The Seas with Nemo & Friends (at the Living Seas) confirmed opening fall 2006

[dxwwf3]

Short of having flashing red lights and a personal spiel to each party from the greeter the warnings couldn`t have been more clear.

:lol:

 

[wannab@dis]

You and I both know that there were many factors in the decision, and it appears attendence was about 3rd or 4th on the list.

I'd put attendence at the top spot. I know you want to believe that merchandise was the key issue, but if it was a POPULAR attraction then the merchandise would have sold. Healthy attendence and sales would have kept it going and one is based on the other. The complaints were down the list a little since you can't control idiocy.

 

[marni1971]

The complaints were down the list a little since you can't control idiocy.

Sad but true. At least I have my AE T Shirt to wear when we finally get back to the world. Just got another set back job wise so I doubt it`ll be this year either

 

[Pongo]

Edit

 

[dxwwf3]

I'd put attendence at the top spot. I know you want to believe that merchandise was the key issue, but if it was a POPULAR attraction then the merchandise would have sold. Healthy attendence and sales would have kept it going and one is based on the other. The complaints were down the list a little since you can't control idiocy.

I don't buy attendence one single bit as being most important. There are flat out too many other, older attractions that have that problem and they are still around.

In my opinion, the reasons in order would be:

1. New vision for Tomorrowland - In order to make the land more family friendly, you have to get rid of the attraction that is the least family friendly and make that the foundation for your changes.

2. Merchandising - No matter how you want to spin it, you can't avoid this. Attraction specific merchandise does not sell to the general public like it does to fans. Look in the Test Track gift shop now and try to find a lot of TT specific things. And then look outside at the lines. It doesn't mesh. And take a look at Mission Space's gift shop as well. It's the same thing.

Disney had their new cash cow character and he wasn't being used in the parks effectively, so they killed two birds with one stone and got rid of the non family friendly attraction and cheaply put in a character they had to find a place for. Stitch merchandise should sell better than any attraction specific merchandise, and I'm sure it does.

3. Complaints from parents - Too many people view the MK as being a kids park and not a family park, which it is. So they expect every attraction to be geared for kids. God forbid, Disney tires to push the envelope and do something different.

4. Attendence - It wasn't what it used to be. No denying that. But it was a show, and shows do not hold up attendence wise over the long haul. Look at the 3D movies. They are all practicly walk ons after a couple years. Part of that is capacity though, and AE had great capacity for a continuious theater presentation.


And no there is no controlling of stupidity at the Disney parks :lol:

 

[dxwwf3]

Sad but true. At least I have my AE T Shirt to wear when we finally get back to the world. Just got another set back job wise so I doubt it`ll be this year either

I've been lucky to get two off eBay. You might want to look there for more. One of them is a CM Preview Shirt for October 1994 that I won't wear and I got the Skippy/Skippy Fried shirt there too.

I won't walk into the MK again without one of those shirts on :lol:

 

[JimboJones123]

I am totally more excited about Nemo that EE -- this should be AWESOME... Finally an attraction that really PUTS YOU IN THE CARTOON--- SWEET!

 

[dox]

Returning to the point of this thread....

Does anyone have any idea or heard any details regarding this "new" attraction? Based on the description it appears that the ride has been extended and a portion of it will not be in the aquarium. I also assume this has to be the case given that the sea cab track was extremely short, not even close to the length of the fantasyland dark rides. Any info or rumors would be appreciated? LEE??? We need help.

 

[marni1971]

Good point. We do know now (it seems) the `Cabs will infact be clams - more in appearence to the planned but mothballed Voyage of the Little Mermaid dark ride for DLP and later Toontown.

The Sea Cab route was rather underused; around 30% was just the empty return path form unload to load (I`d guess empty - Omni maintainence wasn`t here; it was just after load)

If the load area could be moved further to this area (if the building structure is clear) then the entire return leg could be reused. Add in one of the 2 theatres already rumoured to be gone, the first preshow area (maybe), and Hydrolator area this would be more than enough for a few curves, showscenes and switchbacks. The way the rumours are talking one you walk in past the mural you won`t recognise the layout.

 

[Jheyman]

I don't buy attendence one single bit as being most important. There are flat out too many other, older attractions that have that problem and they are still around.

In my opinion, the reasons in order would be:

1. New vision for Tomorrowland - In order to make the land more family friendly, you have to get rid of the attraction that is the least family friendly and make that the foundation for your changes.

2. Merchandising - No matter how you want to spin it, you can't avoid this. Attraction specific merchandise does not sell to the general public like it does to fans. Look in the Test Track gift shop now and try to find a lot of TT specific things. And then look outside at the lines. It doesn't mesh. And take a look at Mission Space's gift shop as well. It's the same thing.

Disney had their new cash cow character and he wasn't being used in the parks effectively, so they killed two birds with one stone and got rid of the non family friendly attraction and cheaply put in a character they had to find a place for. Stitch merchandise should sell better than any attraction specific merchandise, and I'm sure it does.

3. Complaints from parents - Too many people view the MK as being a kids park and not a family park, which it is. So they expect every attraction to be geared for kids. God forbid, Disney tires to push the envelope and do something different.

4. Attendence - It wasn't what it used to be. No denying that. But it was a show, and shows do not hold up attendence wise over the long haul. Look at the 3D movies. They are all practicly walk ons after a couple years. Part of that is capacity though, and AE had great capacity for a continuious theater presentation.


And no there is no controlling of stupidity at the Disney parks :lol:

I have to agree espically on that last point. I can't help but think if people read and PROCESSED the info they are given perhaps our beloved AE would still be here today.

Also just another thought, for all these AE vs SGE talks I dont think anyone can disagree that it was one of the most creative and original attractions in the recent past.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Also just another thought, for all these AE vs SGE talks I dont think anyone can disagree that it was one of the most creative and original attractions in the recent past.

I think that is an absolute truth, at least from most I have talked to. Whether it was "appropriate," "great," "too scary," etc. is up to the individual, but it was creative, original, well-executed, and melded very well into the theme of Tomorrowland.

It's an odd situation now with the new announcements (sans the show which, while it sounds odd, I think can be done fairly easily and, if not successful, can be swapped quickly) is more of a harkening of change.

I will fully admit the announcement of Nemo's storyline and this potentially strong rumor of Monsters Inc. at MK are not good in my eyes. The stories both are allegedly following destroy the theme of where they are. However, for once, THAT is the only problem. They both sound like extremely well thought out attractions that have great new effects, a broad-based audience, etc. The foundations of good attractions that have perhaps been lacking in the last decade. Nemo sounds like it is going to be great fun, will bring a place for children, etc. However, the basic attraction says nothing about discussing the Seas. It is about Finding Nemo (literally). The sets, concept, music, etc. all seem great. It is reviving an omnimover. Great. It is simply missing the mark of education that Epcot was founded upon.
The MI replacement suffers a different but equal issue. It sounds like an OUTSTANDING attraction. Really fun. However, it has an even more blaring slap toward the face of its residence. Could WDI stretch the theme to make it fit? Sure. However, they shouldn't have to. It's not a gateway like Splash is (which I know gets its own share of criticism on theme). It is not being changed to use the characters as a vehicle to the future (that is/will be/never was/anything).

What does this mean? It means Disney World has switched its focus. It has gone to the kids. Is this bad? no. Is this perhaps a necessary move? yes (or is at least profitable since Disney WOrld is a kids' destination in the public's eye). Where I see the problem is in the future. I am really torn on these because this is a HUGE step away from what was before. These sound nothing like IMAG or Tiki or SGE. These are huge budget changes. IMPROVEMENTS! It is, to an extent, more like M2M to AE or (somewhat) Food Rocks to Soarin'. Individually, it's progress, and that is awesome. However, the individual stories aren't meshing with the overall. The wide shots are a bit photoshopped now, but, as many have said, guests forgive that.

Where the issue I see is stands with the story itself. Disney World to me was that place where everyone could enjoy themselves together. That didn;t mean having rides everyone could ride. That meant creating stories that spoke to each person. I would argue that every person from 5 to 95 can relate to pretending to be a pirate. To soarin' over the moutains and flying. To pretending about that spooky haunted house. To being an astronaut. To seeing dinosaurs. The original attractions are done so that people can latch onto something in their ids. That joy of being a child, even at 25,45, 55, 95. Unfortuantely, it just seems that most of the movie tie-ins do not appeal to this sense. It requires a timely knowledge of the characters at hand. And understanding of what culture they are from. Is there a place for this, yes, but it is a sad time when it comes as the expense of the others.

Now before I get royally flamed for this, I am not attacking Disney or WDI. It is a reflection of people. They want the characters. They want the plushes. People would rather see a familiar cartoon then something that harkens back to their childhood dream of flying a flying saucer or exploring a dragon's tower. As much as people complain it is all Mickey, that's what works with modern guests. It is the argument of content vs. art, and DIsney makes the former. I guess this is merely meant as a eulogy to what Disney was and what it seems modern culture doesn't want it to be any more. Things like EE and Soarin' prove that these original attractions that appeal to child ideals and dreams still work. I just wish there was more a demand for this than the other. The point was that imagination worked at these parks without much trying. It fostered going beyond, not figuring out to make it make sense. I am confident these individual attractions are going to be fantastic (and necessities for a Disney vacation). It's the big picture I'm worried about not by poor management decisions but by ones that are correct.

 

[MuRkErY]

What does this mean? It means Disney World has switched its focus. It has gone to the kids.

Yet they just invested in EE, Soarin, and LMAX, hardly kids attraction. WDW has not switched focus, it is still firmly based on the family.

However, the basic attraction says nothing about discussing the Seas. It is about Finding Nemo (literally). The sets, concept, music, etc. all seem great. It is reviving an omnimover. Great. It is simply missing the mark of education that Epcot was founded upon.

The seas with Nemo, is transportation TOO the edutainmainment, Literally.
The new Nemo ride will take you too Seabase Alpha (Or Whatever it's future incarnation will be called), and there the edutainment will begin.

Now before I get royally flamed for this, I am not attacking Disney or WDI. It is a reflection of people. They want the characters. They want the plushes. People would rather see a familiar cartoon

Yet this was different than when Walt was around ?

All though I dont think the statement is necessarily true anyway. People then, and now are still enthralled in equal amounts by original/unique attractions as much as the character based ones. I think people should stop looking in 100%'s, absolutes, and Black and White's, and more in shades of grey. Just because a few character based attractions are making there way into the parks does not mean a complete invasion. There is room for BOTH types of attractions in the parks, there all ways has been, and there all ways will be.

 

[speck76]

The seas with Nemo, is transportation TOO the edutainmainment, Literally.
The new Nemo ride will take you too Seabase Alpha (Or Whatever it's future incarnation will be called), and there the edutainment will begin.

I know what you are trying to say, and a I agree.......I think part of the problem is some people like to be force-fed the "education" at Epcot.....while traveling down the omni-mover path at TLS, they want some speaker to be saying "look to you left and right....you will see water. Water is H2O, and since this is ocean water, it is full of salt, which is NACl. Salt water covers 2/3rds of the planets surface blah blah blah" The simple fact that they might see Nemo occasionally makes them think this is no longer a "prehistoric Epcot education-first attraction" but it is now a Nemo attraction.

It seems to me that it is both.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

I know what you are trying to say, and a I agree.......I think part of the problem is some people like to be force-fed the "education" at Epcot.....while traveling down the omni-mover path at TLS, they want some speaker to be saying "look to you left and right....you will see water. Water is H2O, and since this is ocean water, it is full of salt, which is NACl. Salt water covers 2/3rds of the planets surface blah blah blah" The simple fact that they might see Nemo occasionally makes them think this is no longer a "prehistoric Epcot education-first attraction" but it is now a Nemo attraction.

It seems to me that it is both.

Please don't misunderstand me. I agree that much of the original EPCOT Center was far too much force feeding. However, some of it worked and worked well. The whimsical, fun approach is great. However, the education was and is (for those still around) always there. And, there is still time and a chance. With the guise of Mr. Ray's classroom, you have a perfect opportunity to learn about the creatures of Finding Nemo. "Nemo is a clown fish. They love anemones. Look for the anemones. THey look like this." Something along those lines would be perfect. Just having the story of nemo missing, though, doesn't have that. Again, this all depends on its execution, but if it literally is a dark ride that could be found in MK/Studios as easiliy as Epcot, I just feel it is changing the mark. The transportation could EASILY be educational and fun simulteaneously. THAT"S where the missing part would be to me on this attraction.
I am really happy that quality is coming back to these projects, I was very concerned overall in the not too distant past. Now it is literally a matter of placement, and a personal hope for original attractions. If this becomes a huge trend of replacement, then sure it might be a problem. BUt, nothing suggests this is the case. It's sad to lose a part of what made Disney magical to me as a kid and to many others I know. But, at least it is a strong decision and one that has a foundation and, most importantly, done to what appears to be a truly Disney-quality level.

 

[MuRkErY]

The thing is though, this new Nemo ride will not be taking anything away from the Living Seas, apart from the hydrolators (Which were not edutainment anyway).

Just think of the new Nemo ride as a more extravagant version of the hydrolators. The Living Seas will still be there, just with a new fun way to get you there.

 

[disneytati]

That's so cool!!!! It's nice that they are trying to bring new attractions to The Living Seas pavillion, maybe there's some hope for it... I like it a lot...

 

[CaptainMichael]

Please don't misunderstand me. I agree that much of the original EPCOT Center was far too much force feeding. However, some of it worked and worked well. The whimsical, fun approach is great. However, the education was and is (for those still around) always there. And, there is still time and a chance. With the guise of Mr. Ray's classroom, you have a perfect opportunity to learn about the creatures of Finding Nemo. "Nemo is a clown fish. They love anemones. Look for the anemones. THey look like this." Something along those lines would be perfect. Just having the story of nemo missing, though, doesn't have that. Again, this all depends on its execution, but if it literally is a dark ride that could be found in MK/Studios as easiliy as Epcot, I just feel it is changing the mark. The transportation could EASILY be educational and fun simulteaneously. THAT"S where the missing part would be to me on this attraction.

I think you are misunderstanding what this attraction will be. It is the old SHORT Sea Cab ride, but it is being extended and new effects are being added. This is far from even being close to bad. This is the rebirth of Epcot, a park that would have died if Disney had not changed its focus. This is good change and should be celebrated!

 

[dxwwf3]

This is good change and should be celebrated!

It hasn't opened yet :lol:

If you can't talk bad about an attraction before it opens, then I think celebrating a good change before we even know if it's good or not is doing the same thing.

I expect this to be a great change, but it's best not to get your hopes up too much.

 

[CaptainMichael]

It hasn't opened yet :lol:

Anything has to better than a vacant pavillion!

 

[dxwwf3]

Anything has to better than a vacant pavilion!

Good point :lol:

I just think you should wait a while before popping the champagne just yet. I'm excited about the possibilities too, but we still don't know how it will turn out.