The Land: Update. Like it or hate it. . . here it is:

[General Grizz]

Grizz you make valid points...but maybe Disney will surprise us with an acceptable retheme job this time....I mean you can't get worse than the debacle that was the Imagination Pavilion.

*crosses fingers*

I cross my fingers - claws! - with you, sir.

 

[Djali999]

I'm honestly not disagreeing with you, Grizz. I was depressed all last night when I heard of the removal of the balloons and the fountain, just as I was depressed with the gutting of World of Motion and the deflowering of Imagination. Sunshine Season is also probably my favorite counter-service in all of WDW.

But nobody's seen this thing yet and I'm not calling anybody out. I'm just rather tired of the "no! no change! never!" attitude many people apparently have about Epcot in particular. I think they're forgetting that Disneyland had more changes, initated by Mr. Disney himself, in the first 10 years of its existence (ie, Walt's term of being preoccupied with it) than its entire history. I understand that Epcot's changes are a particuarly sore spot for many Disney fans, myself included.

I really can't disagree that this has the potential to be a disaster. But I've been impressed with a lot of the most recent alterations to the property and I haven't really much of a reason to be worried at the moment. If this were 1998, I'd really be worried...

 

[speck76]

My current views of the expected change are derived from the whole idea (not the finished, product of course), but also based on the track record of Disney in recent history in its care (or lack thereof) regarding thematic essences of the parks.

Please provide a timeframe for "recent", and with that, provide examples for each and every change over that timeframe, along with your view on how care was not provided for thematic essence.

Thanks!

 

[billybluenose]

Damn!

they're saving the circle of life?!

i could justify the bulldozing of the entire park just as long as that film was destroyed with it!

the land is everything that the general public hates about epcot: boredom in the name of education.

-billy

 

[dxwwf3]

I really can't disagree that this has the potential to be a disaster. But I've been impressed with a lot of the most recent alterations to the property and I haven't really much of a reason to be worried at the moment. If this were 1998, I'd really be worried...

I really agree with this statement. Even though I STILL don't have as much hope as you do for the Travel Agency theme, there is a possibility it could work.

I just hope they don't change the theme of Living With The Land. I guess that is my biggest worry (Even though I will miss the heck out of the Sunshine Seasons Food Fair and eating by the fountain). Don't change the theme of this ride. It was bad enough taking the song out a few years ago, so don't screw this one up. It is still an Epcot classic that packs them in (Even if Fastpass makes it seem more popular than it is).

 

[Djali999]

Agreed. Living With the Land is still one of my favorites and is really the heart of the pavillion and its' message. Since they put Fastpass on it, Disney seems to have faith in the attraction, and I think even the most jaded Disney fans have to admit that it's aged well.

 

[Trainee031589]

Travel agency???? I think I'm going to be sick........................................................................................:hurl:

 

[togasports]

The Land Pavillion is one of those that grows on you. At first you think its boring. But then you realize it is kinda a unique design from every other theme park attraction "calmness" this uniqueness is what makes Disney what it is. To turn Future worlds Last Calm Pavilion into of all things a travel agency and get rid of the awesome balloons makes me want to cry...
:brick:

 

[TinkerBell9988]

Thank goodness they are saving the Garden Grille!!!! :hammer: I was going bonkers over this for a while. . .

Travel Agency, heh? I am highly disappointed.

I am still somewhat confused as to what the bottom floor will look like after renovation, with the downsizing of the restaurant and the new Living with the Land. I guess the fountain is still going, right?

A fountain and some colorful balloons have nothing to do with a travel agency, anyway. . . .

 

[awalkinthepark]

Maybe the balloons will show up at a Disneyana auction someday....you can buy ride vehicles from Dumbo and Toad from time to time...start saving your Disney dollars and buy a house with cathedral ceilings.

 

[TP2000]

Well... On the bright side, you guys are getting Soarin' Over California.

Soarin' is an awesome attraction, and you'll all be able to see the beauty and wonder of California, and wave to Disneyland during the grand finale'.

So it's not all bad.

 

[longfamily]

On the bright side

I agree that it is great that Disney adds new attractions yearly. To Soar over california is not an evil addition to the land. It could have been a new film such as "soarin around the planet", that would have sort of made up for the disappearance of Horizons (sorta). They would not need to re-theme the land pavillion for that. It would still be educational (not that it won't be as is). Epcot has less attendence for a number of reasons, #1 being the state of the economy over the last decade. At some point, epcot had a great imaginative theme, this was not just in 1982.

 

[KevinPage]

And, for good show, Kevin, I like the Mickey gloves.

I was actually referring to your Michael Jackson white glove, that you hold your rubix cube in. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I appreciate the good spirited debate we've had and also the fact that no one else took anyone's views the 'wrong way'.

Honestly, Grizz, I can understand you "overall" trepidation about the way current management operates. I'm not foolish enough to think everything is all roses. I just think when it comes to this specific project, it "appears" they are not going to do their recent "cheapo" job. I don't mind if a pavillon or area of the park changes to suit a new ride. If it is a superior idea, then go for it.

I'm sure part of the mindset that Disney is going on is that, the average guest probably finds The Land boring and very old looking. Heck, even The Simpsons spoofed EPCOT a few years ago about this. So it's a notion they obviously want to rid themselves of.

I feel they are keeping the message of the pavillon or at the very least "in the same vein". The pavillon may not have the original design feel when EPCOT first opened, but that isn't neccesarily a bad thing, IMNSHO.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Well i've read both sides of the argument, and based on my own sightings and experiences, I for one, would like to see these changes.

On my last visit to Epcot, the two areas that stood out the most for bad reasons, where WofL and the Land. Why? Both where pratically empty. Both felt old fashioned, both had a feeling of 'this looked good 20 years ago'.

I know my last visit was in September, but we visited the Land in the middle of the afternoon. THere where a handful of people in the food court, the Circle of Life was 1/8 full, and we strolled through the queue for Living with the Land with barely a sight of somebody else. Even the cast member on our boat sounded like he was bored. You compare that to any of the other pavillions we visited that afternoon.

The Land needs Soarin, Soarin does not need the Land. Therefore I think it's a good move to retheme the pavillion around this e-ticket, rather then the other way around. One thing I can't believe that anyone hasn't picked up on, is that maybe it won't be known as the Land for much longer. Then the theme won't need to fit in with 'The Land' after all.

 

[General Grizz]

I'd just like to clarify that the Land may seem empty at points, but at most of the dining times, midday, the area is packed. Living with the Land has roughly 15,000 visitors a day, which is just about the same as Mission Space and Test Track. (This is just to show that attendance is not a problem).

 

[DMC-12]

the re-working of the land sounds good to me....

now, they just need to put a plan in motion to gut WoL and breathe some new life into that place.

 

[packwingfn]

Is it confirmed that the Land will close exactly on january 2nd?

Im going to disney world from january 3rd to the 8th and would love to see the land pavillion, one last time before it changes.

If it does close though on that date, do you think they will at least open WoL, if they have 2 pavillions closed in EPCOT, i will be one very mad person.

 

[Supermatt70]

Is it confirmed that the Land will close exactly on january 2nd?

Im going to disney world from january 3rd to the 8th and would love to see the land pavillion, one last time before it changes.

If it does close though on that date, do you think they will at least open WoL, if they have 2 pavillions closed in EPCOT, i will be one very mad person.

The Land will close from 01/02/05 to 04/06/05.

 

[speck76]

Here is my stand: If Disney can replace the balloons and fountain with something more symbolic of the Land's meaning (symbiosis, celebration of mother earth and our interaction with it, or even as far as food production) and adding to these overall essences, then Disney should go for it.

If they can replace the Circle of Life, the Sunshine Season Food Fair, and Food Rocks with attractions that directly add to the meaning to the Land (without having to twist its central concepts) and increases guest pleasure, Disney should by all means go for it if that change is better.

I wrote the Calls to Arm as a PREEMPTIVE post and declaration of sentiment of those who support the Land's meaning. This is because we've seen Epcot become disjointed in random attractions and concepts (i.e. where is the essence of "motion" in Test Track and true care for creativity in "Journey into Your Imagination?")

I have not seen the official plans for the pavilion, but these were a series of posts that promoted the preservation of the Land's concepts (which includes the necessary peaceful area). This was *not* an attempt to keep the Land exactly as it is. It is a call to preventing a degrading change to the Land, which the Travel Agency *seems* to present. (But by NO MEANS do I want this project's budget cut. I want it done right).

Some notes from the book Walt Disney's Epcot Center publish in 1982 prior to the park opening:

-Anticipating that [Living with the Land] will whet the appetite, the designers planned the ride to discharge its hungry passengers at the Farmer's Market (SSFF now)

Wow....pre-Eisner exit through retail

-The architects have provided the feeling of boundless space, while the Farmers Market area has an authentic atmosphere of bustling activity where much is going on.

Now, if this area is "peaceful".....it does not look like that was the original plan, I can not relate "peaceful" to "bustling activity"

-[Kitchen Kabaret] was developed because Kraft felt that somewhere in the vast pavilion the story of nutrition should be told.

So, the whole nutrition aspect of The Land was sponsor-driven...hmmm

 

[KevinPage]

No one will face the simple fact that The Land's "message" is NOT that good or "special" to begin with.

Grizz keeps talking about not ruining the message of the pavillon, when in actuality, it's message WAS boring years ago and even more disjointed today.

If WDI has a better idea for the pavillon as a whole, why such a bruha-ha ?

The Land is NOT something untouchable, like Splash Mountain, ToT or SSE.