General Grizz said:
Kevin, you fail to recognize Epcot's need for "BORING" places.
I am not against boring places, just whole pavillons that are totally boring. Adding Soarin' to The Land will still have areas that are boring to it (Circle of Life & Living With the Land, namely), plus it has yet to be determined how 'crowded' the floor will be with the removal of the fountain and tables. Maybe the new food court/restuarant will be more peaceful.
General Grizz said:
Why aren't you upset at Disney's latest attempt at a garden area over where 20,000 Leagues was? Don't you want a ride? Isn't a garden area "boring" and worthless?
The area sat dormant, so they are finally doing something to it. This will help the overall theming of Fantasyland, so for NOW it is a positive. If they keep it a garden forever and never put an attraction there, YES I would be upset. But current "rumor" has it that they have plans but nothing definite, so I don't have any reason to get all excited/upset.
You have to take each park/area or attraction in contrast with it's whole. Epcot has World Showcase which is relaxing. I myself don't need alot of "relaxing" areas in Future World. I want more rides and things to do. Future World is so spread out, I find it peaceful enough walking around outside. If I need to sit down, I'll go to Electric Umbrella or Innoventions.
General Grizz said:
You take the hype of Test Track and Mission Space and complement it with a peaceful, serene area -- with a hint of guest courtesy. As you just read a first impression of the Land above, it is the simple pleasure of the pavilion - which can NOT be captured in a queue line - to sit down to serene music, a fountain, and have an ice cream. (Wonders of Life is the only other "peaceful, open" area, but that's closed now).
I'm all for a nice balance of things, hence that is what Disney does better than anyone else. I'm not expecting Six Flags craziness nor would I want that. But Epcot has had toooooo many "peaceful", "boring" or "dead" areas as of late. So when I hear of a potential new attraction and re-theme from a boring theme, I'm happy. It could turn out brillant, crappy, or somewhere in between. I'm not about to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge yet though, I'll take a positive and excited approach and hope for the best in the meantime.
General Grizz said:
But regardless of whether or not you are a fan of the Travel Agency (which I still think is a "plasticization" and an attempt to inauthenticize the beauty of the Land), this is just an example of how Disney doesn't care to maintain the overall spirit and meaning of a pavilion.
So Disney is deliberately out to "stick it" to The Land on purpose? Did The Land ______ on someone's Wheaties or something? This is total conspiracy theory craziness. The Land is a building, not a living organism that someone has a vendetta against.
General Grizz said:
So would Disney be willing to CONTINUE to drop attractions on Epcot that do not necessarily contribute a value?
We disagree on this point. I don't see how it doesn't add any value to Epcot or The Land. You are flying over landscapes for crying out loud. If Patrick Warburton talked about the environmental impacts of things or what crops are grown in this area, would that make it better?
General Grizz said:
Wouldn't it be considerate to mold Soarin' - showing EFFORT and DEDICATION on Disney's part - to the Land?
I'm not of the belief that the spirit of the pavillon, as you feel, is being destroyed. I don't see how this is still not going to be about "the land". The 2 attractions that exist there now are still going to be there, The Garden Grill is still going to be there. Fountains, balloons and that food court (which was nice) didn't make me think of Mother Nature one bit.
The WAY in which the message is presented will be altered, but not the meaning.
General Grizz said:
But what makes Epcot special - at the top slot of the Consumer Reports value chart - is its mix between education, inspiration, fun, new technology, and entertainment.
And it was lacking in the new tech and entertainment department, hence why we are getting MORE rides. I would have preferred MS & TT be part of a pavillon with other things to do, but this is what SOARIN' is going to be, PART of a pavillon with other attractions and such. Just because they decided to tailor the pavillon to a ride, doesn't make it evil. MAYBE, just MAYBE it was a superior way to present the message of The Land. Just because this was an original Epcot idea, doesn't make it superior to any newer idea.
General Grizz said:
nd let's be clear that most of us aren't against a change of design or improvement. If there is a better idea for the balloons, the fountain, the use of the areas of the Land that BOTH enhance the pavilion's HONESTY (yes, honesty!) and ENTERTAINMENT, go for it. Soarin' would have been an excellent example if Disney had decided to mold this attraction to its pavilion's essence.
Disney feels this is an improvement and is willing to spend the $$$ to do it. I'll side with the people who design these things and are spending their own $$$ on it. You have no actual proof that this will turn out bad. It could, but I prefer to look at the glass half full, given that all the information that has been leaked sounds good IMHO
General Grizz said:
And I hate to be so negative about this, because a lot of other changes (i.e. Diamond Horseshoe and Imagination) bring about so many complaints.
I agree, dumb moves that didn't work.
General Grizz said:
Disney can benefit from a new entertaining experience if they show consideration for a pavilion's entire essence and deliver its true themes in new, exciting ways.
Which is exactly what I feel they are doing in this case. Delivering the theme of the land in a NEW way, via a Travel Agency. We shall see if it lives up to the hype or flops.
The main beef I have with your argeument is that you ASSUME it's going to stink and make rather illogical statements (to me) like PEACE, SYMBIOSIS, INTEGRITY, when they hold no weight in your arguement.
Can you please take off the white glove ? :lol: :hurl: :lol: :hurl:
And I expect a new avatar ripping me up shortly.
![Big Grin :D :D](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)