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The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

socalifornian

Well-Known Member
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At least the Simpsons license isn’t in perpetuity from what I understand so hopefully Disney can use it as a bargaining chip when it expires. Not that Universal will give up Marvel but Disney should be able to get something out of it.
Until then, the idea of paying even more licensing fees to your biggest competitor must be the best feeling ever
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
IMO if you have been to the International parks, NOS has been topped. Multiple times.
Please be specific, which lands and attractions have topped New Orleans Square with Pirates and Mansion?

I say NoS is the best not because I think it utilizes the best technology (it doesn't), or that bigger, more "immersive" lands haven't been built (they have). I say it is because so much of what we see in modern theme design originates from NoS and it's attractions. Pirates and Mansion have influenced literally everything that have followed- I'd bet most people who want to be in Imagineering or Universal Creative because of either Pirates or Mansion.

I'm having trouble thinking of two attractions that have been as successful in American pop culture as those two- Pirates found new life as a film, and Mansion has a devoted following that buys up every bit of Mansion merchandise Disney puts out.

I think NoS is perfect because it's a unique, highly themed land that manages to draw from the existing surroundings, Rivers of America with the Mark Twain complement the land beautifully. Most new themed lands feel the need to intentionally separate themselves from what was built before- Harry Potter, Cars Land, and now Galaxy's Edge. A land shouldn't just be judged from it's individual merit, but also how it integrates into what was there before (which is where I think Galaxy's Edge is going to fall short).
 
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SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
One thing I like about New Orleansquare is that the theme is basically irrelevant to the content. Outwardly, it seems correct, but POTC has almost nothing to do with the setting outside of a few seconds and HM is completely disconnected once you're inside.
That's something I think the old Imagineers did beautifully. I don't like the idea that an attraction has to take you to a location that fits the existing land. Instead, the attractions should take you to settings that feel like natural extensions of the land- that's why the Fantasyland dark rides, Space Mountain, Star Tours work so well. Pirates and Mansion do as well- but that's partly because of how dang good they are at transporting you into another world- with the Bayou/drop in Pirates- and the elevator in Mansion.

Radiator Springs Racers is the biggest offender- once you're inside the dark ride portion, you're literally inside Radiator Springs- the land you just left. What's inspiring about that? The racing portion is fun and fits the Cars theme beautifully (for obvious reasons), why didn't they extend that and have you race in your own Piston cup, using screens and physical sets to simulate a huge stadium inside the show building?
 

chadwpalm

Well-Known Member
Until then, the idea of paying even more licensing fees to your biggest competitor must be the best feeling ever
They knew it had to happen and that it was a small price to pay in comparison to everything else they got in the deal. I'm looking forward to Disney's streaming service when it's released.
 

chadwpalm

Well-Known Member
Knott’s is a Smuckers product.
You piqued my curiosity, so I did some research. Smucker's purchased the Knott's Berry Farm food products brand in 2008 but only kept the brand going for 5 years and phased it out in 2013. Now their products moved over to being simply labeled as Smuckers [1].

The theme park now gets their preserves and syrups from Linn's in Cambria under the brand "Berry Market" (since Smuckers still owns the Knott's name) [2].

  1. https://www.ocregister.com/2013/03/05/its-still-jam-but-its-no-longer-called-knotts/
  2. https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/community/cambrian/article39508914.html
P.S. I just finished a paper for school, so I was in a citation zone. ;)
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
Please be specific, which lands and attractions have topped New Orleans Square with Pirates and Mansion?
Lands: The majority of lands in Disney Sea. American Waterfront, Mysterious Island, and Mediterranean Harbor being the best of Disney Sea. Cape Cod is pretty underrated in terms of land execution as well. Disneyland Paris has some standouts as well. Overall I would say Disneyland Paris is the best cohesive park out there with AK being second. I love DLP's Main Street, and Adventureland, with Discoveryland being the best TL style land Disney has done.

If you want something closer to home, Africa in AK and gasp Diagon Alley are probably the best themed lands in the states.

Rides: Mystic Manor, Journey to the Center of the Earth among others. I don't think DL's Pirates and HM are even the best version. Pirates in DLP I find to be better and HM is better in Tokyo along Phantom Manor in Paris.

YMMV, but IMO a lot of this best talk revolves around personal experience and memories more than actual objective criticism. As time has gone on, it is only natural that design has evolved and learned from the past. It should be no surprise that technology, design, and execution has improved not regressed.

And let's not have this discussion if you haven't seen these in person. A Disney Sea is overrated take based off a video is a nonstarter for me.
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
So is the "Disney Animals" character brand still happening? I remember it was announced at a Disney convention somewhere in France and even had a screenshot taken. Apparently it was supposed to launch sometime this year.

Maybe we might get more information on "Disney Animals" sometime next month since more news on Disney Plus might get revealed or later this year.

Here's the tweet from last Summer when it was first announced.
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
YMMV, but IMO a lot of this best talk revolves around personal experience and memories more than actual objective criticism. As time has gone on, it is only natural that design has evolved and learned from the past. It should be no surprise that technology, design, and execution has improved not regressed.
If you had read my post, you'd know that what I'm saying isn't based on nostalgia, but instead New Orleans Square's impact on themed entertainment and American pop culture as well as the basic storytelling in a dark ride archetypes that debuted in New Orleans Square. In a sense, I'm trying to base my stance on objective criticism, though that is difficult to do when discussing art.

Of course some storytelling elements and technology have been improved since then, but my argument is that no other land is the complete package the way New Orleans Square does. Many of the lands you mentioned improve on elements of New Orleans Square, but none execute everything as well. They're derivatives from the land and ride design New Orleans Square did so well, not new never be for seen endeavors that change the game for literally decades to come.

I strongly believe that when judging a themed land, you have to look at it's long term impact on the industry and American pop culture, the technical and creative advances present in the attractions, the conditions and time under which the land was built, and it's integration into the park it was built. Of course if you look at a redo of an attraction built 20 years prior, like your Euro Disney Pirates of the Caribbean vs the original, there's going to be improvements- but was Euro Disney's pirates as revolutionary from both a creative and technical standpoint?

And let's not have this discussion if you haven't seen these in person. A Disney Sea is overrated take based off a video is a nonstarter for me.
I missed the part where anyone made the claim that Tokyo Disney is overrated based on a video, but to your point about seeing them in person- you do make an excellent point. I haven't been as fortunate as you- a self proclaimed "Travel Junkie" to visit the foreign parks. But please don't say "New Orleans has been improved upon many times", then when pressed for additional clarification to help us understand your viewpoint respond by naming a bunch of famous themed environments and end with "and if you haven't seen these, we shouldn't even be talking". Please. Educate myself and others here- please respond to what I'm saying instead of misrepresenting my stance and acting annoyed that you'd even be asked about your thoughts.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
If you had read my post, you'd know that what I'm saying isn't based on nostalgia, but instead New Orleans Square's impact on themed entertainment and American pop culture as well as the basic storytelling in a dark ride archetypes that debuted in New Orleans Square. In a sense, I'm trying to base my stance on objective criticism, though that is difficult to do when discussing art.

Of course some storytelling elements and technology have been improved since then, but my argument is that no other land is the complete package the way New Orleans Square does. Many of the lands you mentioned improve on elements of New Orleans Square, but none execute everything as well. They're derivatives from the land and ride design New Orleans Square did so well, not new never be for seen endeavors that change the game for literally decades to come.

I strongly believe that when judging a themed land, you have to look at it's long term impact on the industry and American pop culture, the technical and creative advances present in the attractions, the conditions and time under which the land was built, and it's integration into the park it was built. Of course if you look at a redo of an attraction built 20 years prior, like your Euro Disney Pirates of the Caribbean vs the original, there's going to be improvements- but was Euro Disney's pirates as revolutionary from both a creative and technical standpoint?



I missed the part where anyone made the claim that Tokyo Disney is overrated based on a video, but to your point about seeing them in person- you do make an excellent point. I haven't been as fortunate as you- a self proclaimed "Travel Junkie" to visit the foreign parks. But please don't say "New Orleans has been improved upon many times", then when pressed for additional clarification to help us understand your viewpoint respond by naming a bunch of famous themed environments and end with "and if you haven't seen these, we shouldn't even be talking". Please. Educate myself and others here- please respond to what I'm saying instead of misrepresenting my stance and acting annoyed that you'd even be asked about your thoughts.
Lol @ “we shouldn’t even be talking.”

I agree that to get a complete picture you have to see something in person. But I also believe that most of us here are theme park junkies in our own right and we can get a pretty good idea of an attractions quality through a YouTube ride thru. Obviously this may not be the case for a casual fan but for most of us here it’s pretty easy to fill most of the gap. On numerous occasions I’ve given my impression on an attraction I’ve seen on a ride through video only for someone who has ridden it in person to validate almost my exact thoughts.
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
Many of the lands you mentioned improve on elements of New Orleans Square, but none execute everything as well. They're derivatives from the land and ride design New Orleans Square did so well, not new never be for seen endeavors that change the game for literally decades to come.
I disagree. IMO better executed lands include DLP's Frontierland, TDS's American Waterfront, and Mediterranean Harbor. Diagon Alley is a masterclass in execution.

All lands are evolutions of what came before. I don't find NO Square groundbreaking compared to other lands at DL built only a few years earlier. DL has been much more of a game changer in terms of park design. Even it was influenced by other parks, but it took huge steps forward. NO Square was a small step forward from what was already in DL. Pirates was the next step in what Disney had been building up to for years. It combined several elements other rides had been playing with before it. Personally I don't find the ride that revolutionary in itself.

But please don't say "New Orleans has been improved upon many times", then when pressed for additional clarification to help us understand your viewpoint respond by naming a bunch of famous themed environments and end with "and if you haven't seen these, we shouldn't even be talking".
When was I pressed for additional clarification? I replied to one of your posts. I was never pressed by anyone. There's no need to for the combative nature of your response.

Posters often justify their points by saying they saw a video. Using videos only to justify points was made only a couple pages earlier in the thread. You are talking about rides and lands at a much deeper level. You can't get that from a video. It's simply a tough debate to have if you say NO Square is better than this land or that land when one person hasn't seen it in person. I've had the debate before. It's not worth having. No offense, it just isn't.

To one of the other points you made earlier, I agree GE is going to look out of place in DL because of how it is being designed. I argued as much over a year ago and I was called crazy for making that point.
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
I agree that to get a complete picture you have to see something in person. But I also believe that most of us here are theme park junkies in our own right and we can get a pretty good idea of an attractions quality through a YouTube ride thru. Obviously this may not be the case for a casual fan but for most of us here it’s pretty easy to fill most of the gap. On numerous occasions I’ve given my impression on an attraction I’ve seen on a ride through video only for someone who has ridden it in person to validate almost my exact thoughts.
I don't like watching videos before seeing them in person. I'm not a spoiler type of person. I stopped looking at the Star Wars thread a while ago and after already knowing more than I want to. The reason? Confirmation bias. I'm not saying you can't change your mind, but you are fighting your natural tendency to find verification your first opinion was right. You want to trust your instincts. It's only natural to form an opinion online and then find ways to reinforce that opinion when seeing in person. I think YouTube and Social Media have ultimately been damaging to experiencing theme parks and travel in general.

An interesting experiment would be to poll people after going on Tron when it opens at WDW. Those who had seen a video of it at Shanghai and those who hadn't. My guess is that those who had seen a video before will give it higher ratings than those who hadn't. Same with the Rat ride going into Epcot.
 

Mr. Johnson

Well-Known Member
A. A. Milne (creator of Winnie-the-Pooh) was a big fan of Wind and the Willows and was a big supporter of Disney version being made. (I’m not sure if ever saw or commented on The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad) I wonder what he would’ve thought of Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride being replaced with a creation of his that he tried to distance himself away from later in his life.
 

Rich T

Well-Known Member
A. A. Milne (creator of Winnie-the-Pooh) was a big fan of Wind and the Willows and was a big supporter of Disney version being made. (I’m not sure if ever saw or commented on The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad) I wonder what he would’ve thought of Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride being replaced with a creation of his that he tried to distance himself away from later in his life.
Current Disney management: “They were books???”
 
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