The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

TROR

TROR

Well-Known Member
Rich T said:
Let me rephrase that: weren't followed in a way I (or many, including apparently Abrams and much of the cast) wanted to see them followed:
Snoke. Rey's Training. Rey and Finn. Luke's Real Reason for traveling to the first Jedi temple. I'd also say "Rey's parents," but apparently that's been handled in Ep. 9, so now (SPOILERS) I guess Palpatine wins in the end because his blood line not only survives, but takes over the Skywalker name.
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We get Snoke followed up wonderfully. Sure, his origin isn't explained, but that's because it's not really important. All you need to know is that he seduced Ben and that's said in The Force Awakens. We even get more of that when he says he sees potential in Ben. I suppose a simple line about him watching the Empire fall and seeing an opportunity for power would've been nice, but it doesn't really matter.

Rey is trained.

Rey and Finn were never romantic? They've always been a platonic friendship.

Even in The Force Awakens, Luke travels to the Jedi Temple because of what happened at his academy and Ben's turn. That's developed a lot more in TLJ in a very satisfying way that's true to Luke.
 
Rich T

Rich T

Well-Known Member
TROR said:
We get Snoke followed up wonderfully. Sure, his origin isn't explained, but that's because it's not really important. All you need to know is that he seduced Ben and that's said in The Force Awakens. We even get more of that when he says he sees potential in Ben. I suppose a simple line about him watching the Empire fall and seeing an opportunity for power would've been nice, but it doesn't really matter.

Rey is trained.

Rey and Finn were never romantic? They've always been a platonic friendship.

Even in The Force Awakens, Luke travels to the Jedi Temple because of what happened at his academy and Ben's turn. That's developed a lot more in TLJ in a very satisfying way that's true to Luke.
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UN. SATISYING. Fer me. And re: Rey and Finn--Romantic or platonic, I just wanted more of the Rey and Finn show. Their chemistry and banter was the best part of TFA.
 
Rich T

Rich T

Well-Known Member
Double Toasted reviewed Cats and The Rise of Skywalker in one show. It's glorious.
doubletoasted.jpg
 
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Rich T

Rich T

Well-Known Member
TROR said:
What about Luke's ending was not satisfying? He realized his isolation was wrong, faced the First Order, and sparked hope throughout the galaxy.
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SO MUCH MORE could have been done with the Luke character plot-wise. So much more fun could have been had. There could have been a glorious reunion scene with Luke, Leia and Han (and, yes, I'm blaming Abrams equally for that missed opportunity). Coulda woulda shoulda. I did not enjoy the stew I was served.

I really was hoping that Snoke would continue to appear as a gigantic hologram, and then--in Ep. 9's finale-- He'd be revealed to all as a three-inch tall alien.
 
TROR

TROR

Well-Known Member
Rich T said:
SO MUCH MORE could have been done with the Luke character plot-wise. So much more fun could have been had. There could have been a glorious reunion scene with Luke, Leia and Han (and, yes, I'm blaming Abrams equally for that missed opportunity). Coulda woulda shoulda. I did not enjoy the stew I was served.
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I'll agree, but that's obviously not TLJ's fault. It gave us a Luke and Leia reunion and that's the most we could have asked for there. I'm glad they didn't go with the fun, theme park ride route for Luke because that's miserable and hollow. Just look at TROS if you want a "fun" movie with no substance. It's headache inducing!

I really was hoping that Snoke would continue to appear as a gigantic hologram, and then--in Ep. 9's finale-- He'd be revealed to all as a three-inch tall alien.
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You can want that, but I hope you know that's dumb...
 
Rich T

Rich T

Well-Known Member
TROR said:
Just look at TROS if you want a "fun" movie with no substance. It's headache inducing
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No thank you. When I heard they'd pulled Palpatine out of their...files...to try to save the trilogy, I asked the waiter for my check and left the Disney Trilogy cafe for good. Thank goodness for the Mandalorian food cart.
TROR said:
You can want that, but I hope you know that's dumb...
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No, it brilliant! It's super-genius! :D "Dumb" is Palpatine and his magical army of Death Ray Ships.
 
TROR

TROR

Well-Known Member
Rich T said:
No thank you. When I heard they'd pulled Palpatine out of their...files...to try to save the trilogy, I asked the waiter for my check and left the Disney Trilogy cafe for good. Thank goodness for the Mandalorian food cart.

No, it brilliant! It's super-genius! :D "Dumb" is Palpatine and his magical army of Death Ray Ships.
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The Rise of Skywalker is dumb. I like it, but it’s dumb. At least we can be unified in knowing it’s stupid and undermines what I like about the trilogy.
 
mickEblu

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I absolutely loved The Rise of Skywalker!

I would describe myself as a causal + Star Wars fan. I don’t have a lot of nostalgia for the original trilogy. With the exception of ROTJ, they were all released before I was born. I grew up during the Star Wars dark ages between the original and prequel trilogies. I didn’t see A New Hope (Star Wars back then) until I was 12. Something peaked my interest (probably Star Tours) and I bought it on VHS. I enjoyed it enough to make it part of my rotation of movies for a few months. Rented Episode 5 and 6. As a kid who enjoyed fantasy films, ROTJ was my favorite back then because of the Ewoks and all the creatures at Jabbas. Now it’s definitely my least favorite of the OT by far. Anyway, I enjoyed Star Wars enough to buy Shadows of the Empire, Rogue Squadron and the Pod racing game on Nintendo 64. Enjoyed it enough to go see all the prequels in theaters once and randomly watch bits and pieces of all the movies when they were on TV. Oh ya, almost forgot about the Ewok movies on the Disney channel. That was basically it until the Sequel Trilogy came out. No toys, no comic books, no rebels or whatever those cartoon shows are called.

God Father came out before I was born too Which is one of my favorite movies but I Wouldn’t say I have any nostalgia for it. All this to say that I believe I’m as unbiased as a Star Wars fan could possibly be while still having pretty good knowledge of what it’s all about. I’ll admit I’m probably not as “snobby” or critical of a film fan as I am when it comes to the parks. I view Star Wars movies as what they were meant to be. Fun Sci Fi blockbuster adventure films. I just want to be entertained and feel something. The Sequel trilogy does these things better than the OT. Now what the they did with the OT in the late 70s early 80s is super impressive and of course, Lucas/ the OT gets all the credit for creating these fascinating worlds, characters, the John Williams Music etc but Disney took all of that and ran with it with Sequel Trilogy.

The ST is obviously more visually impressive with beautiful cinematography but I think they are also better executed as well. The story characters have more depth and don’t feel so 2D. Also, let’s be honest, Luke was a terrible actor during most of the OT. Outside of Luke blowing up the Death Star and Han coming to help in the OT I can’t think of many or any other moments where I felt anything in the OT. In TROS alone there were 4-5 moments where I almost / did tear up. Small SPOILER COMING......................................

......The Kylo-Han exchange standing out.

Overall the ST Is much more exciting from start to finish. Even if A New Hope is still the best standalone Star Wars movie... maybe. I’m not even convinced that’s true anymore. As a casual + Star Wars fan I’m not concerned about Reys supernatural force abilities not being consistent with the Force in older movies or things if that nature. As IMO, an unbiased Star Wars fan that just watched all 9 Skywalker Saga movies + Rogue One in the last few weeks I can confidently say I enjoy the ST much more. Now, does that mean they re more important culturally than the OT, of course not. But when it comes purely entertainment purposes, which is what movies are primarily made for. The ST wins.

Lastly, I think if one is able to put aside the behind the scenes rumors or speculated course correction of Abrams after TLJ, they ll be able to enjoy the trilogy more. Meaning to say, the guessing game of wondering if things like “was Rey always meant to be Palpatines daughter or did JJ try to fix that after TLJ” but instead just taking everything for face value. I don’t understand the reviews saying that the trilogy didn’t have any direction or purpose. I mean you can call TROS a bit of fan service but who didn’t see that coming? And how is it anymore fan service than ANH or ROTJ? Also who doesn’t expect fan service with these kind of movies in general? Side note: ROTJ was one of my least favorite movies of the Marathon I just did. Maybe I was having Star Wars fatigue that day but man that one was a bore to get thru. A 45 minute long “scene” at Jabbas. The Overdoing it with the Ewoks. It was very much a product of its time and felt more like a fantasy film from the 80s and less Star Wars. Anyway, if Abrams was just fixing up “mistakes” that RIan Johnson made, I couldn’t tell. I think he wrapped up everything beautifully. To the point where I never asked questions like “was Palpatine always going to be a part of this trilogy?” Everything made sense and All the character arcs wrapped up in a way that felt natural and like it was always intended to be that way. I went in with not very many expectations and somehow got everything I probably wanted out of this film. Of course, it also has the advantage of being the movie that gets to wrap up the entire saga and with that comes closure and drama which is entertaining and satisfying.

The only 2 negatives I can think of off the top of my head. I wish their was a little bit more breathing room between some of the action scenes. Also ...... SPOILER......


I wish they would have executed the Rey/ Palpatine scene at the end a little better. I never really felt there was a chance of her being seduced to the dark side. I wish they had made me think, even for 5 seconds, that they she may turn. Not sure if Abrams even tried to do that or not. If he did, it didn’t work for me.

Really lastly this time. Kylo Ren > Vader. So much more to him and more depth and character development. Such a great character arc. This is coming From someone who laughed out loud at the move theatre when he first took his mask off in Force Awakens and also left the theatre feeling like he was a weak villain.


So how about how this effects ROTR? Interesting choice. Why not.... SPOILER......

Palpatine as the bad guy or an original villain created for the ride? Maybe they didn’t know what direction Kylo was going when they started building the ride? For a place (Batuu) that’s supposed to be So real, it seems off that we have to put aside our Ep 9 knowledge when riding. Maybe that changes when EP 9 fades out of relevancy.
 
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Rich T

Rich T

Well-Known Member
CATS GETS PATCHED!?! Well, this is a first: Universal has just issued a “patched” version of Cats to theaters, which “improves” the CGI and reportedly fixes unfinished effects. Is this the new normal for the industry???

Unfortunately, the patch didn’t add a plot or replace the CGI with the fun and imaginative stage costumes...
A2D7CCB3-B455-47F6-B46A-EA707F6C516D.jpeg
 
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Rich T

Rich T

Well-Known Member
mickEblu said:
I absolutely loved The Rise of Skywalker!

I would describe myself as a causal + Star Wars fan. I don’t have a lot of nostalgia for the original trilogy. With the exception of ROTJ, they were all released before I was born. I grew up during the Star Wars dark ages between the original and prequel trilogies. I didn’t see A New Hope (Star Wars back then) until I was 12. Something peaked my interest (probably Star Tours) and I bought it on VHS. I enjoyed it enough to make it part of my rotation of movies for a few months. Rented Episode 5 and 6. As a kid who enjoyed fantasy films, ROTJ was my favorite back then because of the Ewoks and all the creatures at Jabbas. Now it’s definitely my least favorite of the OT by far. Anyway, I enjoyed Star Wars enough to buy Shadows of the Empire, Rogue Squadron and the Pod racing game on Nintendo 64. Enjoyed it enough to go see all the prequels in theaters once and randomly watch bits and pieces of all the movies when they were on TV. Oh ya, almost forgot about the Ewok movies on the Disney channel. That was basically it until the Sequel Trilogy came out. No toys, no comic books, no rebels or whatever those cartoon shows are called.

God Father came out before I was born too Which is one of my favorite movies but I Wouldn’t say I have any nostalgia for it. All this to say that I believe I’m as unbiased as a Star Wars fan could possibly be while still having pretty good knowledge of what it’s all about. I’ll admit I’m probably not as “snobby” or critical of a film fan as I am when it comes to the parks. I view Star Wars movies as what they were meant to be. Fun Sci Fi blockbuster adventure films. I just want to be entertained and feel something. The Sequel trilogy does these things better than the OT. Now what the they did with the OT in the late 70s early 80s is super impressive and of course, Lucas/ the OT gets all the credit for creating these fascinating worlds, characters, the John Williams Music etc but Disney took all of that and ran with it with Sequel Trilogy.

The ST is obviously more visually impressive with beautiful cinematography but I think they are also better executed as well. The story characters have more depth and don’t feel so 2D. Also, let’s be honest, Luke was a terrible actor during most of the OT. Outside of Luke blowing up the Death Star and Han coming to help in the OT I can’t think of many or any other moments where I felt anything in the OT. In TROS alone there were 4-5 moments where I almost / did tear up. Small SPOILER COMING......................................

......The Kylo-Han exchange standing out.

Overall the ST Is much more exciting from start to finish. Even if A New Hope is still the best standalone Star Wars movie... maybe. I’m not even convinced that’s true anymore. As a casual + Star Wars fan I’m not concerned about Reys supernatural force abilities not being consistent with the Force in older movies or things if that nature. As IMO, an unbiased Star Wars fan that just watched all 9 Skywalker Saga movies + Rogue One in the last few weeks I can confidently say I enjoy the ST much more. Now, does that mean they re more important culturally than the OT, of course not. But when it comes purely entertainment purposes, which is what movies are primarily made for. The ST wins.

Lastly, I think if one is able to put aside the behind the scenes rumors or speculated course correction of Abrams after TLJ, they ll be able to enjoy the trilogy more. Meaning to say, the guessing game of wondering if things like “was Rey always meant to be Palpatines daughter or did JJ try to fix that after TLJ” but instead just taking everything for face value. I don’t understand the reviews saying that the trilogy didn’t have any direction or purpose. I mean you can call TROS a bit of fan service but who didn’t see that coming? And how is it anymore fan service than ANH or ROTJ? Also who doesn’t expect fan service with these kind of movies in general? Side note: ROTJ was one of my least favorite movies of the Marathon I just did. Maybe I was having Star Wars fatigue that day but man that one was a bore to get thru. A 45 minute long “scene” at Jabbas. The Overdoing it with the Ewoks. It was very much a product of its time and felt more like a fantasy film from the 80s and less Star Wars. Anyway, if Abrams was just fixing up “mistakes” that RIan Johnson made, I couldn’t tell. I think he wrapped up everything beautifully. To the point where I never asked questions like “was Palpatine always going to be a part of this trilogy?” Everything made sense and All the character arcs wrapped up in a way that felt natural and like it was always intended to be that way. I went in with not very many expectations and somehow got everything I probably wanted out of this film. Of course, it also has the advantage of being the movie that gets to wrap up the entire saga and with that comes closure and drama which is entertaining and satisfying.

The only 2 negatives I can think of off the top of my head. I wish their was a little bit more breathing room between some of the action scenes. Also ...... SPOILER......


I wish they would have executed the Rey/ Palpatine scene at the end a little better. I never really felt there was a chance of her being seduced to the dark side. I wish they had made me think, even for 5 seconds, that they she may turn. Not sure if Abrams even tried to do that or not. If he did, it didn’t work for me.

Really lastly this time. Kylo Ren > Vader. So much more to him and more depth and character development. Such a great character arc. This is coming From someone who laughed out loud at the move theatre when he first took his mask off in Force Awakens and also left the theatre feeling like he was a weak villain.


So how about how this effects ROTR? Interesting choice. Why not.... SPOILER......

Palpatine as the bad guy or an original villain created for the ride? Maybe they didn’t know what direction Kylo was going when they started building the ride? For a place (Batuu) that’s supposed to be So real, it seems off that we have to put aside our Ep 9 knowledge when riding. Maybe that changes when EP 9 fades out of relevancy.
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What an excellent write-up, and a refreshing, honest perspective! The new trilogy isn’t for me, but I can totally respect where you’re coming from.

And there’s no denying the Disney SW films have the best acting.
 
Travel Junkie

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
mickEblu said:
I would describe myself as a causal + Star Wars fan. I don’t have a lot of nostalgia for the original trilogy. With the exception of ROTJ, they were all released before I was born. I grew up during the Star Wars dark ages between the original and prequel trilogies. I didn’t see A New Hope (Star Wars back then) until I was 12.
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Well thought out post. I'm in the same boat. By the time I saw the OT the first time, the special effects looked out of date. I enjoy them but have always thought of them as soap opera's in space. I really don't have an attachment to them.

mickEblu said:
Also who doesn’t expect fan service with these kind of movies in general?
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I think both TFA and TROS take it a little far IMO. Something like Mandorian is more my speed on the fan service. The child is certainly a fan a major fan service, but overall the series expands the Star Wars universe without getting caught up in trying to please fans. And it works.

mickEblu said:
if Abrams was just fixing up “mistakes” that RIan Johnson made, I couldn’t tell. I think he wrapped up everything beautifully.
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While JJ was recently quoted as saying some things that may have been seen as being critical of Rian, he said I believe yesterday about how he worked with Rian while he was writing TROS to mesh with TLJ. JJ was writing TROS while Rian was in production for TLJ.

As far as wrapping things up, I will say I disagree on some parts. You can tell the movie was highly tinkered with which caused several story elements to not be payed off. For example what Finn wanted to tell Rey. Which by the way JJ answered.

When asked, JJ said Finn was going to tell Rey he can feel the force. This is backed up when Finn makes a decision on the Star Destroyer based on a feeling. This was never fully addressed in the movie and should have been.

That element was cut for one reason or another. You had also mentioned...

not being satisfied by the Palpetine and Rey ending. I am sure they mapped out and shot more. Rey's mother is played by Jodie Comer a well known Emmy winning actress. She was barely shown. She had to have had a much bigger part that was cut. There had to have been more backstory to explain the relationship between Rey and Palpetine. In addition, they never explain how Palpetine survived. JJ had to have wrote this out. Whether it was cut in pre or post production is something he would have to answer. The result though is the ending is forced and feels unsatisfying.

There are other elements that were also not payed off. JJ tried to not only tie up loose ends from the other 8 movies, he introduced several new ones. It was too much and ultimately he had to leave some storylines unanswered.

While you mention there being more depth the the ST characters I will disagree with the notable exception of Rey and Kylo. The mistake I think Disney made was not following the Marvel blueprint. Instead of Rogue One and Solo, they should have used their non saga films to enhance the saga. This allows there less need to do character development in the saga. Once you had the Avengers get together, you don't have to spend a lot of time getting to know them. That was done with the Iron Man, Captain America etc films. When the Avengers come around, they can just go.

For example, fans were upset over Luke being out of character in TLJ. However, we hadn't seen him in a really long time and the audience had little to go on what occurred during this time that made him evolve. The little bit down in the TLJ is not nearly enough for the most important character in the entire saga. If we had a movie about Luke training new Jedi and the whole Luke/Ben storyline shown to us, the audience would have a better idea why his attitude in TLJ is warranted not toe mention give more depth to Ben/Kylo. What transpired to Luke explains his so called out of character behavior. The audience only saw a small snip-it of this. All they have to go on is his experience in the OT. Furthermore a Poe movie with some backstory would provide depth to him as well. He is a very one note character. If they used the so called stand alone movies to enhance the trilogy they were making ,it would also enhance the trilogy films since we know these characters more. Instead they looked back and tried to do fan service movies, which I think was a mistake.
 
mickEblu

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
SuddenStorm said:
I enjoyed it. Curious how much of it contained spoilers for TRoS, which I'm seeing in an hour.

I like it way better then the Gungans, or the Wookiees.

'87 ST>'19 ST> every other ST
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No spoilers unless you didn’t know Lando was in the movie and don’t want to know what planets are featured.
 

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