The Magic is gone!

[CaptainAmerica]

Good point! Capacity increase from 7dmt is roughly 3300 (using 2hr wait & theoretical hourly capacity). MK attendance increase since 2014 is about 2700/day. You're right that nearly all of it has been used up.

For DAK & Pandora, I've noticed shorter lines for Everest & Kali River Rapids. What's the capacity of the Rivers of Light viewing area? How many people pack the plaza & Main St for the new fireworks & projection show (vs. the old one). You don't have MSEP anymore Those shows can take guests away from attractions, but if attendance is going up to match it, or even outstripping it, you don't see any crowd reduction from the new attractions.

Not to mention that "fixed" infrastructure things can't easily be flexed up and down to accommodate new capacity.

Let's say, for the sake of discussion, that New Fantasyland added exactly as much capacity as it did increased crowds. The crowds are absorbed by the new land at a 1-to-1 ratio, meaning there are more people in the park but it feels exactly as crowded as it did before. This is only true when it comes to attractions, footpaths, merchandise locations, bathrooms, and dining, since these things were all expanded along with the land. What wasn't expanded? The monorail trains. The monorail stations. The parking lot. The main entrance. Main Street, USA. The hub. The ferry boats. The buses. Even though the new crowds were "absorbed" by the new land for most of the day, they put extra strain on the park's fixed infrastructure at peak times (opening, closing, parades, and fireworks). I'm convinced this is the reason that the nighttime parade was put on hold. Main Street at parade time isn't any bigger today than it was in 2002, despite vastly larger crowds. It was a "pinch point" in the park's daily operation that couldn't be sustained.

 

[21stamps]

I was a kid in the 80's. My fuzzy memories are of endless lines with unhappy family members and everything being super expensive. Had almost 20 years from early 90's to early 2010's away from WDW. FP+ gives us a few quick rides, rope dropping gets us a couple more, bring my own snacks & water, and I don't mind the prices for one or two meals a day at WDW prices. I would not trade one second of my recent experiences at WDW as a parent of young kids for my time there as a young kid in the 80's.

Whew.. it’s not just my memory!! I always remember long lines as a kid. My grandmother was confined to a wheelchair in the late 80s, we used to think it was “so cool” that we could go in an alternate entrance on many rides during those years... skipping the lines that we had previously waited in.

 

[King Capybara 77]

Not sure if it has been mentioned so just going to leave this here ...
https://twitter.com/morganswildride/status/939155907124105216

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I was a kid in the 80's. My fuzzy memories are of endless lines with unhappy family members and everything being super expensive. Had almost 20 years from early 90's to early 2010's away from WDW. FP+ gives us a few quick rides, rope dropping gets us a couple more, bring my own snacks & water, and I don't mind the prices for one or two meals a day at WDW prices. I would not trade one second of my recent experiences at WDW as a parent of young kids for my time there as a young kid in the 80's.

Awww, they are so cute at Disney when they are young. But trying to feed a teen at WDW is a costly endeavor. Take advantage of the buffets.

 

[spacemtnfanatic]

Not sure if it has been mentioned so just going to leave this here ...
https://twitter.com/morganswildride/status/939155907124105216

Fair point. But this is a solo traveler during a slower time of year. What were the standby lines? Would a "casual" guest know how to do this so strategically? And without MM+, was the park slow enough where in the old days you could have done this (and then some) simply through the standby lines and perhaps a small handful of paper FPs for the big rides?

 

[selbymic]

I only go M-TH and I hit those so called soft spots, but there really isn't a time that the parks aren't crammed full. The best time is when it is raining really hard and the Floridians go home. It never rains for more than an hour or so. I gave up my AP about 5 years ago, because it takes such careful planning to find a way to enjoy the parks. My criteria is that I just try to find one magical moment. I hold on to that to compensate for the things that annoy us all. I begin and end with something that makes me smile.

 

[winstongator]

Not to mention that "fixed" infrastructure things can't easily be flexed up and down to accommodate new capacity.

Let's say, for the sake of discussion, that New Fantasyland added exactly as much capacity as it did increased crowds. The crowds are absorbed by the new land at a 1-to-1 ratio, meaning there are more people in the park but it feels exactly as crowded as it did before. This is only true when it comes to attractions, footpaths, merchandise locations, bathrooms, and dining, since these things were all expanded along with the land. What wasn't expanded? The monorail trains. The monorail stations. The parking lot. The main entrance. Main Street, USA. The hub. The ferry boats. The buses. Even though the new crowds were "absorbed" by the new land for most of the day, they put extra strain on the park's fixed infrastructure at peak times (opening, closing, parades, and fireworks). I'm convinced this is the reason that the nighttime parade was put on hold. Main Street at parade time isn't any bigger today than it was in 2002, despite vastly larger crowds. It was a "pinch point" in the park's daily operation that couldn't be sustained.

They've worked on some of that with the changed security checkpoints for the MK. However...They could use more buses. The monorails need work so that they run closer to 100% of the time. My biggest problem with them has been when they're completely down. They could add a ferry. How much did they spend on Pandora? Are they spending on TSL & the two SWGE's? I think some targeted investment could really help guest experience with those infrastructure pinch points.

 

[Dave B]

Yeah. It used to be that if you got there right at opening, or stayed until closing, you could hit the same ride several times with no wait or hit multiple rides before the crowds build up. Some of my fondest memories are riding Space Mountain or Tower of Terror 4 times in a row with no wait in the morning with my mom, back in the late 90's. Today, unless you are lucky and get the random light day (which is now rare and impossible to predict), for major attractions you might get ONE short line in the morning, and another short line right before the line is cut off for closing, and the only reason for these short waits is because no Fastpass holders are entering right at opening or after closing. Fastpass+ has ensured that every ride has a wait time all the time.

I really think it comes down to the day you go and time period. And yes there are not to many times anymore. We just went from 11/16---11/26 the first few days were really good, obviously once the Wed before Thanksgiving it got really busy thru the weekend. But I will tell you on Sunday night after Thanksgiving we went to Hollywood studios and rode Rock and Roll Coaster 5 times in a row, on and off, no wait, this was after hitting Tower of Terror twice within 30 minutes. We then went to Disneyworld on Monday night and rode Thunder mountain 4 times in a row, then ran to splash and rode it twice, then hit jungle cruise on the way out and walked on, this was all at the end of the night. Next night we went Animal Kingdom and rode FoP three times, once with a fast pass and didn't wait more than an hour the second time and less than 45 minutes the third time, we then went over to Navi River and walked on and rode twice before park closed. I think you have to be strategic with your day and times, there are windows out there, but you cant expect it anymore that is for sure

 

[Dave B]

Good point! Capacity increase from 7dmt is roughly 3300 (using 2hr wait & theoretical hourly capacity). MK attendance increase since 2014 is about 2700/day. You're right that nearly all of it has been used up.

For DAK & Pandora, I've noticed shorter lines for Everest & Kali River Rapids. What's the capacity of the Rivers of Light viewing area? How many people pack the plaza & Main St for the new fireworks & projection show (vs. the old one). You don't have MSEP anymore Those shows can take guests away from attractions, but if attendance is going up to match it, or even outstripping it, you don't see any crowd reduction from the new attractions.

Never waited more than 15-20 minutes for Everest since Pandora opened, and walked right on Kali Rivers

 

[spock8113]

I also now know what Lucille and BB King were singing about!

 

[Disneyworld_here_we_come]

I was a kid in the 80's. My fuzzy memories are of endless lines with unhappy family members and everything being super expensive. Had almost 20 years from early 90's to early 2010's away from WDW. FP+ gives us a few quick rides, rope dropping gets us a couple more, bring my own snacks & water, and I don't mind the prices for one or two meals a day at WDW prices. I would not trade one second of my recent experiences at WDW as a parent of young kids for my time there as a young kid in the 80's.

I have the same memories. We did land when I was a kid as I grew up in Vegas. I remember always waiting in long lines. Went to world in 92 when I was 11 and hated it. I just remember being miserable. Went in 2010 with my kids and it was totally different. I fell in love. Went back this October and had a wonderful time. I can't wait to go back someday. I never once found the crowds unbearable like others mentioned and aside from Pandora, wait times were rarely over 45 mins with plenty being less. We also did universal and most of their wait times were worse for us, still had a great time though.

 

[22YrsDVC]

I also now know what Lucille and BB King were singing about!

I've got those low down dirty Disney Queue Blues.

 

[Bpmorley]

Face it folks, we all knew it was a matter of time before everyone else caught on to our tricks of when to go and when not to go to WDW. My preferred time was the 1st two weeks of December. But,between the Brazilians love for Disney World and Europeans disgust of Disney Paris, everyone is flocking to Orlando. Those days of low attendance have vanished.

I live on the Gulf Coast which is approximately a 7-8 hour drive to WDW. Many folks here from Alabama to Texas are avid Disney Freaks, and we all have the antenna toppers to prove it. But much of the Disney talk among us lately has been mostly negative. The consensus is that Disney has not expanded enough to handle the crowds. The planned up grades to the parks (i.e. Star Wars and Pixar) is too little and still will not ease the situation. A lot of the talk has turned into how folks are fed up with Disney and going there is a waste of money. I'm reading much of the same about Disneyland.

I'm posting this here because I know that a lot of you who visit this Forum, earn your livelihood through Disney in some way or another. If we here on the Gulf Coast stop going, how much longer will it be before the good folks from New England and the Heartland get fed up as well. Disney once looked at building a park in New England. Perhaps they should revisit the idea of a 3rd Kingdom inside the United States, or build a 5th park in Orlando.

As for myself, my last trip I payed in the neighborhood of $5000 for a 5 day trip in October. The parks were so crowded it was elbow room only much of the time, and the weather was hot. Even my grandchildren admitted that they did not enjoy the trip. When a child tells me they don't want to go back to Orlando I have to listen to them. So in essence unless Disney does something drastic, my last trip....."was my last trip".

If you think about it, Disney has not built or really expanded any parks in years. How many more resorts? DVCs? have they built in that time frame? I think everyone that goes continuously has noticed this. The last couple years we've brought people that had never been there before. I was embarrassed when I would tell them how empty it would be only to see record sized crowds the first 2 weeks of December. I believe our time as DVC members will be coming to an end soon of something doesn't change

 

[SourcererMark79]

The next test will be jan/Feb 2018. If it's like the first two weeks this december...

 

[Nubs70]

When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown
The dream is gone
I have become comfortably numb

 

[Duckberg]

The Disney bean counters are loving these crowds.

 

[ColinP29]

Fingers crossed all the miserable people stop going and the rest of us can enjoy it that little but more

 

[pax_65]

Fingers crossed all the miserable people stop going and the rest of us can enjoy it that little but more

Fair enough, and you're getting your wish with me since I'm not in the parks nearly as often as I used to be.

Be careful what you wish for, though... you're losing people who have loved the parks for years, who respect the parks and genuinely care about their condition, who care about the cast members and even call some cast members friends. This is why we're raising these concerns.

People often complain that the crowds at Universal have a different "feel" than the crowds at Disney. If Disney successfully alienates their passionate core customer, I wonder if the crowds will start to feel more alike.

 

[RustySpork]

Fair enough, and you're getting your wish with me since I'm not in the parks nearly as often as I used to be.

Be careful what you wish for, though... you're losing people who have loved the parks for years, who respect the parks and genuinely care about their condition, who care about the cast members and even call some cast members friends. This is why we're raising these concerns.

People often complain that the crowds at Universal have a different "feel" than the crowds at Disney. If Disney successfully alienates their passionate core customer, I wonder if the crowds will start to feel more alike.

I think Universal has been doing a really good job over the last few years to improve their image in this regard. They even hosted a free screening of the new insidious movie for passholders last night.

 

[pax_65]

I think Universal has been doing a really good job over the last few years to improve their image in this regard. They even hosted a free screening of the new insidious movie for passholders last night.

Crazy that Universal is working to build customer loyalty while Disney is... well... I don't really know what the heck Disney is doing.