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The General's Call to Arms: Epcot's future -- SAVE THE EARTH!
- Thread starter General Grizz
- Start date
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Any ride that SPINS gets people sick. I have SEEN people puke outside of these rides. But you know what? I'm not going to waste my time with you idiots. The fact of the matter is Disney agrees with ME, they are building thrill rides and will continue to build thrill rides. Don't like it? Tough. Suck it up. I was trying to give you all information about Soarin' but you just want to whine and complain about your fantasies about how Disney is ruining Epcot. Cry me a river while you sit outside the Land and I'm riding Soarin' and Mission: SPACE. Or, better yet, go to Universal and see what magic and tranquility you find there. Or, go experience the tranquility and wonderful rides of Cypress Gardens Adventure Park. If you want tranquility, go camping. If you think Mission: SPACE won't be popular in 4 years, fine. We shall see. If you aren't finding enough to eat at Epcot, try out the Magic Kingdom. They would be more than happy to feed you to your heart's content. If you think the loss of a gift shop in the Land is a travesty, wait until you see Soarin's gift shop. If you think Soarin' does not fit into Epcot, wait till you ride. If you are going to miss the fountain in the Land, go watch the Fountain of Nations.Bill said:
MKCP 1985
Well-Known Member
I am far removed from 13, but I was ready to take a barf bag home as a "Free Disney Souvenier" on my last trip. Alas, plain white bag - no logo. No fun - I left it in place for the truly needy. E-bay sales will suffer as there is nothing distinctive about the M:S barf bags.
Is there a generation gap thing going on in here? "Ride once and have an aching back and headache all day" vs. "Ride over and over again?"
I'm a pretty typically reactive park guest, I think. I rank M:S at the top of the "to do" list at EPCOT, and have been one time each on my last two visits to EPCOT. I left feeling good about the trip and would certainly have gone again except for long lines and other things to do before the early park close. No headaches or sore backs. I was a little disappointed after the first ride because I'd heard about how awesome it would be, how you would experience weightlessness and so forth, and it wasn't all that to me. With lower expectations when I went back six months later, I greatly enjoyed it for what it is.
Is there a generation gap thing going on in here? "Ride once and have an aching back and headache all day" vs. "Ride over and over again?"
I'm a pretty typically reactive park guest, I think. I rank M:S at the top of the "to do" list at EPCOT, and have been one time each on my last two visits to EPCOT. I left feeling good about the trip and would certainly have gone again except for long lines and other things to do before the early park close. No headaches or sore backs. I was a little disappointed after the first ride because I'd heard about how awesome it would be, how you would experience weightlessness and so forth, and it wasn't all that to me. With lower expectations when I went back six months later, I greatly enjoyed it for what it is.
dxwwf3
Well-Known Member
I don't like this quick reply button. I go away for 2 hours and there are about 5 pages of messages I have to read. Just kidding of course.
About Mission Space, I have never seen anyone get sick. Most people do like it (as long as they haven't heard the hype) and the capacity on this thing must be huge because during my trip in early June M:S usually had no longer than a 15 minute wait when Test Track had 1 hour+ waits. Actually in my 50+ rides on M:S the longest I've EVER seen the Standby line was 30 minutes. Disney really designed a ride to eat the queue up.
Back on topic. Soarin will be a great addition to Epcot and will really balance out some of the crowds to the other side of FW. I just don't see the need to put alot of money into redoing the Land when you've got the Living Seas right next door that could easily become the most popular non thrill attraction in WDW, if they got the money to do the pavilion right. A Nemo SeaCab ride could be HUGE. That's just my opinion though. Sure I'm against losing the Food Fair and the fountain, but I can get over those pretty easily. My big complaint is I just think the money should be used next door.
About Mission Space, I have never seen anyone get sick. Most people do like it (as long as they haven't heard the hype) and the capacity on this thing must be huge because during my trip in early June M:S usually had no longer than a 15 minute wait when Test Track had 1 hour+ waits. Actually in my 50+ rides on M:S the longest I've EVER seen the Standby line was 30 minutes. Disney really designed a ride to eat the queue up.
Back on topic. Soarin will be a great addition to Epcot and will really balance out some of the crowds to the other side of FW. I just don't see the need to put alot of money into redoing the Land when you've got the Living Seas right next door that could easily become the most popular non thrill attraction in WDW, if they got the money to do the pavilion right. A Nemo SeaCab ride could be HUGE. That's just my opinion though. Sure I'm against losing the Food Fair and the fountain, but I can get over those pretty easily. My big complaint is I just think the money should be used next door.
dxwwf3 said:
. . . or at Wonders of Life (a place where change is NEEDED - unlike the Land).
I believe WOL is 100,000 square feet.
Actually, I'll be outside the park. Because the way it is going Epcot is becoming less and less a special place as those of us who can actually look around and enjoy the details and experience get shoved away so thrill junkies like you can have yet another adrenalyn rush since the last ride isn't giving it enough anymore. Man this bothers me! Just because people can't take the time to appreciate details or place or have an attention span long enough to see that there is a whole lot more of a story and environemnt than a 5 minute film doesn't mean that you have to take that stuff away from the rest of us. Since apparently camping is to slow for you and everything that isn't a ride is dull and for us old fogeys, perhaps you can build a nice little old fogie park for us, since you you know what people want.
Sorry to rant on you, but it seems like there is this group that thinks those of us who like to use our brains once in a while are somehow not qualified to come to Disney and use their park. How about them putting the kind of money they spend on Soarin or Mission:Space into something we can enjoy instead of tearing down something enjoyable and putting up some thrill in its place?
careship
New Member
Whew that took awhile....
Ok I go away and it takes forever to read again. I am not going to quote specifics because, Hey I'm blonde and just can't get that complicated.
As for Soarin' my problem is that instead of it fitting into the Land's scheme, they are making Land into Soarin and the previous tenants of the Land are expedable to them. I love etaing in the Land. Contrary to popular belief, when we are getting warm and the boys are getting tired we do find peace and tranquility there rather then goin all the way back to the hotel no matter what I paid for it.
As for Mission:Space...my son pukes after he rides it. My other son and I just keep going on and on in it and it isn't a generational thing I am 35 (or so) and he's almost 13. My problem with MS is they really could have added the educational portion to the pavillion without anyone knowing it and still keeping with Walt's vision of EPCOT.
Journey into Imagination.....I want the original back personally, but my boys love this version and hated the second version.
There are things about EPCOT that should remain. The jumping fountains my kids and I spend forever playing with. The lights in the sidewalks keep them busy for hours. The fountain in the Land that they love to sit by and run their hands along the side of it. Living Seas needs the cabs back I don't care what they show just start them up.
Many people forget the little things that are fun, educational, inspiring and wonderous in Epcot because they are being overshadowed by bigger bolder things. Bring in the wild rides, I'm all for that, but remember the ultimate vision and don't forget to inspire me, inform me and make me want to come back home to Disney and to Epcot.
By the way, I drive 20 hours to come there as often as I can per year. SOmetimes I can only make it once, sometimes 3 times, but when I do get there, I go to what I love and then the new things are second fiddle to me and my family. You don't have to be a local to appreciate Walt's original vision and to know that some changes aren't the greatest.
Ok I go away and it takes forever to read again. I am not going to quote specifics because, Hey I'm blonde and just can't get that complicated.
As for Soarin' my problem is that instead of it fitting into the Land's scheme, they are making Land into Soarin and the previous tenants of the Land are expedable to them. I love etaing in the Land. Contrary to popular belief, when we are getting warm and the boys are getting tired we do find peace and tranquility there rather then goin all the way back to the hotel no matter what I paid for it.
As for Mission:Space...my son pukes after he rides it. My other son and I just keep going on and on in it and it isn't a generational thing I am 35 (or so) and he's almost 13. My problem with MS is they really could have added the educational portion to the pavillion without anyone knowing it and still keeping with Walt's vision of EPCOT.
Journey into Imagination.....I want the original back personally, but my boys love this version and hated the second version.
There are things about EPCOT that should remain. The jumping fountains my kids and I spend forever playing with. The lights in the sidewalks keep them busy for hours. The fountain in the Land that they love to sit by and run their hands along the side of it. Living Seas needs the cabs back I don't care what they show just start them up.
Many people forget the little things that are fun, educational, inspiring and wonderous in Epcot because they are being overshadowed by bigger bolder things. Bring in the wild rides, I'm all for that, but remember the ultimate vision and don't forget to inspire me, inform me and make me want to come back home to Disney and to Epcot.
By the way, I drive 20 hours to come there as often as I can per year. SOmetimes I can only make it once, sometimes 3 times, but when I do get there, I go to what I love and then the new things are second fiddle to me and my family. You don't have to be a local to appreciate Walt's original vision and to know that some changes aren't the greatest.
KevinPage
Well-Known Member
Bill,
Just cause you know people who won't ride again, doesn't mean that is the general consensus. Show me some facts and figures to back it up, will ya.
And I'm now officially convinced that Grizz somehow funded the original building of The Land, has a financial interest in this, OR hid a body in there that he doesn't want anyone to discover.
And we should all chip in to buy one of the balloons for him when they go up for sale on EBAY. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Just cause you know people who won't ride again, doesn't mean that is the general consensus. Show me some facts and figures to back it up, will ya.
And I'm now officially convinced that Grizz somehow funded the original building of The Land, has a financial interest in this, OR hid a body in there that he doesn't want anyone to discover.
And we should all chip in to buy one of the balloons for him when they go up for sale on EBAY. :lol: :lol: :lol:
careship said:
That right there is enough for Disney not to destroy that fountain.
Fievel
RunDisney Addict
This whole thread is nuts....
...yet I'm compelled to throw sanity into this.
Grizz...I know where you're coming from. But even you have to face the facts. Disney is a business and must act as such. They cannot just focus on educating first and entertaining second. They'd be out of business in epcot in under 10 years. Then we'd have nothing to enjoy.
You call the Land the last remaining piece of serenity. I'll tell you right now it has nothing to do with the themeing, but rather the fact that NOBODY is in there 75 percent of the time. Any research analyst would see that and look at it as unsuccessful. Yes, I'll miss the food fair, but that's something that could easily be relocated.
Soarin' isn't even completed yet, and you're already condeming the ride. This is the same hypocricy that is going on in the SGE threads.
America doesn't WANT to be educated a theme park...at least not anymore. That may speak to our moral fiber, but it's the truth. Disney recognizes this fact and has to react accordingly or lose business to the other theme parks in town. Why do you think Universal IOA had huge gate numbers? Because they had something that Disney didn't....the ability to entertain.
As adults, we learn to appreciate walking around World Showcase and having that peaceful feeling of just enjoying the sites. However, one of the largest brackets in our society with expendable income is the 20-35 age group. They're in FL to have a break from the pressures of school, their jobs, etc. They do not want to be force-fed an education on every ride.
I'm with Gary and Lee on this. And we are NOT in the minority. I assure you. Just because this board may be with you, doesn't mean the general public is. Boards such as these are filled with the extreme attitudes that can (at times) make it look like the whole world hates something, when, in fact, only 30 people hate something, and they're all here talking in a thread on it. Meanwhile, those of us who would just as soon see a bulldozer drive through the front door don't respond because we simply don't care. Disney has done well, and from our perspective, improved Epcot over the years. Do I miss Horizons? Sure. Do I want it back? No. Mission Space is a much better value for my money than a sleep inducer (BTW - if you want that - ride UoE - puts me to sleep every time i go on it).
You have to learn that all the letters in and petitions and phone calls and illegal protesting in the park will do nothing for your cause. Disney has and must continue to act as a business, and they will do whatever is in their best interest in the long term (i.e. - getting people in the gates).
In conclusion, I'm really surprised that you're complaining about the land....if you were a TRUE disney purist, you'd be complaining that Walt's EPCOT city wasn't built and that a theme park is just a mockery of that. Think that's extreme? Well, that's how many of us see these "call to arms".
Walt is dead. His own imagineers said that a lot of concepts died with him. Not because they weren't good in concept, but because they weren't smart in a practical business sense. It's time to take the foundation that he built and take it to the next level.
You MUST adjust to the American public, or they will force you to learn harsh lessons.
...yet I'm compelled to throw sanity into this.
Grizz...I know where you're coming from. But even you have to face the facts. Disney is a business and must act as such. They cannot just focus on educating first and entertaining second. They'd be out of business in epcot in under 10 years. Then we'd have nothing to enjoy.
You call the Land the last remaining piece of serenity. I'll tell you right now it has nothing to do with the themeing, but rather the fact that NOBODY is in there 75 percent of the time. Any research analyst would see that and look at it as unsuccessful. Yes, I'll miss the food fair, but that's something that could easily be relocated.
Soarin' isn't even completed yet, and you're already condeming the ride. This is the same hypocricy that is going on in the SGE threads.
America doesn't WANT to be educated a theme park...at least not anymore. That may speak to our moral fiber, but it's the truth. Disney recognizes this fact and has to react accordingly or lose business to the other theme parks in town. Why do you think Universal IOA had huge gate numbers? Because they had something that Disney didn't....the ability to entertain.
As adults, we learn to appreciate walking around World Showcase and having that peaceful feeling of just enjoying the sites. However, one of the largest brackets in our society with expendable income is the 20-35 age group. They're in FL to have a break from the pressures of school, their jobs, etc. They do not want to be force-fed an education on every ride.
I'm with Gary and Lee on this. And we are NOT in the minority. I assure you. Just because this board may be with you, doesn't mean the general public is. Boards such as these are filled with the extreme attitudes that can (at times) make it look like the whole world hates something, when, in fact, only 30 people hate something, and they're all here talking in a thread on it. Meanwhile, those of us who would just as soon see a bulldozer drive through the front door don't respond because we simply don't care. Disney has done well, and from our perspective, improved Epcot over the years. Do I miss Horizons? Sure. Do I want it back? No. Mission Space is a much better value for my money than a sleep inducer (BTW - if you want that - ride UoE - puts me to sleep every time i go on it).
You have to learn that all the letters in and petitions and phone calls and illegal protesting in the park will do nothing for your cause. Disney has and must continue to act as a business, and they will do whatever is in their best interest in the long term (i.e. - getting people in the gates).
In conclusion, I'm really surprised that you're complaining about the land....if you were a TRUE disney purist, you'd be complaining that Walt's EPCOT city wasn't built and that a theme park is just a mockery of that. Think that's extreme? Well, that's how many of us see these "call to arms".
Walt is dead. His own imagineers said that a lot of concepts died with him. Not because they weren't good in concept, but because they weren't smart in a practical business sense. It's time to take the foundation that he built and take it to the next level.
You MUST adjust to the American public, or they will force you to learn harsh lessons.
dxwwf3
Well-Known Member
Fievel said:
First things first, it's spelled hypocrisy not hypocricy. And I do not know how many times I have to try to explain this, but since that comment was directed towards me, I'll try ONE MORE TIME. I do not want to see SGE because I simply choose not to. I'm not angry and I'm not bitter anymore. I just don't want to see it period. It's no different from a motion sickness prone person not wanting to ride M:S. Again for the 100th time, I'm not angry or bitter. IT'S JUST A PERSONAL CHOICE AND IT IS NOT NEARLY AS BIG OF A DEAL AS SOME PEOPLE ARE MAKING IT OUT TO BE. Goodness :lol:
Anyways back on topic, I don't think most of the people on here are condeming Soarin. Acutally I'd have to say that 99% of us are REALLY looking forward to it. We just don't see the need to change around the whole pavilion for it. While I'm not as avid as Grizz is on this subject, I think he does make good points. And I also think that those in favor of the change make good points too. I think the biggest thing is that most of us didn't see these changes coming. If rumors had come out when Soarin was announced that these changes might occur, it might have been a little bit different. But I think we were all thinking on how Soarin would be fit into The Land and not the other way around.
Fievel
RunDisney Addict
dxwwf3 said:
Thank you Dr. Dictionary.
I'm just sick of the "traditionalists" not even giving things a shot before they condemn them. Ever think that the end result is going to be better to 99.9% of the general public? We have the .1% in this thread....in the end Disney still comes out as the winner, even though this message board will never acknowledge that.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Here, here, Fievel! I agree! And all y'all are lucky to be getting these details about changes in The Land, now. Lee and I didn't have to share them with you, and I was quite cautious to divulge any information because I thought something like this might occur. Be happy you are getting a 10-month period to accept that these changes are coming. You are some of the first to hear of these changes (certainly the first guests).
Pioneer Hall
Well-Known Member
Sometimes you need to let things go...
This is a Pavilion...in a theme park...that will in no way affect the outcome of your lives. Sometimes we need to let these little things go and realize that we have a lot more things to worry about.
This is a Pavilion...in a theme park...that will in no way affect the outcome of your lives. Sometimes we need to let these little things go and realize that we have a lot more things to worry about.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Like the GREs! This studying is killing me!DisneyInsider said:
dxwwf3
Well-Known Member
Fievel said:
You're welcome.
And I tried to tell you my point of view in a nice way in one of those SGE threads, but you never replied. And I tried to PM you, but your mailbox was full. I just assumed you didn't care enough to type back.
And you're 100% right that the end result of SGE is going to be best for Disney. And that SGE is going to be a wonderful attraction, and they will sell tons of Stitch merchandise. And I am saying that Disney is coming out the winner. Like I've said before I'm over all the Stitch bashing. That was a phase that was over months ago. I just don't want to see SGE. That could change in a few years, but as of know I wouldn't be able to give SGE a fair chance so it is not fair for me to go in there next year.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
If you don't want to ride SGE, who cares? It's your choice. I don't particularly like CoP, so I don't go out of my way to ride it, but for those of you who do...more power to ya. Luckily, wdw is large enough that even if we don't want to ride every ride there, we have enough to do...unlike Hong Kong Disneyland, where the choice will be water ride in Adventureland, Space Mountain, or Fantasyland dark rides...or gigantic fast food restaurants 