The Magic is gone!

[thomas998]

Fair enough, and you're getting your wish with me since I'm not in the parks nearly as often as I used to be.

Be careful what you wish for, though... you're losing people who have loved the parks for years, who respect the parks and genuinely care about their condition, who care about the cast members and even call some cast members friends. This is why we're raising these concerns.

People often complain that the crowds at Universal have a different "feel" than the crowds at Disney. If Disney successfully alienates their passionate core customer, I wonder if the crowds will start to feel more alike.

They will. Though in part it is also because of the continued increased prices. If things are free then people don't respect them as much as when they have to pay something for them... But at a certain point when prices go way beyond what the person feels is a fair and reasonable price then they customer tends to abuse whatever they are paying for... Sort of like if I'm paying 50 more than what this meal real is worth why should I care if I make complete mess of the table... that attitude is probably already starting to hit some visitors now and it will only continue as the prices escalate with no indication of any increase in the experience the customer is paying for.

 

[RustySpork]

Crazy that Universal is working to build customer loyalty while Disney is...

They've done so much, it's amazing really.

I don't really know what the heck Disney is doing.

I don't think they do either!

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Fair enough, and you're getting your wish with me since I'm not in the parks nearly as often as I used to be.

Be careful what you wish for, though... you're losing people who have loved the parks for years, who respect the parks and genuinely care about their condition, who care about the cast members and even call some cast members friends. This is why we're raising these concerns.

People often complain that the crowds at Universal have a different "feel" than the crowds at Disney. If Disney successfully alienates their passionate core customer, I wonder if the crowds will start to feel more alike.

You're also (note the word also) losing people who will never be happy, who make a day miserable for the cast members with whom they interact ("omg, my daughter didn't get to do xyz, I want free fast passes and my room comped!") and then come here and exaggerate how bad everything was for attention.

We can't lump these groups together. The people in your example have value and presumably a well-balanced perspective and opinion. I have mentioned plenty of issues in my trip reports. I think most of us are "normal" and call it as we see it.

But the people in my example are on a downward spiral to trolldom, don't offer constructive criticism or actionable information, just vague opinions about how everything is going downhill, they know more than the people running the place, and running TDO like every other big business does is somehow wrong (as if they could keep up with the others if they didn't. Wall Street would wreck them, and then these same people would come here saying they were right and Disney is going down - just not for the reasons they predicted.)

 

[ada0801]

SaLeone, You say we are complaining, and truer words have not been written. My complaint is that I love visiting WDW, but Disney has forgotten Walt's promise in Welcoming all those that come to this place.

I am very optimistic that I will take my grand children to somewhere they will enjoy. I have already decided that the money I would have spent at Disney in the up coming year will be a trip to Kennedy Space Center. My point in my Original Post is that many of us are walking away from Disney. My concern is will Disney survive a growing dismay of WDW from people such as myself.

I never get involved with these discussions but I will today. I have been to Disney over 30 times in my life. As a child in the 80s, a teenager in the 90s, a single with expendable income in the early 2000s, and now a married mom of 2. I have seen loads of crowds and days it felt like I was in the park alone. I have been in over bearing heat and freezing cold rain. I have seen favorite rides close and new ones open. I have great and terrible experiences all the time. But I go back. I will take my grandchildren. Know why? Because for 1 week, we all put down our phone, stop working, de-stress and we all ride rides, suspende reality about pricesses and talking mice, we dream about “tomorrow”, we reminisce about the past, we laugh, we may cry, we marvel, eat mediocre food with a singing alien, we go on safaris, under water, I see a light in my children I don’t see every day, I see my parents remeber that light in me. For one week, we are the magic. If you have lost that, you have forgotten to take a deep breath, look at the loved ones you are with, and just enjoy. Every moment isn’t magical. But breath, Disney is magical. And I feel it the moment I pass the arches. Every time for 30 years. And now , my kids feel it too.

 

[pax_65]

You're also (note the word also) losing people who will never be happy, who make a day miserable for the cast members with whom they interact ("omg, my daughter didn't get to do xyz, I want free fast passes and my room comped!") and then come here and exaggerate how bad everything was for attention.

Well... that's not me. I don't know why a person like that would continue to visit the parks - or this forum for that matter. Once I get to the resort I just relax and try to have a great time. It's only afterward that I think back on the trip as a whole and compare it to previous trips - for better or worse.

As I've said before, I'm more optimistic about the parks today than I've been in the recent past because of the investment Disney is FINALLY making to the parks. I wish Disney was doing more (I think Star Wars Land will be overwhelmed, the concept could support an entire park or at least a true "land" - two attractions will not be nearly sufficient. But I digress...)

I'm not opposed to change (I've been on this forum long enough to remember the outcry when Mr. Toad's Wild Ride was closed and Pooh opened). Walt himself said "The park will never be finished..." it will always change, hopefully for the better. I loved the old Epcot but we live in an age where information is available on your phone in seconds. The parks need to offer more unique experiences. I also get the Disney is a business and if they can promote one of their own intellectual properties it makes sense to do so.

All that said, Disney built tremendous loyalty by putting the guest FIRST. And when I see Disney trying to get away with offering second-rate service I'm going to call them on it.

 

[RustySpork]

Well... that's not me.

It's probably not anyone who visits this forum, it's just another tall tale.

 

[21stamps]

Wanted to share something with you all..

My sister is going to Disney in April.. she hasn’t started planning at all, hasn’t downloaded MDE, hasn’t even logged on the website to look at parks.
She has not been there since 2001. This will be her first time as a parent.

Needless to say, I freaked out for her when she told me that she hasn’t even decided on park days and thought she couldn’t make FP selections until 30 days out.. also got worried when she told me that CRT and BOG are both a major want.

I jumped on the website to check for her.. thinking it would be hopeless.

How could this happen when it’s not 180 days in advance?

Moral of the story- don’t believe everything you hear about 180. I don’t agree with my sister’s complete laid back approach.. but this will hopefully show that it’s not impossible to get the “hottest” reservations.

 

[ford91exploder]

If you think about it, Disney has not built or really expanded any parks in years. How many more resorts? DVCs? have they built in that time frame? I think everyone that goes continuously has noticed this. The last couple years we've brought people that had never been there before. I was embarrassed when I would tell them how empty it would be only to see record sized crowds the first 2 weeks of December. I believe our time as DVC members will be coming to an end soon of something doesn't change

For us our time as DVC members has ended and when we started the DVC journey park passes came with the stay.

It seems all the negative trends are accelerating and the positive ones never get traction

 

[ford91exploder]

I don't think Disney knows what it's doing either.

TDO knows exactly what they are doing extracting billions of dollars in cash and sending it elsewhere in the Disney empire instead of reinventing a sma ll fraction of it in WDW

 

[ford91exploder]

Not to mention that "fixed" infrastructure things can't easily be flexed up and down to accommodate new capacity.

Let's say, for the sake of discussion, that New Fantasyland added exactly as much capacity as it did increased crowds. The crowds are absorbed by the new land at a 1-to-1 ratio, meaning there are more people in the park but it feels exactly as crowded as it did before. This is only true when it comes to attractions, footpaths, merchandise locations, bathrooms, and dining, since these things were all expanded along with the land. What wasn't expanded? The monorail trains. The monorail stations. The parking lot. The main entrance. Main Street, USA. The hub. The ferry boats. The buses. Even though the new crowds were "absorbed" by the new land for most of the day, they put extra strain on the park's fixed infrastructure at peak times (opening, closing, parades, and fireworks). I'm convinced this is the reason that the nighttime parade was put on hold. Main Street at parade time isn't any bigger today than it was in 2002, despite vastly larger crowds. It was a "pinch point" in the park's daily operation that couldn't be sustained.

Agree to an extent about nighttime parade being a pinch point, but dont forget that that parade cost millions to run and its cancellation immediately made WDW more profitable.

 

[SourcererMark79]

TDO knows exactly what they are doing extracting billions of dollars in cash and sending it elsewhere in the Disney empire instead of reinventing a sma ll fraction of it in WDW

I can't see how anybody could disagree with this statement, at some degree. Most companies always are looking to expand rather than improve existing entities. Most companies, not all.

 

[KDM31091]

At least to me on my last visit, it felt like there was relatively little to do in the Studios, and to some extent Epcot's Future World. Animal Kingdom has pretty much always been a half day park IMO, although at least they have now added Pandora. With so many attractions closed/being redeveloped (and Future World kept closing at 7pm, which to me is ridiculous when it's literally the front half of the park), the people all have to go somewhere.

So World Showcase was completely filled with people, and all day every day it felt like the Magic Kingdom was gridlock. With the non-MK parks being half day parks for many, the crowds just aren't being spread out enough, so this is the result.

I know Disney is working on it, but if they make Epcot, Studios and AK more compelling for full day touring, they will alleviate some stress on the Magic Kingdom.

 

[slipperalwaysfits]

I never get involved with these discussions but I will today. I have been to Disney over 30 times in my life. As a child in the 80s, a teenager in the 90s, a single with expendable income in the early 2000s, and now a married mom of 2. I have seen loads of crowds and days it felt like I was in the park alone. I have been in over bearing heat and freezing cold rain. I have seen favorite rides close and new ones open. I have great and terrible experiences all the time. But I go back. I will take my grandchildren. Know why? Because for 1 week, we all put down our phone, stop working, de-stress and we all ride rides, suspende reality about pricesses and talking mice, we dream about “tomorrow”, we reminisce about the past, we laugh, we may cry, we marvel, eat mediocre food with a singing alien, we go on safaris, under water, I see a light in my children I don’t see every day, I see my parents remeber that light in me. For one week, we are the magic. If you have lost that, you have forgotten to take a deep breath, look at the loved ones you are with, and just enjoy. Every moment isn’t magical. But breath, Disney is magical. And I feel it the moment I pass the arches. Every time for 30 years. And now , my kids feel it too.

I couldn't agree with you more, Disney is magic! Disney is about adventures and time together. My husband grew up going and it's changed a lot, but now we can make new memories! You're right, there are some moments that aren't magical, like when a cast member is super rude or a bus issue, or the fact I'm unable to pay for my trip on the Disney website (for the last three months ) but it's still special.

I think anybody who plans a trip to Disney should know it comes with crowds. A good touring plan helps one get around this but still, Disney is crowded. But so are all other theme parks, sporting events, etc. If these places weren't crowded then they wouldn't be as effective because they wouldn't be earning the money for their upkeep.

Disney, like everything in life, has to keep evolving to be relevant. With so many more people, that's why they are adding so much at Epcot, HS and Animal Kingdom.

 

[SourcererMark79]

At least to me on my last visit, it felt like there was relatively little to do in the Studios, and to some extent Epcot's Future World. Animal Kingdom has pretty much always been a half day park IMO, although at least they have now added Pandora. With so many attractions closed/being redeveloped (and Future World kept closing at 7pm, which to me is ridiculous when it's literally the front half of the park), the people all have to go somewhere.

So World Showcase was completely filled with people, and all day every day it felt like the Magic Kingdom was gridlock. With the non-MK parks being half day parks for many, the crowds just aren't being spread out enough, so this is the result.

I know Disney is working on it, but if they make Epcot, Studios and AK more compelling for full day touring, they will alleviate some stress on the Magic Kingdom.

AK is a full day park with taking in more than just the ride's and shows. Epcot and HS are lacking for sure, but HS should be better after SWGE and TSL.

 

[DisneyDoctor]

After doing a little reflection on my last two trips, I do remember something that left me a little confused. I figured I would post in here rather than create a new thread, hoping you all could comment on it.

Anyways, while on Haunted Mansion and ToT, I was pretty disappointed in the cast members. As a child, I remember them really selling the part of the creepy haunted house and elevator staff. It made the experience so much more real for me. Was that my imagination? Or did cast members in the past really act in their respective roles on those rides?

 

[Bpmorley]

After doing a little reflection on my last two trips, I do remember something that left me a little confused. I figured I would post in here rather than create a new thread, hoping you all could comment on it.

Anyways, while on Haunted Mansion and ToT, I was pretty disappointed in the cast members. As a child, I remember them really selling the part of the creepy haunted house and elevator staff. It made the experience so much more real for me. Was that my imagination? Or did cast members in the past really act in their respective roles on those rides?

I remember this to be true only about 10 years ago. I think alot has to do with the staff be overwhelmed. There is just no down time and the crowds keep getting bigger and bigger. With these bigger crowds comes more frustrated guests that feel they are not getting their moneys worth.

 

[RustySpork]

I remember this to be true only about 10 years ago. I think alot has to do with the staff be overwhelmed. There is just no down time and the crowds keep getting bigger and bigger. With these bigger crowds comes more frustrated guests that feel they are not getting their moneys worth.

Also, the additional demands of cast to manage it all at ground zero without being appropriately compensated for the additional work and hassle.

 

[John park hopper]

After doing a little reflection on my last two trips, I do remember something that left me a little confused. I figured I would post in here rather than create a new thread, hoping you all could comment on it.

Anyways, while on Haunted Mansion and ToT, I was pretty disappointed in the cast members. As a child, I remember them really selling the part of the creepy haunted house and elevator staff. It made the experience so much more real for me. Was that my imagination? Or did cast members in the past really act in their respective roles on those rides?

I too remember cast members really playing up the Haunted Mansion guess maybe a case of over worked, under staffed, and way too crowded. Disney has forgotten it's the little things that count

 

[DisneyDoctor]

I remember this to be true only about 10 years ago. I think alot has to do with the staff be overwhelmed. There is just no down time and the crowds keep getting bigger and bigger. With these bigger crowds comes more frustrated guests that feel they are not getting their moneys worth.

That's a very fair point. Definitely can't blame that on the cast members.

 

[Jedi Stitch]

Other than Run Disney and Presidents day, January still is a slower month. I still remember drinking at the Neon Cactus in the DL Hotel, and having the bartender tell us January was the best time, because everyone blew all their money for Christmas. I do remember going early November and December and the place was quiet. That was before all very special Mickey parties, Run Disney, Special something days that now make the park run near capacity all year around. There are few slower times in the year, but it truly is a hit or miss.