The Magic is gone!

[Jamie77]

FL Resident AP or out of state? My FL Resident with only two weeks blocked out in Spring and Winter is around $500 with renewal.

Out of state. This is the link to the AP prices for the 2000's.

http://allears.net/tix/tixpix00.htm

 

[Raineman]

Success is not perpetual nor is the future always like your past. When people learn the 'new norm' your future is going to be steered by that norm... not the one of the past. Interia happens because it takes awhile for that awareness to propagate.

I agree with this, and everything else in your post. I just don't think we are seeing the results/effects of the new norm yet, and that it may take a while before we do. Once it does, though, the suits at Disney are going to have to make up for years of increased prices and declining customer perceived value, which still may not be enough to woo the people back that have been soured on the Disney park experience. I think it would take a sustained, drastic drop in park attendance to wake Disney up, but this would require more than just the regulars and die-hards getting fed up-the once every three years visitors would have to start to feel this way too, and I don't think we're at that point yet.

 

[John park hopper]

I can remember when Bank of America first started out their customer service was great but as they got bigger and bigger their service declined greatly and in my area they are nothing like they used to be. I wonder if Disney has just gotten too big like Bank of America did. At one time when it was just Disneyland and Disneyworld it seemed customer service was top priority and we weren't nickel and dimed to death, upcharges for everything, room rates seemed reasonable. May be I just have a selective memory and remember only the good from days gone by

 

[pax_65]

How have you gotten your money's worth out of it if you're still paying maintenance annually? Genuinely curious here, that's not a crack at DVC.

I feel like I'm so far ahead in terms of the value I've received over the years that I'm not going to panic if I go a year or two without maximizing value. But obviously if you don't use your points every year it becomes a hassle. I mean, right now I can rent them and use that cash to pay my maintenance fees and take a nice vacation somewhere but that's not why I joined DVC. So I'm hoping things improve so we can get back to using our points the right way on a more regular basis soon.

 

[pax_65]

They need to really jack up prices to control demand, otherwise it will be a mob scene. ...or stink so bad that will drive people out.

I don't know... based on some conversations I've had with friends, I think you'd have to sit down if you looked at the financials of some of the people cramming into the Magic Kingdom today. Can't afford the trip? Just put it on your credit card! It sounds crazy but this is the reality. So I doubt raising the price would deter these people.

I suppose you can understand the arrogance of Disney execs. There is tremendous demand for their product. But they shouldn't get over-confident. Not that long ago, people bought Kodak cameras and Nokia phones at Kmart and Sears. So...

 

[jloucks]

I don't know... based on some conversations I've had with friends, I think you'd have to sit down if you looked at the financials of some of the people cramming into the Magic Kingdom today. Can't afford the trip? Just put it on your credit card! It sounds crazy but this is the reality. So I doubt raising the price would deter these people.

I suppose you can understand the arrogance of Disney execs. There is tremendous demand for their product. But they shouldn't get over-confident. Not that long ago, people bought Kodak cameras and Nokia phones at Kmart and Sears. So...

Hmm,, That is an interesting observation that I have not thought about. Too many people with way too much credit for their income/spending habits. There may be a bubble gearing up to burst there someplace. If it pops, far more than WDW will be affected.

 

[Amidala]

I don't know... based on some conversations I've had with friends, I think you'd have to sit down if you looked at the financials of some of the people cramming into the Magic Kingdom today. Can't afford the trip? Just put it on your credit card! It sounds crazy but this is the reality. So I doubt raising the price would deter these people.

I don't think that's the issue so much as...families that genuinely cannot afford Disney trips (and there are plenty) already aren't going, and will continue not to go in the future...A modest raise in price isn't going to discourage the families who already visit the parks, and a drastic raise in price would only make guests angry.

And also...logically, Disney has no reason to discourage guests from visiting. Maintaining high levels of attendance is more important to Disney execs than keeping the parks uncrowded. And as far as I can tell, that's not something that's keeping most guests up at night. Obviously there have been specific times where the crowds got ridiculous and my patience was pretty thin on the ground, but that's the exception, not the rule. Walking down Main Street on an average (non-peak) day, I don't feel suffocated...there aren't so many people that I feel like I'm standing in traffic or shoulder-to-shoulder with other guests. Maybe in the World Showcase during Food & Wine, during fireworks and castle shows or in bottleneck areas like the walkway between the Small World/Peter Pan's Flight tents, but in general? Not so much. And I spent the better half of last year going to MK at least 4-5 times weekly.

Maybe I don't fully understand the conversation here, but I just don't see how crowding in the parks is a sign of Disney slighting its guests (and this coming from someone who's 100% willing to admit Disney does slight guests all the time). Especially with huge outside expansions like Disney Springs and upcoming expansions like Galaxy's Edge. Even with all of that, expansion isn't necessarily going to spread guests out and thin the crowds...Disney Springs pulls in Orlando locals and others who aren't necessarily on a Disney vacation, but that doesn't mean the expansion wasn't valuable. And I don't think the solution to improving customer satisfaction is to price out guests to the point that lower middle-class families can't afford to go at all. That's completely counter-productive to me.

 

[21stamps]

The Disney-can-do-no-wrong pixiedusters say that you just have to compromise and decide what you want to do with the current setup. Why should I pay a much higher price than I used to have to pick and choose to do *some* of the park attractions? You can tell me you are fine to just stroll around and "take it all in" but our family used to go and hardcore ride the rides and attractions. That was how we "did Disney". I'm not faulting you for saying your way is wrong, but to tell me that I should be ok with paying twice as much for a ticket as I did when I first started visiting and essentially slash what I am able to experience? The NextGen system is majorly flawed when it comes to allowing guests to maximize their time in the parks.

Here’s a few reasons why-
As opposed to this “magical time period” that everyone keeps talking about, we now have a strong economy.
I’m sorry, but I don’t love Disney enough to want to see the stock market falling and homes in crisis, all in order to get lower crowds.

Secondly, if the money is too much to justify- Don’t Go.
Seriously.
I understand not be thrilled to pay for something.. I wasn’t thrilled with buying MVMCP tickets for the same day that I had an adult park hopper for my kid.
But guess what? I think that expense gave us more value than if I would have just used the 1 day hopper and skipped MVMCP. We had an amazing day.

You can not continue to compare the price of entertainment today, to what it was several years ago. The entire entertainment industry has exploded, in pricing- why? Because there is a huge market for it. Today is Today, not Yesterday.

So it boils down to- if you see value or if you don’t. Not if Disney offers “magic” to everyone, only to you. Maybe you’ve outgrown it, maybe you’ve become grumpy and intolerant of crowds, maybe it’s time to just move on to other experiences and destinations.

It’s an individual thought, decision. As we can see with the amount of people who visit, the “Magic” is still there for many, just maybe not “you”.

(All “you”/“your” are general)

 

[jloucks]

I don't think that's the issue so much as...families that genuinely cannot afford Disney trips (and there are plenty) already aren't going, and will continue not to go in the future...A modest raise in price isn't going to discourage the families who already visit the parks, and a drastic raise in price would only make guests angry.

And also...logically, Disney has no reason to discourage guests from visiting. Maintaining high levels of attendance is more important to Disney execs than keeping the parks uncrowded. And as far as I can tell, that's not something that's keeping most guests up at night. Obviously there have been specific times where the crowds got ridiculous and my patience was pretty thin on the ground, but that's the exception, not the rule. Walking down Main Street on an average (non-peak) day, I don't feel suffocated...there aren't so many people that I feel like I'm standing in traffic or shoulder-to-shoulder with other guests. Maybe in the World Showcase during Food & Wine, during fireworks and castle shows or in bottleneck areas like the walkway between the Small World/Peter Pan's Flight tents, but in general? Not so much. And I spent the better half of last year going to MK at least 4-5 times weekly.

Maybe I don't fully understand the conversation here, but I just don't see how crowding in the parks is a sign of Disney slighting its guests (and this coming from someone who's 100% willing to admit Disney does slight guests all the time). Especially with huge outside expansions like Disney Springs and upcoming expansions like Galaxy's Edge. Even with all of that, expansion isn't necessarily going to spread guests out and thin the crowds...Disney Springs pulls in Orlando locals and others who aren't necessarily on a Disney vacation, but that doesn't mean the expansion wasn't valuable. And I don't think the solution to improving customer satisfaction is to price out guests to the point that lower middle-class families can't afford to go at all. That's completely counter-productive to me.

One reason Disney would want to discourage guests from visiting is that if the mass mob atmosphere actually earns them less money then a lower crowd relaxed atmosphere.

Wild unsubstantiated assumption here, but the more money you have, the less likely you are to subjugate yourself to a leisure activity that involves a mob atmosphere. So, the upper/middle class folks vacate and leave the park to the less affluent giant masses. ...which collectively may spend less money on trinkets and grub than a smaller group of wealthier consumers. They would definitely spend less on luxury accommodations. That is where the pinch should become apparent first.

Unless of course they keep lowering the price of the high-end accommodations.

So, that would be what to watch for that would indicate I am correct. Low occupancy luxury resorts or significant price decreases on luxury reports.

 

[pax_65]

So it boils down to- if you see value or if you don’t. Not if Disney offers “magic” to everyone, only to you. Maybe you’ve outgrown it, maybe you’ve become grumpy and intolerant of crowds, maybe it’s time to just move on to other experiences and destinations.

Totally valid points but isn't there room for discussion, to say "I disagree with how Disney is running the park?" Yes, the economy is up. Yes, demand is up. This should be good news for Disney. So why has Disney cut park hours and live entertainment in recent years? Why has Disney laid off cast members? Why has Disney been so slow to build new attractions? Why has FP+ made the crowds worse, when the promise was FPs would be easier to get and we'd spend LESS time in lines (or running around for paper FPs)?

As I said I am going to WDW less (and may continue to reduce my trips) but it sucks to see something I love decline. I'm not going to just say, "Ok that's that... I'm done" without at least voicing my concerns first.

 

[Amidala]

One reason Disney would want to discourage guests from visiting is that if the mass mob atmosphere actually earns them less money then a lower crowd relaxed atmosphere.

Wild unsubstantiated assumption here, but the more money you have, the less likely you are to subjugate yourself to a leisure activity that involves a mob atmosphere. So, the upper/middle class folks vacate and leave the park to the less affluent giant masses. ...which collectively may spend less money on trinkets and grub than a smaller group of wealthier consumers. They would definitely spend less on luxury accommodations. That is where the pinch should become apparent first.

Unless of course they keep lowering the price of the high-end accommodations.

So, that would be what to watch for that would indicate I am correct. Low occupancy luxury resorts or significant price decreases on luxury reports.

I mean, that's a totally fair point but...For me, if you look at the sheer number of people pouring into the parks per day, spending money not just on admission but on merchandise, food, upcharge events, etc....and you compare that to the families who find the crowded atmosphere too overwhelming and decide not to go as often...IMO Disney still benefits. Like I guess what I'm asking is, how many people do you think REALLY are outright refusing to go to WDW because of the crowds? Not how many people are complaining about the crowds, but how many people have given up on WDW as a viable vacation option completely? Because (and of course, I can't substantiate this either) my guess would be...not enough to constitute a problem.

And that includes the more affluent folks, because you have Disney building up DVC resorts, offering an obscene number of upcharge events, because...a lot of the time, people are willing to shell out the cash for it. And for the most part, I'm going to assume it's not lower/lower-middle class guests who are doing that spending. I guess you could argue that Disney is offering these things because they want to lure more affluent guests in, but it seems more like there's an existing demand. Again, though...I'm just speculating here.

 

[eliza61nyc]

THANK-YOU! That is precisely how I feel. Disney has indeed lost my future support. So glad I didn't buy into Old Key West when they first offered it. I pity the fools who accepted the Disney Vacation Club. Got to admit that I was slightly tempted though, but the fact that it was a time share really turned me off. My average cost for a week at WDW in the early 90s was less than $2500. Today that same week is in the neighborhood of $10,000. (We prefer the deluxe resorts and the deluxe dining plan.) I expect some enjoyment (and a little Magic) with our stay. We didn't go every year,we normally went every three to four years. Disney has turned that money away. I'm not rich, I work very hard for my income, but I believe in the American Family Vacation so a portion of my income is placed into an account to ensure that. As a family we always had a blast together at WDW. So the loyal customer (me and my family) are no longer. I've always been one to "Snort the Pixie Dust", so I admit that's why I'm here on the forum. But if "Cold Turkey" is needed then so be it.

.

lol. why??? I purchased a share at the Beach club. My annual fees are only 1000 bucks and I get enough points to stay a week every year in a 1 bedroom suite. NO way no how would I be able to stay at disney for 1000 bucks a week even if I dropped down to a moderate. My initial investment was a little over 13K and if I sold it today I could ask for easy 90 per point.

It's one of the very few timeshares that retains it's value, thanks to Disney having right of first refusal. Now timeshares are not investment vehicles but I've definitely made a great choice.

 

[ChantingTiki]

They should consider blackout days for all pass holders levels and compensate by having a few pass holder only days.

That is not a good idea. People with the toppest tier of pass would be seriously POd to get more blackout dates for a pass they pay 800+ dollars a year for.

 

[BrerWayne]

lol. why??? I purchased a share at the Beach club. My annual fees are only 1000 bucks and I get enough points to stay a week every year in a 1 bedroom suite. NO way no how would I be able to stay at disney for 1000 bucks a week even if I dropped down to a moderate. My initial investment was a little over 13K and if I sold it today I could ask for easy 90 per point.

It's one of the very few timeshares that retains it's value, thanks to Disney having right of first refusal. Now timeshares are not investment vehicles but I've definitely made a great choice.

I have a question-I’m not sure how DVC works. So you pay 13k up front and then it’s 1k a year on top of that amount?

 

[The_Bellringer]

People have to adjust their expectations.

I'm a Disneyland regular, and Disneyland has always been a small park. You just go in EXPECTING crowds. Just know it will be crowded, you might have to plan your day a bit, and you'll still have a blast.

Sounds like WDW is becoming the same way - just expect crowds. The place is magical and popular, and more and more people will come.

 

[John park hopper]

I have a question-I’m not sure how DVC works. So you pay 13k up front and then it’s 1k a year on top of that amount?

If I'm not mistaken the up front charge will vary with the DVC package it can be considerable more than 13K. The maintenance fees vary also and go up each year. Someone correct me if I am wrong

 

[pax_65]

I have a question-I’m not sure how DVC works. So you pay 13k up front and then it’s 1k a year on top of that amount?

This is a whole different thread (and I'm sure there are many if you look) but the short answer is what you pay depends on how many points you purchase and what the going rate is for points at that resort. So new points will likely cost more at the Grand Floridian than they will on the resale market at Old Key West. Similarly the maintenance fees are charged depending on the resort - some resorts have higher fees just because of how they're built (I think OKW is higher because it's all spread our with many buildings versus a building like Boardwalk that is all contained in basically 1 building). But that $13K up front and $1K (or a little more) a year is probably a decent ballpark for most people - it's about what we paid.

It might sound like a huge outlay of cash (and I suppose it is) but when you're going 2-3 times a year like we used to, you get to stay in awesome accommodations (way better than a hotel room) and you quickly see the value in it when compared to paying for a hotel room for every night of those stays. And as Eliza said, if I sold my points now I could probably make money on them versus what I paid, making all of those vacation basically free or close to it.

Obviously it's not for everyone and you need to go enough to justify the cost but for us it was a tremendous purchase - I just hope we're able to continue to get good use from it in WDW (assuming the parks are still enjoyable for us).

 

[BrerWayne]

This is a whole different thread (and I'm sure there are many if you look) but the short answer is what you pay depends on how many points you purchase and what the going rate is for points at that resort. So new points will likely cost more at the Grand Floridian than they will on the resale market at Old Key West. Similarly the maintenance fees are charged depending on the resort - some resorts have higher fees just because of how they're built (I think OKW is higher because it's all spread our with many buildings versus a building like Boardwalk that is all contained in basically 1 building). But that $13K up front and $1K (or a little more) a year is probably a decent ballpark for most people - it's about what we paid.

It might sound like a huge outlay of cash (and I suppose it is) but when you're going 2-3 times a year like we used to, you get to stay in awesome accommodations (way better than a hotel room) and you quickly see the value in it when compared to paying for a hotel room for every night of those stays. And as Eliza said, if I sold my points now I could probably make money on them versus what I paid, making all of those vacation basically free or close to it.

Obviously it's not for everyone and you need to go enough to justify the cost but for us it was a tremendous purchase - I just hope we're able to continue to get good use from it in WDW (assuming the parks are still enjoyable for us).

Thanks for the info. Didn’t mean to hijack the thread. Should have done a search, just my curiosity got the best of me.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Plus you could not ride the big rides multiple times late at night anymore.

Yeah. It used to be that if you got there right at opening, or stayed until closing, you could hit the same ride several times with no wait or hit multiple rides before the crowds build up. Some of my fondest memories are riding Space Mountain or Tower of Terror 4 times in a row with no wait in the morning with my mom, back in the late 90's. Today, unless you are lucky and get the random light day (which is now rare and impossible to predict), for major attractions you might get ONE short line in the morning, and another short line right before the line is cut off for closing, and the only reason for these short waits is because no Fastpass holders are entering right at opening or after closing. Fastpass+ has ensured that every ride has a wait time all the time.

 

[spacemtnfanatic]

And this right here is why I no longer go. 90% of my park time is hardcore riding and that is truly not possible anymore. I don't need to spend a small fortune on an Annual Pass to "stroll around and take it all in" knowing that what I find enjoyable in the parks is no longer something that is doable.