The General's Call to Arms: Epcot's future -- SAVE THE EARTH!

[Pixie Duster]

Grizz, I love ya, but I do not agree. Sorry....

 

[General Grizz]

Condemning the attraction? No.

Realizing the problems and suggesting ways to make it more beneficial? Yup.

 

[dxwwf3]

Condemning the attraction? No.

Realzing the problems and suggesting ways to make it more beneficial? Yup.

I agree. Especially in this specific situation.

 

[Pixie Duster]

Condemning the attraction? No.

Realzing the problems and suggesting ways to make it more beneficial? Yup.

My suggestion, the message of Mother Nature does not come off clear enough. The current presentation is old, outdated, and to most boring. WDI needs to do what they are supposed to do best and be creative. They need to create a way to show the beauty of mother nature in a new, relevant way without "disturbing the peace".

 

[General Grizz]

My suggestion, the message of Mother Nature does not come off clear enough. The current presentation is old, outdated, and to most boring. WDI needs to do what they are supposed to do best and be creative. They need to create a way to show the beauty of mother nature in a new, relevant way without "disturbing the peace".

Just a question, is your "boring" referring to the setup of the Land? (Food court, colors, music, etc.?)

 

[ClemsonTigger]

What Soarin' did you ride?

You have clearly not ridden Soarin' if you do not consider it a thrill ride. You are suspended 50 feet in the air with only a seatbelt as your vehicle swoops from side to side and up and down. While it may not be the most intense thrill ride at Disney, I assure you it is very thrilling and, therefore, a thrill ride, with a purpose of thrilling guests, which it certainly does. Case in point, Disneyland.com puts it in the "thrills" category Soarin' For me, it is more thrilling than Test Track...certainly more fun.

Jeez, I must have been on a different Soarin' on my various visits to DCA. Yes, one of the three gliders is lifted pretty high, but the sensation is no different for that one as compared to the one 8 feet off the ground. Also, swoops and side to side? really! The majority of the movement is caused by movement on the screen and air blown on you. It is exciting, but thrill ride, I don't think so. Disney probably catagorized it as such 'cause they have precious few "thrill rides" in DCA.

 

[Chefjason1974]

I can't say i'd miss the food court. This idea has been outdated for many years. I read an article in Food & Wine Last month that described WDW "old way" in regards to Preparing food. Basically a huge comissary with mindless drones pumping out tasteless garbage food & delivering it to all of the outlets. This is what the Food Court reminds me of. Also i don't like the dim no sunlight look of the Food court. you do make a good point though the last peaceful pavillion will be destroyed by soarin. I think thats the point!

 

[SmithGett]

wow!

wow! you seem to have all of disneys park troubles figured out! great job! im sure your ideas could be easily implemented, screw numbers and figures, screw the business side of things! bravo! why dont you send that to disney and see if they will hire you, you seem to be able to figure it all out!

now im off to whine and complain some more about a park i should love for what it is, and not complain about what its not!

:fork:

 

[ToTBellHop]

Jeez, I must have been on a different Soarin' on my various visits to DCA. Yes, one of the three gliders is lifted pretty high, but the sensation is no different for that one as compared to the one 8 feet off the ground. Also, swoops and side to side? really! The majority of the movement is caused by movement on the screen and air blown on you. It is exciting, but thrill ride, I don't think so. Disney probably catagorized it as such 'cause they have precious few "thrill rides" in DCA.

maybe it was broken when you rode or something, cuz I was definitely very high up and there was quite a bit of motion in my hang glider. You are the first person I have ever heard who does not find it thrilling.

Regardless, WDI is going to do a great job with this...it is not particularly suffering from budget problems.

 

[J.E.Smith]

Agreed. Getting rid of a peaceful area to eat in favor of just another queue area?

Come on, there has to be a way to do this rather than getting rid of the peaceful enviroment. Plan things out better before going ahead with them, guys,

 

[Wckd Queen]

I have to agree with you, Grizz. The Land is a respite away from the hustle and bustle and heat outside the pavilion. To lose such a nice peaceful area would be a shame. Its so nice to go in there, take a leisurely boat ride and then sit and have a soft drink or a snack is just so relaxing. Would be a real shame to lose it

 

[careship]

That right there is enough for Disney not to destroy that fountain.

I know it doesn't mean much and isn't a great reason, but I did the same thing when I was their age. I could sit there all day and people watch. In fact, I have been known to hang out there for a couple of hours and do just that. Believe it or not, I do find that fun and part of the allure of the Land.

 

[General Grizz]

I have to agree with you, Grizz. The Land is a respite away from the hustle and bustle and heat outside the pavilion. To lose such a nice peaceful area would be a shame. Its so nice to go in there, take a leisurely boat ride and then sit and have a soft drink or a snack is just so relaxing. Would be a real shame to lose it

You hit the skillet right on the spot, Lisa.

Looks like the majority of the 39 pollers agree with this point.

EDIT: Careship - it's not "not much of a reason;" this is your WDW history. I hope you and your children can have many more experiences, but we all know this will never be forgotten whether or not the fountain stays. Trivial, it may seem, but it's symbolic for you and many, many more.

 

[cloudboy]

America doesn't WANT to be educated a theme park...at least not anymore. That may speak to our moral fiber, but it's the truth.

That is in complete oposition to any trends today. Eco tourism is one of the fastest growing areas of tourism. People are spending more and more time in adventure and cultural pursuits than in entertainment. Look at TV ratings alone - sit coms are dying as people are spending far more time on channels such as HGTV, the Discovery Channels, and the History Channel. We are becoming a more curious and knowledge based culture. Ever wonder why people talk about Disney like it was childish or fake? How 'bout thinks that are badly done are described as Mickey Mouse?

I am worried that Disney management is completely missing this, and is setting the parks up for disaster. And it's not just about a food court - heck I havn't been in the land for three years now. It's that thjis is a big trend, and it has to stop.

The matter is that the parks are focusing on a narrower and narrower market. So guess what - other people STOP COMING! And if you base your success solely upon what that ever narrower group wants, you are just going to thin it down more and more. THAT's where Disney is heading wrong. They have become nothing more than an attraction for families with young children or thrill seekers looking for something different from their local siz flags. There is a whole, huge, and quite affluent population out there. Disney is struggling (they still havn't hit full occupancy in the hotels). They can't risk driving away more guests.

If you don't tell people what you want, you won't get it. Just taking whatever is force fed to you doesn't do anybody any good - the company is not getting the proper return on their efforts and you are having to settle for second best.

EPCOT in particular, and Disney in general, is right now facing a crisis in lacking a clear focus. They are going after quick market share and short term results, and they setting themselves up for takepover attempts, shareholder revolts, and ultimately a dwindiling company.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I guess the fact that attendance is up ~10% since Mission: SPACE opened doesn't count? (it went up a whopping 4% last year after M:S being open 3½ months)

 

[ToTBellHop]

Before anyone questions it, originally posted by MonorailGreen:

Walt Disney World seems to have, once again, taken 4 of the 5 top spots in US theme park attendance this year!! Epcot saw a 4 percent boost while the Disney-MGM Studios saw a 2 percent decrease. Magic Kingdom and Disney's Animal Kingdom saw no significant change =) These comparing 2002 to 2003...

Here are the top 10 parks:
1. Magic Kingdom- 14.04 Million
2. Disneyland Park- 12.72 Million
3. Epcot- 8.62 Million
4. Disney-MGM Studios- 7.87 Million
5. Disney's Animal Kingdom- 7.31 Million
6. Universal Studios Florida- 6.85 Million
7. Universal's Islands of Adventure- 6.07 Million
8. Disney's California Adventure- 5.31 Million
9. SeaWorld Orlando- 5.20 Million
10. Universal Studios Hollywood- 4.58 Million

A simple comparison between wdw parks shows what great effect Mission: SPACE had after only 3½ months of announced opening. If that pattern continued, we could see as much a a 15% increase this year, but I rounded down to 10%, or 9.5 million guests.

 

[cloudboy]

Considering how slow Epcot and he resto f the parks had been, and looking at their growth previous to 9/11, actually I think it is a bit of a letdown. That growth is also due in part to more people traveling, and the fact that there is proliferation of cheeap airfares due to LCCs. Which I think kind of points out that it is only a short term gain.

What kind of impact has Test Track had on attendence? I think that is a better guage since it has been around longer.

 

[General Grizz]

Before anyone questions it, originally posted by MonorailGreen:

Walt Disney World seems to have, once again, taken 4 of the 5 top spots in US theme park attendance this year!! Epcot saw a 4 percent boost while the Disney-MGM Studios saw a 2 percent decrease. Magic Kingdom and Disney's Animal Kingdom saw no significant change =) These comparing 2002 to 2003...

Here are the top 10 parks:
1. Magic Kingdom- 14.04 Million
2. Disneyland Park- 12.72 Million
3. Epcot- 8.62 Million
4. Disney-MGM Studios- 7.87 Million
5. Disney's Animal Kingdom- 7.31 Million
6. Universal Studios Florida- 6.85 Million
7. Universal's Islands of Adventure- 6.07 Million
8. Disney's California Adventure- 5.31 Million
9. SeaWorld Orlando- 5.20 Million
10. Universal Studios Hollywood- 4.58 Million

A simple comparison between wdw parks shows what great effect Mission: SPACE had after only 3½ months of announced opening. If that pattern continued, we could see as much a a 15% increase this year, but I rounded down to 10%, or 9.5 million guests.

And that's great news. However, our concerns exist even with the hope that Soarin' can add a similar effect of attendance.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Considering how slow Epcot and he resto f the parks had been, and looking at their growth previous to 9/11, actually I think it is a bit of a letdown. That growth is also due in part to more people traveling, and the fact that there is proliferation of cheeap airfares due to LCCs. Which I think kind of points out that it is only a short term gain.

What kind of impact has Test Track had on attendence? I think that is a better guage since it has been around longer.

People are not traveling to WDW just to go to Epcot. The fact that the other 3 theme parks did NOT see a similar increase tells us that more people are going to Epcot during their trips, spending more time at this park. This is thanks to Mission: SPACE, not cheaper travel. Any effects of cheaper travel would be felt at the other three parks, which they have not been.

 

[prberk]

Sometimes you need to let things go...

This is a Pavilion...in a theme park...that will in no way affect the outcome of your lives. Sometimes we need to let these little things go and realize that we have a lot more things to worry about.

Well, I agree that we do not need get too bent out of shape over certain things, but it is right to put out your opinion... and in this case, my opion comes entirely because, at 38 years old I recognize the value that a few simple attractions at Walt Disney World DID affect the outcome of my life. I did not know it at the time, but The Carousel of Progress, the monorail, the Hall of Presidents, The Walt Disney Story, and later just the vision of EPCOT (and, in Epcot, "Living with the Land") all had a HUGE impact on me as a child and young adult.

Walt Disney World as a whole taught me that to dream a little higher. It also taught me about balance. Walt's description that the fun of the Magic Kingdom would subsidize and ultimately give birth to EPCOT was informative to me, even as his vision was adjusted.

It is always important to do your best, and to consider what your investments say.

Many poeple enjoy the contrast that Epcot brings to the fast-paced world of the rest of WDW's theme parks. It offers balance.

And, I believe, it also adds value and prestige to the whole Disney experience, which I think is important. It is for this reason that I say that it IS important to consider what changes mean as you plan them.

I am all for Soarin' as I understand it, but not as a California theme. It should be themed to The Land. And the queue should not get rid of the only interesting and reasonable places to eat in Future World. I am not against change (and I do not think that Griz is, either), but it should enhance the very rich them of The Land.

And if you do not think that education and entertainment are still popular, check out the popularity of The Discovery Channel and Animal Planet. I have always said that EPCOT would do well to either have a weekly program on those channels, or put one like theirs (only recorded live from the park) on ABC or Disney Channel.... Walt showed them how to use TV to educate while slowly building excitement for his park. No reason why we could not do that today...