dropped for what we pay. She could not understand how a six and a half year old vessel is completely eclipsed on condition by an eighteen year old vessel.

***Slow Clap***

 

[ford91exploder]

self serving buffet stations?
or perhaps they're going Japan with high tech automated food vending machines?

Or a Robotic Chinese Noodle Chef.

 

[Mike S]

Good thing maintenance is not being cut to pay for them.



The older ships are? Sure. I have just been on MAGIC recently and it is sparkling. IIRC @wm49rs has, as well. I am sure he would more than concur on that matter.

Rust on the hull? LOL. Ocean water is salt water which is highly corrosive. One tiny area naked to the eye can result in a rapid spread of rust. Have you ever been on a Disney Cruise? One trip with them makes it very clear just how much maintenance DCL puts into their vessels on a rolling basis.

DCL makes great use of having their own island where they can pull directly up to it. It allows large rolling maintenance that other lines cannot accomplish all the way down to genie lifts to paint hulls. They paint on every stop at CC to extents that no other lines do. They also power wash their vessels at CC from top down which other lines only do on the top deck windows. But do not fret, as DCL has crews that paint other areas on the exterior at general ports as well as power-washing the same windows other lines are.

Take a DCL trip and pull in a port beside a CCL, RCCL, NCL, HLACL, CXCL, etc and you will notice nothing but rust stains running down from all orifices of the their vessels' exteriors. You will not notice that on a DCL vessel.

The only time when a lack of exterior maintenance could possibly be views is when a vessel is not on an itinerary that makes a call at CC. They then do not have that infrastructure to do large maintenance items that they typically do. @jakeman can attest to that fact as he has been on MAGIC in Europe and Bahamas.

Each night DCL also has crews all over their vessels repairing worn carpet. They have supplies of mattresses in-case any are deemed sub-par. Furniture, flatware, curtains, upholstery, etc are all stocked up in-case something is deemed below standards. Carpets throughout the ships are also shampooed nightly to ensure their cleanliness and shine. That is well above and beyond that of any other competitor.



In case you aren't familiar with how marine vessel maintenance works, you cannot just "paint over rust." Certain types of rust in specific locations must get blasted down to bare metal. Environmental controls to do so are very strict and cannot be accomplished just anywhere. You will be hard pressed to find that on MAGIC, DREAM, or FANTASY.

WONDER is slated for a long duration Dry-Docking this Fall and is currently the ship that has gone the longest without out of service maintenance. After her August 26 14-night Eastbound Panamanian voyage she has no cruises until November 10 out of Galveston. That duration of Dry-Docking is no cheap maintenance task and most certainly will not just be sitting there without work being done. The logistics of the ship-repair industry do not allow as they would lose massive amounts of money.

While she has some items that are in need of attention and has not received maintenance others have there are reasons, and they are good reasons. She is certainly about to get that attention that she deserves. It also cannot be glossed over just how much work they have accomplished while keeping her in service. You do not just simply get onto a yard's DD docket at the drop of a hat. With the Eastbound Panamanian Voyage ending in PC and the next one being in Galveston one would logically assume that the DD will be in Freeport. Freeport services more cruise-line vessels than any other DD on the planet after US law changed the Visa Program allowing them to be serviced at US ports like MAGIC in Norfolk, Va. I cannot reasonably see them traversing to Spain each direction with an empty vessel to accomplish such work.

WONDER would presumably receive the same treat that MAGIC did 30 months ago (which was large scale with a near entire gutting of certain areas and the entire exterior being blasted down to metal). The Canal expansion in Panama completion date has been pushed back in an official capacity around three different time. The current completion date will more than likely be the completion date as they gave themselves a great cushion. Had WONDER received this treatment before this west-coast it would have nixed all voyages out there. That would have been foolish on an entirely new level. Sailing around the horn of South America is always possible but would be a much longer voyage from Miami or PC than most people would or could take. Weather down there is very temperamental, also.

Now we can tally up where the fleet stands.

MAGIC~ 30 months removed from a large scale, very in-depth Dry-Docking and renovation. A lot of upkeep performed while docked at CC when east coast, including extra attention post-European routes. Personal experience holds her in outstanding condition, especially when compared to other Cruise Lines.

WONDER~ About to receive a very involved Dry-Docking, likely on the same scale as MAGIC. She receives a large amount of exterior maintenance while in CC. Soft goods have been replaced and modernized, not in Holiday Inn fashion. Still in far better condition than competitor Cruise Lines.

DREAM~ Nearly five years old. She just came out of a Dry-Docking six months ago where a good amount of money was spent on her to plus offerings from adult areas to kids areas. Her hull was redone with its more eco-friendly and slippery coating that DCL now uses beginning with DREAM's debut.

FANTASY~ Nearly 4 years old and presumably about to receive the same attention as DREAM in the next 18-24 months. Her condition is outstanding. She has had one fluke mechanical issue that caused CC to be missed this year that could happen to any vessel. An issue that DCL very quickly rectified and turned her around on time.

All of those compounded with the ongoing maintenance of painting, which you see many wet paint sides nearly every boarding, re-carpeting all over the ship on a rolling basis, shampooing of carpets on a rolling basis, light bulbs always being changed(!), and much more. We also cannot ignore the fact that DCL splurged for MOBAS when nearly none of their competitors have done as such.

The cruise industry is a far different area of business than theme parks. While DCL certainly has their addicts that will come regardless, a larger portion (much larger than theme parks) are looking for value and take note of every little detail. If that large portion are unsatisfied with the offerings then they will not hesitate to go elsewhere. DCL cannot afford to let that happen and will not let that happen, otherwise their prices, that are adjusted on a near daily basis, will begin to fall. With ships you cannot simply just mark rooms out of inventory. This industry just does not work that way.

My fiance was on Oasis first of January, ironic since January 2015 we were on MAGIC when MAGIC plucked the MOB from Oasis out o the water, and she was completely disappointed with it. She is very detailed oriented and will take our trips elsewhere if she feels the value has dropped for what we pay. She could not understand how a six and a half year old vessel is completely eclipsed on condition by an eighteen year old vessel.

That's it. I want to go on a Disney Cruise. What time of year would be best?