The Magic is gone!

[21stamps]

We have reservations for early June-3 families-3 generations. But we are all concerned about the reduced hours the MK had last summer and fall. MK closing at 9:00 in the heat of the summer is bothersome. Ticket and resort prices are up but that is not something we can't handle and understand that as part of doing business. If we don't see value in our June trip it will be our last one as a family. Massive crowds and reduced hours is not very appealing. It is a 1200 mile trip and not something we get to do as often as we like.

The value really be up to you. I hope you have a wonderful trip!

 

[Rumrunner]

The value really be up to you. I hope you have a wonderful trip!

Our attitude is we once we start the trip everything becomes positive. No complaining, just smile and adjust and make it a positive experience and it usually is. It is a long trip and a tiring trip-we usually stay 9 or 10 days. We always reevaluate after the trip but I and my two grown kids with their 6 kids are not happy about the elimination of the EP and the earlier closing hours. That is the deal breaker for us for future trips but we will see.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

My family always went during school breaks when I was a kid, so I never experienced what I remember as “low crowds” at Disney. Would have been nice!

My first visit was Christmas week, and my second visit was the millennium new year. Nothing has ever seemed super crowded compared to those.

I'm going to New Orleans in April and I haven't even looked at places to eat or things to do. I will likely look at food and entertainment options for my April trip around the February time frame, maybe even March. If it were Disney and I wanted BoG, I'd be out of luck because I'm inside the 180 day window and any reservations at decent times are long gone.

So yes, people do plan vacations in advance, but making the argument that this is the same as having to book a meal 180 days in advance at Disney is a stretch.

We get last minute dining reservations and fast passes on a regular basis.

On a recent trip, we got a California Grill reservation for 9:30 PM with wishes at 10 PM, and we booked that reservation around 7:30 PM. It was not available an hour prior.

We have walked into be our guest with a 10 minute wait for dinner twice, and that was during peak hoopla time when they first opened. No reservation at all.

We got a fast pass for frozen the night before.

We couldn’t get one for FoP at 60 days out first thing in the morning ( One of the few times we tried to get something 60 days out ) but we did get it a few hours later that afternoon.

You guys can’t just give up if you don’t get something at the first opportunity. Every once in awhile go on there and give it a shot. As it gets closer to your trip, do it more often. Do it while you’re standing in line for something else.

It’s not a big time-consuming thing, you just check the website every once in a while.

And sometimes, just show up. One night recently, the app was showing zero availability for chef art Smith’s homecoming. We went anyway, thinking we would just go to the takeout window. When we got there, we peeked inside and saw some empty tables. Asked the hostess, seated immediately.

If you want to make things work and have a little bit of flexibility, then you will make things work. If you want to be negative, then you will be negative.

 

[Rumrunner]

LOL, we stayed at the Yacht Club this last time. It was very difficult for me to walk away from the resort to go to the parks. I've been to WDW so many times that riding anything is no big deal for me. But When the grand kids are with you, my saying I'll catch it later isn't always an option. They are the ones who brought all of this on. We talked about a return trip and it was they who suggested we not go back. Imagine my surprise. I'm hearing folks in this thread talking about managing the crowds. How does a 9 yr old comprehend that. I think what the reactions that I'm seeing here are from people who may have an addiction (so to speak) of WDW. I'm the bad guy because I've spoken poorly of WDW. LMAO people need to understand this isn't about me. It's about children. Children who voiced concern and who were not enjoying WDW.

There are a variety of visitors to DW. Those that live close and can go as often as they like and the ones like me and my family-three generations of us who drive 18 to 20 hours and can only go every two years. We like the resorts but swimming in not that big a deal to our grandkids-we go for the enjoyment and experience of the parks. If the crowds are out of control and the parks are closing earlier and earlier it is a concern.
We have different expectations and wishes than people than can go as often as they like. That sometimes shapes the attitude of people posting.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I have come to the conclusion that I simply don't like the Disney Theme Park product anymore.

 

[MAGICFLOP]

First time I ever went to MK was the summer 1978 (when WDW was just MK) and it was busy and you waited for everything, but it was not too bad, because people were respectful, but now with the degradation of society/upbringing it is unmanageable, nobody has regard for anyone. Its not as noticeable when the park crowds are low, but when its busy, its extremely noticeable. Some of my favorites include, group of 70 chanting Brazilians, children bouncing off people, adults staring into phones and clogging up things and people not following simple rules. I feel sorry for those families/children that are well mannered that spend a lot money to go their and have to be subjected.

example: when my son was 7 he was playing a game in SE (at the end) and some 12yo wanted to play and did not feel like waiting his turn, so he told my son, 'your family left' so my son tore out exit trying to find us, good thing I was about 20 feet away sitting on a bench watching him and he did not get to far out the door before I caught up.

 

[Gshrout]

Exactly. There is a fundamental difference between building long-term customer loyalty (with tremendous "lifetime value" of each customer) versus just trying to maximize short-term profits.

Disney used to be all about long-term loyalty. They exceeded guest's expectations in every way possible and built a legion of dedicated fans (or fanatics) which is why most of us are here on this forum in the first place.

In recent years I've felt like Disney is trying to suck money out of my wallet at every turn, as I've watched the value of my WDW vacation decrease even as I've spent more and more. I think this is a direct result of Disney trying to maximize profits on my individual trip. This makes sense from a short-term business perspective but threatens the long-term relationship they worked so hard to build.

It's kind of unrelated, but right now there's an interesting case study happening with video game maker EA. They released their Star Wars Battlefront II video game and are essentially requiring people to pay additional fees to unlock popular characters in the game. Makes sense, right? A smart way to increase profit on the game. Except they have triggered a major backlash which will hurt the entire franchise and seriously hurt future sales of future games.

Disney loyalty is still high, Disney is still popular (as evidenced by crowds). But they should be careful...

THANK-YOU! That is precisely how I feel. Disney has indeed lost my future support. So glad I didn't buy into Old Key West when they first offered it. I pity the fools who accepted the Disney Vacation Club. Got to admit that I was slightly tempted though, but the fact that it was a time share really turned me off. My average cost for a week at WDW in the early 90s was less than $2500. Today that same week is in the neighborhood of $10,000. (We prefer the deluxe resorts and the deluxe dining plan.) I expect some enjoyment (and a little Magic) with our stay. We didn't go every year,we normally went every three to four years. Disney has turned that money away. I'm not rich, I work very hard for my income, but I believe in the American Family Vacation so a portion of my income is placed into an account to ensure that. As a family we always had a blast together at WDW. So the loyal customer (me and my family) are no longer. I've always been one to "Snort the Pixie Dust", so I admit that's why I'm here on the forum. But if "Cold Turkey" is needed then so be it.

I truly admire your insight to the business perspective into this Thread. You are able to make the point that I don't know how to. Good job and thanks.

 

[correcaminos]

THANK-YOU! That is precisely how I feel. Disney has indeed lost my future support. So glad I didn't buy into Old Key West when they first offered it. I pity the fools who accepted the Disney Vacation Club.

No pity required, thanks. We're quite happy with it and we've more than gotten our money's worth out of it so we don't feel foolish either.

 

[RustySpork]

No pity required, thanks. We're quite happy with it and we've more than gotten our money's worth out of it so we don't feel foolish either.

How have you gotten your money's worth out of it if you're still paying maintenance annually? Genuinely curious here, that's not a crack at DVC.

 

[correcaminos]

How have you gotten your money's worth out of it if you're still paying maintenance annually? Genuinely curious here, that's not a crack at DVC.

We stay in 2 bedrooms and the cost of a 2 bedroom for two nights even at a good discount would cost about the same as our yearly maint. fees. That gives something like 6-10 nights of our stay to be valued with the cost of the points.

We've done several nights in a bungalow as well - at $3k a night for rack rate I'd say we do just fine. I've done the math and while it definitely is *not* something that works for everyone, but it surely does for us. Some cannot get value of it, but it more than paid for itself after 5 years including maint. fees (I kept a spreadsheet until the value was met). Then again we bought resale 14 years ago and added a little since but so far it's been a fantastic value for us. We paid cash for each though so no interest to worry about paying off. What we paid for that would have only covered a few trips likely. We like our space and we like deluxe resorts and not a fan of values so we'd spend more than some anyway.

Thanks also to the DVC we get great deals on APs so we save a few hundred there a year for us. Our current AP was a PAP+ that would have cost $705.03 to renew for $505. That's a $200 savings per person. That can help offset maint fees right there. Our fees aren't horrible so it doesn't take much a year to come up with them. I just looked up for giggles and for the same days in one value room for our coming June trip costs a little more than what I pay in maint. fees a year. So imagine how good it feels to have a 2 bedroom for the same number of nights that allows me to do laundry for free and have a well stocked kitchen so we don't go to Disney for all of our meals. Helps with everything truly and makes it a great value for regular travelers like us

 

[RustySpork]

We stay in 2 bedrooms and the cost of a 2 bedroom for two nights even at a good discount would cost about the same as our yearly maint. fees. That gives something like 6-10 nights of our stay to be valued with the cost of the points.

We've done several nights in a bungalow as well - at $3k a night for rack rate I'd say we do just fine. I've done the math and while it definitely is *not* something that works for everyone, but it surely does for us. Some cannot get value of it, but it more than paid for itself after 5 years including maint. fees (I kept a spreadsheet until the value was met). Then again we bought resale 14 years ago and added a little since but so far it's been a fantastic value for us. We paid cash for each though so no interest to worry about paying off. What we paid for that would have only covered a few trips likely. We like our space and we like deluxe resorts and not a fan of values so we'd spend more than some anyway.

Thanks also to the DVC we get great deals on APs so we save a few hundred there a year for us. Our current AP was a PAP+ that would have cost $705.03 to renew for $505. That's a $200 savings per person. That can help offset maint fees right there. Our fees aren't horrible so it doesn't take much a year to come up with them. I just looked up for giggles and for the same days in one value room for our coming June trip costs a little more than what I pay in maint. fees a year. So imagine how good it feels to have a 2 bedroom for the same number of nights that allows me to do laundry for free and have a well stocked kitchen so we don't go to Disney for all of our meals. Helps with everything truly and makes it a great value for regular travelers like us

Cool, thanks for the info. Definitely sounds like you're getting value out of it.

 

[John park hopper]

I used this analogy once before SC looked at the number of hunting licenses sold and calculated if they raised the price revenue would increase substantially. Well, revenue went down because the marginal hunter who would buy a license every year but rarely go hunting quit buying a license. IMO WDW may be reaching that point where the marginal Disney fan may think twice about going every year. As others have posted what cost us less than $2500 in the 90's for a family of 4 now costs considerable more for just the wife and I. For us being retired and on a fixed income WDW costs become a factor. Just my 2 cents

 

[correcaminos]

Cool, thanks for the info. Definitely sounds like you're getting value out of it.

Glad to help - and I know it won't work for everyone too. If someone likes values and goes every other year it's not worth it. Moderates will be on the edge if you go yearly. Deluxe stays often really pay for themselves faster. So obviously knowing that it's not for all out there. I'm grateful for our stays and it is so nice to check out and not have to pay a dime. We do our maint. fees monthly so it's budgeted for us. We wouldn't go as often if we didn't have it.

 

[pax_65]

The value really be up to you. I hope you have a wonderful trip!

I think your attitude is exactly right - and I do the same thing once we're on property. I just try to relax and make the most of it - and it's still a very cool place with some amazing cast members, so a good time is a near certainty if you go into it with the right attitude. But for me, making the most of it means if the park is insanely busy and we've used up our FPs (and can't get any more decent ones), I'm heading back to the resort pool. I've experienced most of the attractions numerous times before, so I'm not gonna wait 90 minutes to experience Peter Pan. It's fine... we'll try to get FPs for the evening somewhere, I'll enjoy the afternoon by the pool (and I'm usually not alone, as someone else in our family will agree with me) and then we'll head back into the parks later. My day won't be ruined - I'm sure I'll have a great time.

BUT... if after the trip I think, "Damn, I spent $XXX and was only in the parks x hours a day and never got to ride x,y, and z without standing in a huge line." and then compare that to our experiences in the past (when I had the same attitude but still managed to do everything I wanted to do, even with some extra pool time), then I will conclude that my vacation value has decreased and I'll consider whether I want to spend the money again next time.

 

[pax_65]

THANK-YOU! That is precisely how I feel. Disney has indeed lost my future support. So glad I didn't buy into Old Key West when they first offered it.

You're welcome! Interestingly, we DID buy into Old Key West (AKA "The Disney Vacation Club Resort") when it was first offered. And despite all my current negativity, I believe it was the best purchase I ever made. Because at the time, WDW was awesome. And we were able to take 2-3 trips a year and we had so many magical memories. Our kids grew up with OKW as their "home away from home". We also stayed at pretty much every other DVC resort including Aulani which was amazing.

Obviously if we're only taking a trip every 3 years we're not going to use all our points. But since demand is still high (right now, anyway) we should be able to rent our points without a problem - or we might be able to use our points elsewhere. I'd go back to Aulani in a heartbeat. So I'm not ready to pull the plug just yet.

Still it increases my concern about Disney as a whole since as a DVC member I have a vested interest in the future of WDW.

 

[jrivr]

I grew up going to WDW, Sea World, Universal Studios every other year because I lived on the East Coast. I am a Disney fanatic. I have since moved out west and the last 7 years we have went to Disneyland at the same week 3 times. My logic was that we took the kids out of school, but it would be a lot less crowded and much more fun to run around etc.. First year, it was a ghost town. The second time we went it was quite a bit more crowded. This last year it was jam packed. This was seen as the "least" crowded week for Halloween. We got to do what we wanted, but we had to hussle. Plus you could not ride the big rides multiple times late at night anymore. They were still crowded. My son and I read all the Harry Potter books together this summer so I surprised him with a visit to Universal Studios Hollywood. It was on the weekend vs the days at Disneyland were during the week. It was so much less crowded even on a weekend. Plus, when I got food I felt like I got my money's worth. After the trip, I asked my son what his favorite park was. He said Universal. He still likes Disney, but enjoyed Universal a lot more. I cannot blame him, it was a much better experience. I feel like Disney is still a good vacation. Just a much different experience than it used to be. We go on vacation quite a bit, and I am probably going to pull back on the Disney trips and do other things. I am planning a huge trip back to WDW in about 5 years. I was going to go to DL in a few years to split the difference. After this last trip, we will probably not.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Exactly. There is a fundamental difference between building long-term customer loyalty (with tremendous "lifetime value" of each customer) versus just trying to maximize short-term profits.

uild.

It's kind of unrelated, but right now there's an interesting case study happening with video game maker EA. They released their Star Wars Battlefront II video game and are essentially requiring people to pay additional fees to unlock popular characters in the game. Makes sense, right? A smart way to increase profit on the game. Except they have triggered a major backlash which will hurt the entire franchise and seriously hurt future sales of future games.

Disney loyalty is still high, Disney is still popular (as evidenced by crowds). But they should be careful...

OMG you are so right. I was actually going to get this game for my sons but may change my mind because of this. feels like a bait and switch.

 

[disneygeek90]

I remember my first AP cost me $464 back in 2014. Now the price of an AP is the cost of what it was to stay at Pop Century for 8 days that year.

FL Resident AP or out of state? My FL Resident with only two weeks blocked out in Spring and Winter is around $500 with renewal.

 

[jloucks]

Face it folks, we all knew it was a matter of time before everyone else caught on to our tricks of when to go and when not to go to WDW. My preferred time was the 1st two weeks of December. But,between the Brazilians love for Disney World and Europeans disgust of Disney Paris, everyone is flocking to Orlando. Those days of low attendance have vanished.

I live on the Gulf Coast which is approximately a 7-8 hour drive to WDW. Many folks here from Alabama to Texas are avid Disney Freaks, and we all have the antenna toppers to prove it. But much of the Disney talk among us lately has been mostly negative. The consensus is that Disney has not expanded enough to handle the crowds. The planned up grades to the parks (i.e. Star Wars and Pixar) is too little and still will not ease the situation. A lot of the talk has turned into how folks are fed up with Disney and going there is a waste of money. I'm reading much of the same about Disneyland.

I'm posting this here because I know that a lot of you who visit this Forum, earn your livelihood through Disney in some way or another. If we here on the Gulf Coast stop going, how much longer will it be before the good folks from New England and the Heartland get fed up as well. Disney once looked at building a park in New England. Perhaps they should revisit the idea of a 3rd Kingdom inside the United States, or build a 5th park in Orlando.

As for myself, my last trip I payed in the neighborhood of $5000 for a 5 day trip in October. The parks were so crowded it was elbow room only much of the time, and the weather was hot. Even my grandchildren admitted that they did not enjoy the trip. When a child tells me they don't want to go back to Orlando I have to listen to them. So in essence unless Disney does something drastic, my last trip....."was my last trip".

I'm in full agreement. Our last family trip spooked my sister so bad, she opted to not return. It was so crowded it was a little scary. People got angry because of the cattle car conditions. It was no bueno. We went on a Disney Cruise instead, and that was pretty awesome.

They need to really jack up prices to control demand, otherwise it will be a mob scene. ...or stink so bad that will drive people out.

Building another park, or 7, will do nothing for limitless global demand. All there is to control is price.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

They need to really jack up prices to control demand