The Grizz Will Roar!!

[HennieBogan1966]

Ya know Grizz, I think the problem is that people are thinking that we want all of the classics kept untouched, while making now advancements in technology, new rides, etc.

NOTHING could be further from the truth people. Okay, one more time for those of you who are not paying attention to this point. What we are talking about is the mgmt/leadership style currently in place at Disney. The parks/resorts, conditions of rides and parks, lack of vision with respect to new rides and new ride technology. Lack of vision with respect to the running of the other arms of the company, ABC, ESPN, with its horrible made for TV stuff, etc.etc. It's about the mgmt. of the company.

 

[General Grizz]

Ya know Grizz, I think the problem is that people are thinking that we want all of the classics kept untouched, while making now advancements in technology, new rides, etc.

NOTHING could be further from the truth people. Okay, one more time for those of you who are not paying attention to this point. What we are talking about is the mgmt/leadership style currently in place at Disney. The parks/resorts, conditions of rides and parks, lack of vision with respect to new rides and new ride technology. Lack of vision with respect to the running of the other arms of the company, ABC, ESPN, with its horrible made for TV stuff, etc.etc. It's about the mgmt. of the company.

And I second that! I've been mistaken for the same thing in my entire past here at the site.

 

[GoofyFan1]

Carousel of Progress should be first priority. No more seasonal opening and obviously no permanent closure. If they don't want to run it all day, fine. Maybe they can have it go from like 10-5 everyday? At least everyone would get an opportunity to see it.

Seems like I've been reading this thread all day and not knowing what to say.

I have to agree with Maerj. I'm a firm believer in the idea that if it's in your park, it's open, period. Now there are safety exceptions, but if I paid my money, I should be able to ride the ride, or see the show. If COP is not up to standards, fix it. If COP is up to standards, open it.

It should be an easy fix: Put money into the things that made WDW great. Also, it wouldn't hurt to find some of the "magic" for new ventures.

Just my opinion.

 

[Scooter]

Seems like I've been reading this thread all day and not knowing what to say.

I have to agree with Maerj. I'm a firm believer in the idea that if it's in your park, it's open, period. Now there are safety exceptions, but if I paid my money, I should be able to ride the ride, or see the show. If COP is not up to standards, fix it. If COP is up to standards, open it.

It should be an easy fix: Put money into the things that made WDW great. Also, it wouldn't hurt to find some of the "magic" for new ventures.

Just my opinion.

Thank you...we value YOUR opinion here.

But you forgot one other option...if COP doesn't draw any viewers anymore..then close it...close it and let the imagineers create a new magical attraction. It's what Walt would want...after all, there's was no one more dedicated to the ideas of Progress than Walt himself.

 

[HennieBogan1966]

I believe that part of the problem with rides such as COP is that it doesn't get the ad time that does other rides. (i.e. Mission Space). What I am saying is that their should be more effort to advertise lots of rides, not just the latest and greatest. And it should get more advertisement in WDW itself.

There's something to be said for subliminal advertising. When it comes to the DVC's Disney seems to spare no expense to advertising. Why not advertise your various rides the same way throughout the parks? And if it isn't open, you can't ride it. So, as far as that goes, it needs to be open more often.

Look at it like this: Companies cut payroll as a means to leveling expenses/versus sales numbers. And employees will say, "Hey, we can't get the sales if we don't have the salespeople to help customers." Just ask any number of cms on these threads and they'll say the same thing with regard to payroll throughout the company. Now, compare that with saying, well COP doesn't get the attendance that it used to. What year did COP last stay open all year? And what kind of #'s did it do compared to "other" rides?

Again, if it's not open full time, then how in the world can you give it a fair shake with regard to attendance? And who determines what the magic # is for saying, well it isn't worth keeping open. Face it, these rides are long since paid for, so the only overhead is the electricity to run them and the cms required to host them. So, show me where the great loss is? And if it were to continue to grow with the times as far as each set is concerned, then how is that bad?

 

[General Grizz]

I believe that part of the problem with rides such as COP is that it doesn't get the ad time that does other rides. (i.e. Mission Space).

Ah, that's very true. There are two more direct factors which hit away at Carousel of Progress.

(1) The Tomorrowland Transit Authority offers NO description! If it played inspiring music with Walt talking about it, or a brief description, people on the TTA could understand what the show is about (as it should be).

(2) The attraction is in a corner of Tomorrowland. Space Mountain in one direction, Stitch across. However, if banners were put up around it, or even its own unique area music or a more "glorified" building, it would seem more attractive. Further - people usually get into Carousel of Progress's queue in the following way: (a) there is no line because the most recent show filled up all guests waiting. (b) guests start to line up. (c) once guests see that people are loading into it, that it is an attraction, more guests come over to see it. (d) It loads the 200+ capacity theatre (6 of which in total!), thus leaving the queue area empty again.

When guests are looking to enter into the attraction and no one is lined up for it (or so it appears!), it is because a show loads every five minutes (versus a 20 minute lineup for a stage show).

And BESIDES all of this, Carousel of Progress has had an extremely decent attendance record! Attendance could only flourish more if the attraction were updated and given the necessary "spruces" of appeal and showmanship.

 

[Scooter]

I believe that part of the problem with rides such as COP is that it doesn't get the ad time that does other rides. (i.e. Mission Space). What I am saying is that their should be more effort to advertise lots of rides, not just the latest and greatest. And it should get more advertisement in WDW itself.

There's something to be said for subliminal advertising. When it comes to the DVC's Disney seems to spare no expense to advertising. Why not advertise your various rides the same way throughout the parks? And if it isn't open, you can't ride it. So, as far as that goes, it needs to be open more often.

Look at it like this: Companies cut payroll as a means to leveling expenses/versus sales numbers. And employees will say, "Hey, we can't get the sales if we don't have the salespeople to help customers." Just ask any number of cms on these threads and they'll say the same thing with regard to payroll throughout the company. Now, compare that with saying, well COP doesn't get the attendance that it used to. What year did COP last stay open all year? And what kind of #'s did it do compared to "other" rides?

Again, if it's not open full time, then how in the world can you give it a fair shake with regard to attendance? And who determines what the magic # is for saying, well it isn't worth keeping open. Face it, these rides are long since paid for, so the only overhead is the electricity to run them and the cms required to host them. So, show me where the great loss is? And if it were to continue to grow with the times as far as each set is concerned, then how is that bad?

You have made some great points here. :sohappy:

Perhaps if Disney advertised COP as a "Disney Classic" it would boost attendance. Maybe they need to make an attraction poster for it like they do with other attractions/rides. I'm all for keeping COP open, but not if people just walk past it and ignore it. Then it's kinda of sad and pathetic.

I think too, rather than close it, as a last resort, they could make it into a walk through musem where people could walk from set to set. They could make it interactive with buttons to push to hear the man talking about progress or even to hear the dog bark. Kind of like The One Man's Dream attraction.
ANYTHING to keep it from getting scraped. That should never happen.

 

[GoofyFan1]

Thank you...we value YOUR opinion here.

But you forgot one other option...if COP doesn't draw any viewers anymore..then close it...close it and let the imagineers create a new magical attraction. It's what Walt would want...after all, there's was no one more dedicated to the ideas of Progress than Walt himself.

Thanks. You're right I did forget that option. I have mentioned this option before, in threads similar to this one. Business is business. Until WDW decides whether the attraction is viable, it should be open. If WDW does decide that COP should close, then I would hope that the imagineers would come up with something amazing, not just another Dumbo-Magic Carpets-Astro Blaster clone.

 

[disnyfan89]

If COP is attracting as many people as you say it is Grizz then why does mgmt what to get rid of it. What makes you think mgmt wants to close it for good. I would also like to point out that sending letters to mgmt about how they are destroying the Walt Disney co. and it is time for them to steep down is not going to do a thing. When is the last time you listened to someone who didn't want you around?

 

[General Grizz]

If COP is attracting as many people as you say it is Grizz then why does mgmt what to get rid of it.

Unfortunately, management is doing everything it can to reduce the amount of Audio-Animatronics to make things cheaper to run.

For a while, Disney wanted to shut down Carousel of Progress, the theatre, and the Skyway building for a giant gift shop and one small attraction.

I kid you not. The focus is wrong.

What makes you think mgmt wants to close it for good.

This is rumor. Disney's been wanting to close it, and planned to do so in 2001 (until they met some protest, perhaps?? ) . . . and it's rumored by Cast Members that when Stitch opens, CoP goes down ("because Tomorrowland has enough capacity").

 

[Disneyland1970]

First off Grizz let me say....AMEN!

Second.. Hello fellow Puppets! ( That was just rude.....anyway he apologized)

I keep hearing(or reading) that the bottom line is what counts... Well if a ride has a following, isn't it cheaper to rehab and re-imagineer than tear down and start from scratch?? I agree start to promote the classics? I feel that Eisner has pimped out the Disney name for every availaible $$ he can, no matter what the cost or the outcome. I have a theory that deep down Mike resents Walt for his following, so many years after his death.. He is ever so slowly erasing the history that is Walt Disney. I feel he will fight tooth and nail to stay on with Disney until DL's 50th. Then once the initial Hoopla is over he will pack up in the middle of the night and jump ship. He just wants to go down in history riding on Walts coat tails!! His Ego is scary IMHO!!

Can't wait for the news in the Future Grizz!!

 

[Figment1986]

I only got through page 6 of 9 before posting however...
I believe that Disney has been going to the dark side of theme and amusment parks. The cloning of attractions is terrible. Making a clone of a ride that is cross country should not happen. (DCA should never have happened in the way it did) I believe that making a clone of an attraction that is accross seas though is alright. Not many people have enough time and money to fly to paris and tokyo and WDW to rider those rides. However i believe that the rides should reamin unique to the park.

Sorin should have a unique movie in this case too..

Another topic u mentioned was wasted space:
I think that disney could have a huge advancement with it's attractions if they utalize all the space they have. Imageworks should be moved upstairs and made unique... downstairs could be a shope that sells "unique" murchandice to Imagination...

The Attraction Mission Space should have had more room for it's queue. The queue should have had a better feel of a international traning center. and less of props relating to a movie, (Mission To Mars i think)

Finally,
Attractions that have closed down without a replacement should have had a replacement. This is Disney, Why can't they find a sponsor for a attraction. They went to Compaq and had them, (then HP) sponsor a new attraction, why couldn't they do that with other sponsorless attractions. Wonders of Life could get a new health company and redo the pavilion.... SE could a get a sponsor that would put money into the ride to get it up to date and referbished to be a great classic, instead of replacing it with a movie??

Before i leave,
I believe that C.O.P. should remain aty the park, and be open. It was such a bad decision to have it closed during 100 Y.O.M. and closing Walt's only attraction in WDW would be terrible. Walt wasnted this attraction to be open forever, And even move it to WDW when the time was right.

(P.S. Grizz... Im in for whatever you need... and Splash Mt. Was a clone, Dl had it first... Unless i missed something reading your first post...)

 

[Kwit35]

Thank you...we value YOUR opinion here.

But you forgot one other option...if COP doesn't draw any viewers anymore..then close it...close it and let the imagineers create a new magical attraction. It's what Walt would want...after all, there's was no one more dedicated to the ideas of Progress than Walt himself.

Ahhh, but they won't build a 'new magical attraction'. They will put in a cookie cutter show or a meet and greet or a souviner shop. :hammer:

 

[Maerj]

The Attraction Mission Space should have had more room for it's queue. The queue should have had a better feel of a international traning center. and less of props relating to a movie, (Mission To Mars i think)

The vehicle I think you are referring to is the actual vehicle used on the moon, there is a little sign there saying it's on loan from the Smithsonian.


Just a side note on COP... I think that the reason people think it is unpopular is that it takes in a lot of people. Remember there are multiple sections for people to sit in and it constantly rotates, making for shorter lines.

 

[dxwwf3]

Just a side note on COP... I think that the reason people think it is unpopular is that it takes in a lot of people. Remember there are multiple sections for people to sit in and it constantly rotates, making for shorter lines.

I'm honestly not trying to beat a dead horse here, but that was the same problem that Alien Encounter faced. And Stitch's Great Escape will face that problem in about 5 years. Alot of guests only see things that have lines, because they think those are the attractions that are good. Those two show areas hold extremely large amounts of people. Like you said CoP really gets alot of people in there. And like SGE, there are always new groups being ushered in all the time. So it takes a whole lot of people to build a queue up at SGE and CoP. And yes this does fool some people into thinking that ALOT popularity has slipped, when it probably has more to do with capacity.

 

[Figment1986]

The vehicle I think you are referring to is the actual vehicle used on the moon, there is a little sign there saying it's on loan from the Smithsonian.

I remember that vehicle, but i am mentioning the spaceship used from the movie. (maby a movie prop) and the gravity wheel is the same setup from the movie...

 

[General Grizz]

Yes... CoP capacity is 240 people per theater. There are 6 theatres.

Meaning, if the theatres were only half full, there would be 720 in the building per cycle! Yet, a lot of reports have put CoP at 3/4 full, if not full to the max, on many days since last October.

 

[TinkerBell9988]

Grizz,

I have read this whole thread, and I agree with your movement 110%! Please keep the rest of us informed of your ideas. Maybe I can start a one-person protest while I'm here in WDW! (I will probably do it, too... ) I'll try to ask some questions this week and see what I can find out.

So if this rumor is true, the CoP will close in a few months?! :brick: Oh no, we have GOT to do something, and I am up for anything. I am also glad to see so many people with (almost) the same opinion(s) as Grizz, I truly believe there is hope to save this classic Walt Disney attraction.

"There are no strings on me!" :animwink:

 

[celestia]

well said grizz!

 

[GoofyFan1]

Being up late, having all of my work done for soccer camp, I was reading my Birnbaums (2004) and found no mention of COP at all. :veryconfu

If Birnbaums is the "official" guide of WDW why don't they have anything in there about one of WDW's attractions? Maybe, as HennieBogan1966 mentioned before, maybe Disney should start a Back to the Classics ad compaign, or at the very least make sure the official guide includes all of the park's attractions.

By the way, I did find COP in the Passporter.