The Land: Update. Like it or hate it. . . here it is:

[ruca]

I love the land the way that it has always been. I think the balloons are pretty and peaceful. Listen to the Land is one of my favorite rides and I am glad that they are keeping it.

That said, this is Disney, and while some of the latest changes have not been the best ( Journey Into Your Imagination), I think the change has real possibilities. Innoventions is way better than the Commincores and Test Track is really fun. I want to wait and see the finished product before I make any decision because it may end up being fantastic.

 

[Djali999]

I just have to point out something here: a lot of people are referring to Soarin' as a "thrill" ride. Having been on the version over at DCA, am I the only one who finds there to be nothing 'thrilling' about it? Even the take off is calm and actually pretty subtle. The attraction itself is gentle, serene and... dare I say it... inspirational?

I always thought it would work fantastically well over at Epcot. It's the kind of attraction that inspires simple wonder, and is a first-rate classic as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SirNim]

Gosh darn it...


Hypocrisy at its quintessence.


That Dubois quote is really powerful stuff. It represents the achievement of the pavilion, the power of the pavilion, the purpose of the pavilion.

There's a word out there called assimilation. Soarin' had the opportunity to assimilate into The Land, the purpose of The Land, but from the looks of it, things are going to be happening the other way around.

Yes, The Land, any pavilion, can always use a refreshing rejuvenation. Inject new life, a new vigor to the place! But don't get rid of the spirit of the pavilion in the process! The travel agency theme has the potential to do just that.

And yes, nothing is better than going on vacation while you're on vacation! (this does not contradict my appreciation for World Showcase)

 

[speck76]

....although the Land may be popular (with more visitors than Mission Space or Test Track, I might add).....

Grizz, you seem to have become really good at only telling part of the story, or leaving out details that do not support your case.

Yes, The Land may get more visitors than TT or MS, but "what" draws people to The Land, is it the 2 restaurants, the boat ride, the movie?

I think having two food outlets in 1 pavilion is what has kept up the popularity of Living with the Land and The Circle of Life. The problem is, the pavilion is almost too busy. (I have always failed to see your vision of The Land being quiet and relaxing, it always feels like a madhouse to me).

Pulling the food court out of The Land, or shrinking it, is going to reduce a lot of visitors to the pavilion. I think it is fair to say many people eat there, but never go on the attractions. Soarin' should bring in TT/MS type numbers back into the pavilion.

Can you imagine what the foot traffic in the pavilion would be like if they left it as is and added Soarin'?.....talk about no longer quiet and relaxing!

 

[Hakunamatata]

Grizz, you seem to have become really good at only telling part of the story, or leaving out details that do not support your case.

Yes, The Land may get more visitors than TT or MS, but "what" draws people to The Land, is it the 2 restaurants, the boat ride, the movie?

I think having two food outlets in 1 pavilion is what has kept up the popularity of Living with the Land and The Circle of Life. The problem is, the pavilion is almost too busy. (I have always failed to see your vision of The Land being quiet and relaxing, it always feels like a madhouse to me).

Pulling the food court out of The Land, or shrinking it, is going to reduce a lot of visitors to the pavilion. I think it is fair to say many people eat there, but never go on the attractions. Soarin' should bring in TT/MS type numbers back into the pavilion.


Can you imagine what the foot traffic in the pavilion would be like if they left it as is and added Soarin'?.....talk about no longer quiet and relaxing!

Yes, there are times that The Land is not quiet and relaxing.....lunch and dinner, and maybe other times during peak days, but outside of dining hours, in my experience, the pavillion has been on the quiet and relaxing side.

 

[grandmath]

I just have to point out something here: a lot of people are referring to Soarin' as a "thrill" ride. Having been on the version over at DCA, am I the only one who finds there to be nothing 'thrilling' about it? Even the take off is calm and actually pretty subtle. The attraction itself is gentle, serene and... dare I say it... inspirational?

I always thought it would work fantastically well over at Epcot. It's the kind of attraction that inspires simple wonder, and is a first-rate classic as far as I'm concerned.

I second you on that .

 

[Main Street USA]

What is so "precious" about The Land? I hear all this talk about destroying this ambience of the pavillon. But what is so "special" that they are removing? Currently it's boring, noisey and crowded with all those tables.

They are keeping the Garden Grill and the 2 attractions currently there. Is a water fountain, balloons and food court the pinnacle of Disney entertainment these days? Give me an attraction any day of the week and tie it in with that.

Soarin' is not some nickel and dime attraction. People make it like some kind of travesty to redo The Land to fit with it. The Land is NOT Cinderella's Castle (ie- something untouchable). Yeah, if they rethemed the castle to fit into Stitch's Great Escape, I'd have major problems with it, but this is not the current case. Soarin' is a BIG deal. I'm glad they are not rubbling the actual Land pavillion itself, like they did for MS and that there will be 3 attractions in a pavillon (as opposed to 1 in TT).

This is a win-win situation all around for guests. The only people opposed to such are people stuck in 1982 that believe that Michael Jackson and the Rubix cube are STILL relevant. :lol: :lol:

P.S. - Grizz, take off your white glove :hurl:

I'll keep my answer a LOT shorter than Grizz's.

Understand that my post was only my opinion, as are everyone's.

I grew up from day one with the Land originals, and quite simply, that makes them "precious" to me.

 

[KevinPage]

I just have to point out something here: a lot of people are referring to Soarin' as a "thrill" ride. Having been on the version over at DCA, am I the only one who finds there to be nothing 'thrilling' about it? Even the take off is calm and actually pretty subtle. The attraction itself is gentle, serene and... dare I say it... inspirational?I always thought it would work fantastically well over at Epcot. It's the kind of attraction that inspires simple wonder, and is a first-rate classic as far as I'm concerned.

I couldn't say it better myself. It is an E ticket, no doubt, but not all E tickets are "thrill rides". The music is wonderul and really adds an incredible ambience. Having the ride tied into a pavillon setting, as oppsoed to sitting by its lonesone (over in DCA) will help add to the feel of the whole area and making the attraction itself even better!

 

[KevinPage]

I'll keep my answer a LOT shorter than Grizz's.

Understand that my post was only my opinion, as are everyone's.

I grew up from day one with the Land originals, and quite simply, that makes them "precious" to me.

Setimentality plays a HUGE part in anyone's opinion of course.

No problems here, as I enjoyed spirited good natured debates. :wave:

 

[wdwmagic]

I am a very big fan of the current Land pavilion, I am one of those who visits some aspect of the pavilion on every trip to Epcot. Having said all that, I am very excited to see that side of Epcot getting a major new attraction, and so I'm really looking forward to seeing the changes that will be made. I have every faith in WDI making a good job of it.

Remember that a lot of the rumored changes are just that - rumors. I read a lot of posts painting a very bleak future for The Land, which I really cant see happening. The addition of a major ETicket attraction, in my opinion, can only increase the popularity of the pavilion, and bring people to that side of the park. Not only is it going to boost The Land attendance, I think Epcot itself will get a boost as a direct result of this attraction. Bring on May 2005 and another boost for Epcot and WDW!

 

[Shaman]

I'll withold my opinion about this retheming issue until I actually see the results....but in general there isn't much we can take from just hearing and saying that the new theme will center around this Travel Agency idea....for one...it could be an eco-tourist travel agency...maybe they'll even call it ECO-TOURS...:lookaroun...No? Maybe?

There are many things which can spring forth from "Travel Agency"...I understand peoples skepticism...after all the powers that be at Disney aren't exactly willing to pay for big projects and rather work on cheap ideas...but I think this Travel Agency CAN work with The Land if the right amount of $$ is put up for the project...just my opinion....

 

[Mickeyrulz]

Grizz,

You gotta get off the "symbionic relationship" nonsense. You and 10 other internet maniacs are the only ones obsessed with balloons and food courts in here. :lol:

You "spin" this t...ravel agency theme like it's the incarnation of evil. :fork: I'm glad they plan on "tying" everything into a central theme, so the pavillon doesn't feel disjointed. Different modes of transporation allow you to "experience" different terrains of "The Land", doesn't sound that far fetched to me.

The Land is boring in it's current state and potentially getting NEW AA's for Living With the Land, that's a good sign as well, it's needs some refreshing.

Whenever they get rid of "Circle of Life" the transformation will be complete.

I'm prepared for the legion of Grizz worshippers to go nuts on me. :lol: :lol:

I'm not going nuts but I think that classifying it as boring just because it isn't NEW is wrong.

 

[WDWTestDummy]

hmm... it does need a rehad.. im going this weekend.. i shall take construction pics of the land if there is any going on...

 

[NemoRocks78]

Living with the Land.... A CRUISE LINE THEME? You have to be kidding me. :fork:

 

[General Grizz]

I'd like to agree with the point that "in may not be all that bad." That's certainly true, and we are speculating a lot off of some small (but reliable) bits of information. My current views of the expected change are derived from the whole idea (not the finished, product of course), but also based on the track record of Disney in recent history in its care (or lack thereof) regarding thematic essences of the parks. I regret to see the glass as half-empty, but based on the other changes I have seen the Disney company do in recent history, I have a set of expectations. There isn't a "clean slate;" the same "Gemini" decision makers are still doing this.

There were a few great posts up here - and welcome, Epcot82guy - that really bring this out. Specifically, Kevin Page, when I refer to my unfounded "PEACE, SYMBIOSIS, INTEGRITY" it holds to the entire Disney story of today. That is, rehabs and policies (whether in film, Casting, theme park decisions) are now nearly exclusively based on short-term financial decisions rather than long term care for what a successful product is.

The potential "plasticization" - and that is, the attempt to produce art without an honest attempt to create a true and relevant meaning - of the Land may result with the Travel Agency overlay. You can see this in Frontierland or Main Street (wih a pin store taking over a mercantile shop) or at the Journey into Imagination at Epcot. Honestly, if Splash Mountain were in development today, I truly believe it would either get killed or stripped of its use of Audio-Animatronics figures. But the point is, when I refer to "integrity," I refer to the art of Imagineering. (As another great thread in General Discussion has pointed art, Imagineering is perhaps the greatest form of fine art). Heart from the imagination and spirit of the pavilion - not the pocketbook (as a Travel Agency theme would be based off a decision to keep Soarin about flying over California; I doubt it was anything initially pushed to begin with) is what this encompasses. Symbiosis, Kevin, is what the Land stands for. But I'll stop here, because Epcot82guy's post in page 4 - http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=45884&page=4 - sums it up.

This has nothing to do with living in 1982 (when the Land looked hideous, at least in my opinion). This has to do with caring about Disney - not just the Land, not just Epcot - and its direction in the future. Will the care for the DISNEY message of family entertainment, originality, progress, and heart have any say in the pocketbooks of executives? Although the Travel Agency idea may seem "cool," is it really that honest when it comes down to the meaning and structure of the Land? Will it be anything that great to cast a long-term postive effect on Epcot's visitors and truly enhance the bulk behind the pavilion's essence? Or would it weaken (as "fake") the realities on which Epcot rests upon?

I'd like to say that I, too, am excited to experience Soarin'. I'd still much rather visit Disney's California Adventure if I wanted to see the California version - especially if a brand new "enhanced" Soarin' could fit directly in the Land and enhance its purpose. SirNim said, Soarin' could have still been brought in tastefully, and although this is assuming the worst, I truly hope I am wrong here. So I apologize for this, CTXRover, djali. If anything, this discussion may bring out new thought about Epcot as a whole and the meanings of its individual pavilions.

And, for good show, Kevin, I like the Mickey gloves.

 

[MartyMouse]

Wow, EPCOT Center … er … Epcot has always been my favorite park at Disney – the way it embraced all the cultures of the world and all the rich history they bring while at the same time reaching for the future (or at least the 21st century). As the new millennium rolled over EPCOT started to show her age and it was becoming clear that something needed to be done but what they have been doing is knocking EPCOT so far off track that it may never recover. The concepts of iconic buildings (or pavilions) representing man hand his struggles with the future was brilliant then and it still is but no one at Disney seems to see that. I could go into a rant about the gutting of World of Motion and the demolition of Horizons or the dumbing down of the Universe of Energy or the Nemo additions to the Living Seas, but these are all symptoms of a greater problem, Disney has no vision for EPCOT. Where once EPCOT was the mot organized well laid out theme park, it’s starting to become the hodgepodge that Disney/MGM has become.

I personally love the Land, but also feel that it could use an update, but to kill the theme just to slap in an e-ticket ride – shame. Disney needs to stick to the concepts of EPCOT not try and reinvent them. Let’s hope Disney will come around and do the right thing by EPCOT and the Land.

 

[Scooter]

I,for one, am looking forward to the changes in The Land Pavillion.

Bring them on! I find changes to be new and exciting.
The Balloons...I have tons of pictures and videos of them.
The fountain...there's a million of them in Disney World.

I think some people on this board just like to get people stirred up.
I'm not gonna get upset until AFTER I see and experiance the changes.
These may end up being some great changes.

Perhaps you'ld like some cheese with your whine. :lol:

 

[zone15int]

i love the land pavillion. please DONT take the baked potato off the menu. dont make me mad.

 

[Mickeyrulz]

I am mad because Disney keeps scrapping classic and nostalgalic things like the Land's peaceful aura for thrills.

WE DO NOT, believe it or not, need Soarin'.

Kevin-- World Showcase is peaceful mostly because it is more of a model then anything. Think about it; there's around 3 rides in it and a few shops and shows. I disagree with rides in World Showcase. But anyway, it's peaceful by nature.

Future World IMO is not peaceful enough. With Wonders of Life looking to be on the road to the trashcan, none of the rest of the Futrue World area is very serene. Think about it again; Innoventions is normally a mass of crowds; Universe of Energy has nothing other than one ride so there's nowehere to relax; Mission space and Test Track certainly are bustling; and Living Seas is fairly crowded (especially with the new Nemo work). So Actually The Land is the only serene area, soon to be made into a bustling, jostling, bumping, unorganized crowd mess --

ALL THIS FOR A CLONE!!

 

[Shaman]

I think they if they really had wanted to...they could've gone for giving a Soarin' attraction its own pavilion...then its theme would in no way affect The Land...but hey the imagineers have to work with what they are given...and I think they'll do the very best under the circumstances...

Grizz you make valid points...but maybe Disney will surprise us with an acceptable retheme job this time....I mean you can't get worse than the debacle that was the Imagination Pavilion rehab(s).

*crosses fingers*