The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[mickEblu]

Because there hasn’t been a male performing as a Disney Princess

How do you know?

 

[wdrive]

How do you know?

Firstly there’s been outrage all over the internet over a shop employee wearing a dress. A male Princess would make a splash 100 times bigger.

As I said earlier feel free to drop into my messages if you want to know more

 

[mickEblu]

Firstly there’s been outrage all over the internet over a shop employee wearing a dress. A male Princess would make a splash 100 times bigger.

As I said earlier feel free to drop into my messages if you want to know more

That’s logical. I need to find that video…

More as in you have some inside knowledge? If so, I’ll be right over.

 

[wdrive]

That’s logical. I need to find that video…

More as in you have some inside knowledge? If so, I’ll be right over.

Please do, I’m very interested in seeing it.

 

[Parteecia]

So what are the rules here? Women can wear men's clothes while still wearing makeup but someone with a mustache cannot wear a dress and makeup? How is the mustache in women's clothes different from makeup in men's clothes?

And I have seen some beautiful beautiful women who were not women.

 

[TP2000]

Two years ago, this would never have been allowed at Disneyland. This still wouldn't be allowed at most places in America. Disney has changed their policies in regards to CM conduct and appearance significantly in a very short time.

My problem with this is that it imposes Nick's own world on the customers, and that seems unprofessional. This isn't the average gift shop or snack bar, it's a very specific and targeted story-led experience that takes 30 minutes or more.

The parents are being asked to pay hundreds of dollars to buy into the story that this is where a Fairy Godmother will help turn your little girl into a real Princess. There was no ability for the parents showing up for their 2pm reservation to select Nick, rather Nick is posted by management at the door to just take the next random family with a reservation. That family could be a gay couple from Palm Springs who thinks it's kind of funny, or it could be a Christian family from Alabama who is very uncomfortable with it and wants to back out.

This is an expensive experience where a little girl is supposed to be the star and is supposed to have the fantasy of becoming a Disney Princess with the help of a Fairy Godmother, but Nick seems to be using this work location as a way to live out his own fantasies of being a Fairy Godmother who does makeovers on little girls.

The emphasis and focus of the experience seems to have been turned on its head. This wasn't designed to be Nick's fun experience, it's supposed to be the customer's fun experience. And an expensive one at that. It seems unprofessional and not respectful of the wide variety of people who visit Disneyland and pay huge sums of money for stuff like this.

 

[TP2000]

So what are the rules here? Women can wear men's clothes while still wearing makeup but someone with a mustache cannot wear a dress and makeup? How is the mustache in women's clothes different from makeup in men's clothes?

I think traditionally and historically, it's been far more acceptable across nearly all human cultures for women to take on male characteristics/dress much easier than when men take on female characteristics/dress. Thus you get stuff like "tomboys" or Cowgirls that are more socially acceptable, even celebrated. Compared to effeminate men or female impersonators that were openly mocked.

I'd love to know what the official rules are for Disneyland CM's now. Using Nick as an example, it now appears to be a free-for-all. You can be an adult man with a mustache and a traditional man's name like "Nick" and wear a flouncy dress at the Bibbidi-Bobbidi salon.

So could a girl who just wants to make her work life easier at her Haunted Mansion shift show up wearing the tuxedo instead of the chambermaid dress and little lace hat?

What about the Baby Care Center? Those CM's have always been women, grandmotherly and kind and sweet. Could a 20 year old college guy with a beard work a shift at the Baby Care Center helping nursing mother's now? I don't see why not if Nick can be a Fairy Godmother in a flouncy dress.

And are the nursing mother's who might not be comfortable nursing in front of a 20 year old man allowed to say anything about it?

Lots of avenues on this one to consider...

And I have seen some beautiful beautiful women who were not women.

I have too. But there's usually a two-drink minimum.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Disagreement does not equal hate. We're becoming too divided as a people. This includes yelling at each other and mocking from any side of the discussion. The media loves to play this up because they have to get their clicks and views. Really sad.

 

[wdrive]

So could a girl who just wants to make her work life easier at her Haunted Mansion shift show up wearing the tuxedo instead of the chambermaid dress and little lace hat?

Yes

 

[Parteecia]

My problem with this is that it imposes Nick's own world on the customers, and that seems unprofessional. This isn't the average gift shop or snack bar, it's a very specific and targeted story-led experience that takes 30 minutes or more.

The parents are being asked to pay hundreds of dollars to buy into the story that this is where a Fairy Godmother will help turn your little girl into a real Princess. There was no ability for the parents showing up for their 2pm reservation to select Nick, rather Nick is posted by management at the door to just take the next random family with a reservation. That family could be a gay couple from Palm Springs who thinks it's kind of funny, or it could be a Christian family from Alabama who is very uncomfortable with it and wants to back out.

This is an expensive experience where a little girl is supposed to be the star and is supposed to have the fantasy of becoming a Disney Princess with the help of a Fairy Godmother, but Nick seems to be using this work location as a way to live out his own fantasies of being a Fairy Godmother who does makeovers on little girls.

The emphasis and focus of the experience seems to have been turned on its head. This wasn't designed to be Nick's fun experience, it's supposed to be the customer's fun experience. And an expensive one at that. It seems unprofessional and not respectful of the wide variety of people who visit Disneyland and pay huge sums of money for stuff like this.

So gradually and then all at once Disney has left the 1950s. It's gone from deliberately and conservatively lagging behind cultural changes to keeping up or even ahead.

I'll bet the Alabamans - or anyone else who feels strongly - can ask for a different CM. As in the 1950s, when someone might have asked for a different CM because their ancestry made them uncomfortable (although I do not remember much diversity in those days).

Meantime park reservations keep selling out. I agree it will be interesting to track if getting ahead of the curve costs them.

 

[mlayton144]

I’ll put this simply so nobody can accuse me of anything I didn’t say.

I only believe in two genders, male and female, and nobody can change the gender they were born as. I believe in gender roles, that men should be the providers and protectors of the household while women should be the nurturers and homemakers. I also believe marriage is between one man and one woman for life, and anything outside of that is not marriage.

I do not want my children anywhere near any person who will teach them anything different regarding gender, marriage, and sexuality. Not only do I believe anything differently is dishonoring to God, but I believe it is harmful to children. When I see those who reject the gender binary and engage in licentious and hedonistic behavior, I see nothing but misery, hatred, and anger, not love and joy. But when I look at those who uphold to the three truths I’ve outlined, I see fulfillment, and that is what I want for my children. For these reasons, I would not want my children going to Disneyland in its current state.

I trust that all who read this will see I am not being hateful in my words, because my words are not driven by hate. My words are a statement of beliefs, beliefs that many here and the billions of men and women who have walked this earth have held to for many millennia.
Of course, I’m happy to discuss this all further, but I suspect this branch of the thread won’t last much longer.

I find it refreshing that you can honestly state your beliefs. However our society was never meant to live under the laws of a church , it was designed to live under the laws of our constitution. Rather than living to the Bible or any other scripture , I think we are best off letting people live under the laws of our country. If you aren’t hurting folks , dress however the heck you want - if this violates social norms society will let them know and the individual is free to accept the consequences. Personally I don’t see anyone being converted to trans or gay or whatever by society - this is how you are wired.

 

[Parteecia]

What about the Baby Care Center? Those CM's have always been women, grandmotherly and kind and sweet. Could a 20 year old college guy with a beard work a shift at the Baby Care Center helping nursing mother's now? I don't see why not if Nick can be a Fairy Godmother in a flouncy dress.

Lol. I spent a college summer working with Upward Bound in an on-campus program. One of the male teachers had a baby and as the sole woman they assumed I would take care of it while he was working. I have no maternal instinct and have never babysat while all of the men were fathers.

 

[BubbaisSleep]

I literally remember if I questioned anything as a child my parents would just explain it and I’d move on cause kids don’t care. But kids do mirror the emotions and repeat things their parents do. If a child is confused or upset, it’s more than likely it’s due to their parents instilling those things in their heads. Which is just cruel to have a child uphold that kind of hatred, kids should be kids

 

[lazyboy97o]

Lol. I spent a college summer working with Upward Bound in an on-campus program. One of the male teachers had a baby and as the sole woman they assumed I would take care of it while he was working. I have no maternal instinct and have never babysat while all of the men were fathers.

The hypothetical is telling about presumptions about who belongs where. Men are not prohibited from entering the Baby Care Centers.

 

[TP2000]

The hypothetical is telling about presumptions about who belongs where. Men are not prohibited from entering the Baby Care Centers.

Yes, fathers can go in to the Baby Care Centers. But that's not what I was talking about.

I was talking about the CM's who work at the Baby Care Centers. They have always been women, and almost exclusively grandmotherly types at that.

It is because in many parks, Disneyland for one, the nursing area is a separate space with comfortable chairs but without individual rooms. So the CM's working the nursing mother's lounge, who are all women CM's, move about the space freely providing blankets and amenities and such to the nursing moms.

Disneyland Baby Care Center - Nursing Mother's Lounge

Could a 20 year old college guy work at the Baby Care Center passing out blankies and adjusting chairs for the nursing moms in the open common area dedicated to nursing? And if a 20 year old guy can work that shift, are the nursing mothers allowed to ask that he not be in there? Or do they just have to put up with it because of "Inclusion"?

 

[Parteecia]

I think traditionally and historically, it's been far more acceptable across nearly all human cultures for women to take on male characteristics/dress much easier than when men take on female characteristics/dress. Thus you get stuff like "tomboys" or Cowgirls that are more socially acceptable, even celebrated. Compared to effeminate men or female impersonators that were openly mocked

 

[The Mom]

I think a few posters are stuck in a circular argument, and somehow feel that if they just say the same thing a different way, or just come up with another what about someone will change their mind.

I rarely, if ever, see it happen yet. Although I did once change my mind after an internet exchange.

But now things are too far into the social issues and politics so it's time to step back.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I think a few posters are stuck in a circular argument, and somehow feel that if they just say the same thing a different way, or just come up with another what about someone will change their mind.

I rarely, if ever, see it happen yet. Although I did once change my mind after an internet exchange.

I’ve changed my mind about veganism. Turns out it can be done (for the most part).

 

[mickEblu]

 

[TP2000]

Congratulations to the Class of 2023 Happy Grad Nite

If you had attended a Disneyland Grad Nite in 1966, you could win one of the '66 Pontiac GTO's that they gave away each night at 3:45am. That's a nifty prize.