The Magic is gone!

[spacemtnfanatic]

People have to adjust their expectations.

I'm a Disneyland regular, and Disneyland has always been a small park. You just go in EXPECTING crowds. Just know it will be crowded, you might have to plan your day a bit, and you'll still have a blast.

Sounds like WDW is becoming the same way - just expect crowds. The place is magical and popular, and more and more people will come.

I can deal with the crowds. And I can adjust to crowds. What I can't adjust to is the terrible way WDW has started handling these crowds and the MM+ system that essentially limits anyone's ability to experience a high number of attractions.

 

[21stamps]

And this right here is why I no longer go. 90% of my park time is hardcore riding and that is truly not possible anymore. I don't need to spend a small fortune on an Annual Pass to "stroll around and take it all in" knowing that what I find enjoyable in the parks is no longer something that is doable.

If rides are your top priority, I’d definitely skip WDW. We go to Cedar Fair parks because we are roller coaster junkies.. we go to Disney for the theme.
Your money would be much better spent at a coaster park! Nothing wrong with that

 

[MinnieWaffles]

Theme parks are crowded?! Never! And the most popular resort in the world at that!! With all the people who apparently never ever return, I would have thought I could walk onto every single ride.

 

[RHCP Mickey]

I'm an AP holder who is there all the time, but on Friday the 9th, I went with two of my cousins who hadn't been in 10 years. We made FPs for MK in the afternoon and hit three parks and 17 rides without any rush. All four at DHS, Space/Splash/Thunder, HM, PoTC, Soarin', Mission Space, Spaceship Earth, and some smaller ones. We also did two laps around World Showcase and watched Illuminations. No Extra Magic Hours, no late night at MK. The lines are certainly unpleasantly long at times, but with a minimal amount of planning, you can still have a great time!

 

[Cameron1529]

Face it folks, we all knew it was a matter of time before everyone else caught on to our tricks of when to go and when not to go to WDW. My preferred time was the 1st two weeks of December. But,between the Brazilians love for Disney World and Europeans disgust of Disney Paris, everyone is flocking to Orlando. Those days of low attendance have vanished.

I live on the Gulf Coast which is approximately a 7-8 hour drive to WDW. Many folks here from Alabama to Texas are avid Disney Freaks, and we all have the antenna toppers to prove it. But much of the Disney talk among us lately has been mostly negative. The consensus is that Disney has not expanded enough to handle the crowds. The planned up grades to the parks (i.e. Star Wars and Pixar) is too little and still will not ease the situation. A lot of the talk has turned into how folks are fed up with Disney and going there is a waste of money. I'm reading much of the same about Disneyland.

I'm posting this here because I know that a lot of you who visit this Forum, earn your livelihood through Disney in some way or another. If we here on the Gulf Coast stop going, how much longer will it be before the good folks from New England and the Heartland get fed up as well. Disney once looked at building a park in New England. Perhaps they should revisit the idea of a 3rd Kingdom inside the United States, or build a 5th park in Orlando.

As for myself, my last trip I payed in the neighborhood of $5000 for a 5 day trip in October. The parks were so crowded it was elbow room only much of the time, and the weather was hot. Even my grandchildren admitted that they did not enjoy the trip. When a child tells me they don't want to go back to Orlando I have to listen to them. So in essence unless Disney does something drastic, my last trip....."was my last trip".

I don't necessarily believe that the Star Wars and Toy Story upgrades are too little, they haven't even been put into action yet. Judgements can be made theoretically but may be very different in practise. When these two lands do open, it will most likely draw a significant amount of people to DHS, which in theory may take away crowds from other parks.

Crowds have always been a part of Disney and will peak at certain times of the year. There are plenty of days when the park is absolutely empty and that relates to a number of factors which cannot always be predicted. This is why it is becoming increasingly important to plan your trip, utilise FASTPASS and put in place strategies. For example taking advantage of rope drop, going to big attractions early etc...

What changes should Disney make to ensure this isn't your last trip??

 

[Cameron1529]

They should consider blackout days for all pass holders levels and compensate by having a few pass holder only days.

That could very well be a great idea. It would reduce the numbers in the park by an amount. I wonder what percentage of people who attend Disney on a daily basis are pass holders? (obviously this would fluctuate)

 

[Cameron1529]

I honestly feel that people just love to complain. No matter how good something is, people want bigger and better. I took a trip to WDW in February for the last 3 years in a row. Have crowd levels increased? Absolutely. But you know what? Me and my girlfriend were still able to ride any ride we wanted, eat whatever we wanted, catch any show we wanted and could come and go as we pleased. The fact is this - the majority of people believe things will never be as good as they used to be and truly believe that things can be bigger and better. WDW truly is my home away from home and there are still countless amounts of magical moments/memories to be made. In a world where pessimism is the trend, be the optimist. Your trip/visit/experience/moments are what you make them.

I could not agree with you more

 

[Tom Morrow]

Theme parks are crowded?! Never! And the most popular resort in the world at that!! With all the people who apparently never ever return, I would have thought I could walk onto every single ride.

It never used to be packed all the time like it is now.

 

[ford91exploder]

I feel like I'm so far ahead in terms of the value I've received over the years that I'm not going to panic if I go a year or two without maximizing value. But obviously if you don't use your points every year it becomes a hassle. I mean, right now I can rent them and use that cash to pay my maintenance fees and take a nice vacation somewhere but that's not why I joined DVC. So I'm hoping things improve so we can get back to using our points the right way on a more regular basis soon.

Wish I shared your optimism, when my last renter finishes their vacation the remainder of my points hit the market.

 

[Smooth]

It's so crowded nobody goes there anymore.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

Look, the magic is still there. No one does it like Disney still.

The problem being is that Magic Kingdom needs more rides to spread things out. We went after Thanksgiving and for whatever reason I figured it would be a good time to go, after all the first week after the holidays everyone is back home right? Wrong! Our kids did not hold us back, but the lines did. We still had a wonderful day and I wouldn't take it back but here is a list of the good rides we didn't go on because of lines or running out of time because of lines:

Jungle Cruise, Space Mountain, Thunder Mountain, Tom Sawyer Island, Peter Pan, Winnie the Pooh, Seven Dwarfs Mine Ride, Tomorrowland Speedway, Buzz Lightyear.

Of course, we did basically everything else which is still a lot of great rides but man that is a lot of good rides to miss.

I remember walking on Pirates and Jungle Cruise back in 2009 with ease. Maybe a 5 minute wait. This was September, but still. Peter Pan is always long too. They make the mistake of getting rid of dark rides like Snow White and putting in Meet and Greets. So it dawned on me, why were the lines at Disneyland in 2012 so much shorter? The reason I think is that they have utilized their space better. There are 53 attractions in Disneyland compared to 38-40 in Magic Kingdom. That is more people to spread out. I remember going through Fantasyland like clockwork at Disneyland. We waited for each non-Peter Pan ride for 2-3 minutes sometimes. It is because there are more rides. There are more rides but still less people. Magic Kingdom has more people and less rides.

 

[bluetiedye]

This is a classic. "Disney is too crowded, so nobody will go anymore."

The Disney World magic touches more and more people every year, and that's not something to mourn.

 

[Berret]

They should consider blackout days for all pass holders levels and compensate by having a few pass holder only days.

And what about those who only get to come once every few years, if that, and then one or more of the days, "Sorry, you're not an annual pass holder? Go somewhere else. Have a magical day!"

 

[spacemtnfanatic]

Look, the magic is still there. No one does it like Disney still.

The problem being is that Magic Kingdom needs more rides to spread things out. We went after Thanksgiving and for whatever reason I figured it would be a good time to go, after all the first week after the holidays everyone is back home right? Wrong! Our kids did not hold us back, but the lines did. We still had a wonderful day and I wouldn't take it back but here is a list of the good rides we didn't go on because of lines or running out of time because of lines:

Jungle Cruise, Space Mountain, Thunder Mountain, Tom Sawyer Island, Peter Pan, Winnie the Pooh, Seven Dwarfs Mine Ride, Tomorrowland Speedway, Buzz Lightyear.

Of course, we did basically everything else which is still a lot of great rides but man that is a lot of good rides to miss.

I remember walking on Pirates and Jungle Cruise back in 2009 with ease. Maybe a 5 minute wait. This was September, but still. Peter Pan is always long too. They make the mistake of getting rid of dark rides like Snow White and putting in Meet and Greets. So it dawned on me, why were the lines at Disneyland in 2012 so much shorter? The reason I think is that they have utilized their space better. There are 53 attractions in Disneyland compared to 38-40 in Magic Kingdom. That is more people to spread out. I remember going through Fantasyland like clockwork at Disneyland. We waited for each non-Peter Pan ride for 2-3 minutes sometimes. It is because there are more rides. There are more rides but still less people. Magic Kingdom has more people and less rides.

I think the bigger issue is that Magic Kingdom (and now Animal Kingdom) are the only parks that DO have enough rides as attractions to make it a "full day experience" if you are primarily looking to ride. More people are spending more time at Magic Kingdom because there just isn't enough to do for them at the other parks. Let's face it, Epcot and Studios aren't going to do much for you these days if you are a rider. And even though Animal Kingdom has a lot more, many folks are skipping Pandora simply because of the insane crowds and it is still a half day park for many.

And you walked on rides like Jungle Cruise and Pirates in 2009 because the MM+ system was still years away from ruining the guest experience in terms of maximizing the number of attractions and rerides one could get per day. The first week of December was always an incredibly good time to come and get some riding done. Now even on an average day of crowds, you are still going to wait 40 minutes for Pirates and Jungle Cruise because MM+ has completely changed the crowd flow and the way in which attractions can be experienced. You can praise it all you want. But MM+ has drastically altered the park experience and for those of us who don't care about shows, street entertainment, and "taking it all in", it's not at all a guest friendly experience anymore.

 

[spacemtnfanatic]

If rides are your top priority, I’d definitely skip WDW. We go to Cedar Fair parks because we are roller coaster junkies.. we go to Disney for the theme.
Your money would be much better spent at a coaster park! Nothing wrong with that

And that is exactly what I do now. I have my Cedar Fair Platinum Pass and am happy to drive the 7 hours from Orlando to Carowinds and fly up to other CF parks. And my UO AP gets a lot of use.

The sad thing is I absolutely love and adore so many WDW rides. But I'm not about to pay 5 times what my Cedar Fair pass costs to get into the construction site known as Studios to stand in line for 75 minutes for Tower of Terror or RnRC because MM+ has made it impossible to simply "do the park." I'll swing over to Universal and wait a normal amount of time for The Mummy and Hulk (RIP Dragons) and use the heck out of my Cedar Fair pass (and vacation days) in the summer.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Theme parks are crowded?! Never! And the most popular resort in the world at that!! With all the people who apparently never ever return, I would have thought I could walk onto every single ride.

"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."
- Yogi Berra

 

[winstongator]

Face it folks, we all knew it was a matter of time before everyone else caught on to our tricks of when to go and when not to go to WDW. My preferred time was the 1st two weeks of December. But,between the Brazilians love for Disney World and Europeans disgust of Disney Paris, everyone is flocking to Orlando. Those days of low attendance have vanished.

I live on the Gulf Coast which is approximately a 7-8 hour drive to WDW. Many folks here from Alabama to Texas are avid Disney Freaks, and we all have the antenna toppers to prove it. But much of the Disney talk among us lately has been mostly negative. The consensus is that Disney has not expanded enough to handle the crowds. The planned up grades to the parks (i.e. Star Wars and Pixar) is too little and still will not ease the situation. A lot of the talk has turned into how folks are fed up with Disney and going there is a waste of money. I'm reading much of the same about Disneyland.

I'm posting this here because I know that a lot of you who visit this Forum, earn your livelihood through Disney in some way or another. If we here on the Gulf Coast stop going, how much longer will it be before the good folks from New England and the Heartland get fed up as well. Disney once looked at building a park in New England. Perhaps they should revisit the idea of a 3rd Kingdom inside the United States, or build a 5th park in Orlando.

As for myself, my last trip I payed in the neighborhood of $5000 for a 5 day trip in October. The parks were so crowded it was elbow room only much of the time, and the weather was hot. Even my grandchildren admitted that they did not enjoy the trip. When a child tells me they don't want to go back to Orlando I have to listen to them. So in essence unless Disney does something drastic, my last trip....."was my last trip".

How the crowds get handled is through people waiting in lines. 'New' rides include 7DMT, FoP, NRJ. Coming up you have 2 at TSL, 2 at SWGE, Tron, GoG coaster & Remy in Epcot. That's 3 over the past 4 years vs. 7 that will come online in the next 3 years or so. Take each of the 3 'new' rides at 2 hr waits. Their theoretical hourly capacities are 1650, 1600 & 1200. 2*(1650+1600+1200). That's 9000 additional guests in line - 'optimistically'. Average daily attendance for the 4 parks is in the ballpark of 150k (annual attendance for the 4 parks total/365). 9k guests absorbed is 6% of that. 7 new rides will help, but even that would be almost 10% of daily attendance. These are also not factoring in more people attending for the new attractions. Pandora has been popular, but SWGE will crush it in terms of lines, and in the number of additional guests to WDW to visit that land. We'll see how DAK attendance looks for 2017 vs 2016.

Disney's other to turn to reduce crowding is to increase prices. I think they'll keep increasing until they see a limited impact on attendance. Imagine 25% price increases causing a 5% drop in attendance. From park tickets Disney makes a 19% gain. They do lose on the merch & food. They might just keep increasing to keep attendance level.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The problem being is that Magic Kingdom needs more rides to spread things out.

Wonderful theory, but that's not how it works at the Magic Kingdom. Capacity is not static, it's dynamic. Adding new rides 1) spreads things out, but it also 2) brings more people through the gates in the first place. If attendance increases by more than the added capacity, your plan to "spread things out" has actually made the park more crowded, not less.

They way you spread people out is to take them out of the Magic Kingdom entirely, which is exactly what they're doing (Avatar, Star Wars, Toy Story, Epcot overhaul).

 

[winstongator]

I do wonder what the average perception of the place is these days for those who have no previous memories or attachment to it. For me, nostalgia and my past experiences, along with hoping to share those experiences with new people, makes the parks fun enough for me. But without having been here as a child in the 90's, or frequently in the 00's before the constant massive crowds and pre-planning, what would I think of it?

Between massive crowds, endless strollers and ECVs, long waits for everything in which lines inch along due to Fastpass+, Fastpass+ that is difficult to get anything decent for if you don't do it in advance... the demographic shifting toward a more childish approach (in most cases) instead of being "for everyone"... I can totally see why the whole experience is off-putting without having experienced it either as a kid or in the better days.

I was a kid in the 80's. My fuzzy memories are of endless lines with unhappy family members and everything being super expensive. Had almost 20 years from early 90's to early 2010's away from WDW. FP+ gives us a few quick rides, rope dropping gets us a couple more, bring my own snacks & water, and I don't mind the prices for one or two meals a day at WDW prices. I would not trade one second of my recent experiences at WDW as a parent of young kids for my time there as a young kid in the 80's.

 

[winstongator]

Wonderful theory, but that's not how it works at the Magic Kingdom. Capacity is not static, it's dynamic. Adding new rides 1) spreads things out, but it also 2) brings more people through the gates in the first place. If attendance increases by more than the added capacity, your plan to "spread things out" has actually made the park more crowded, not less.

Good point! Capacity increase from 7dmt is roughly 3300 (using 2hr wait & theoretical hourly capacity). MK attendance increase since 2014 is about 2700/day. You're right that nearly all of it has been used up.

For DAK & Pandora, I've noticed shorter lines for Everest & Kali River Rapids. What's the capacity of the Rivers of Light viewing area? How many people pack the plaza & Main St for the new fireworks & projection show (vs. the old one). You don't have MSEP anymore Those shows can take guests away from attractions, but if attendance is going up to match it, or even outstripping it, you don't see any crowd reduction from the new attractions.