The General's Call to Arms: Epcot's future -- SAVE THE EARTH!

[Scooter]

There are only 3 things I know for sure in this world that are going to happen.

1) I'm going to die some day.
2) I have to pay taxes.
3) Things are constantly going to change

There's not much I can do about the 1st 2 things.
I can eat healthy foods and excercise and I might live a little longer...but I'm still going to die some day.
Taxes...well there's no getting around those things is there?

CHANGE...well this has always been a challenging concept for me.

I figure there are two ways you can handle things changing.
1) You can fight it (which is our natural reaction to change) or you can embrace it.
Either way we can't stop it..we just have to either go with the flow or fight it like a demon.

Soaring is coming...and with it comes some changes in The Land Pavillion.
I see that Food Rocks is already gone. I remember how much I laughed when I first saw food Rocks and how the people around laughed too.
I'm sad that it's gone...and yet at the same time I'm excited about whats coming and how my reaction will be to the New Changes in that area.

Now I hear The Sunshine Food Fair may be gutted. That's REALLY sad.
I remember many a time where my wife and I grabbed a Fast pass to ride The Listen To The Land ride and ate a sandwhich or a bowl of ice cream while waiting for our fast pass ride times to come up. It was so relaxing.

I don't have alot of control over the closing of The Sunshine Food fair. I suppose I could fight it kicking and screaming until the very end. I could write The Disney people a thousand emails with a thousand reasons why I don't want it closed...or I can remember the good times I have had there and look forward to the excitement of the new Soaring ride.

It was certainly peaceful and serene in there. But I can find that same serenity in the Garden in The United Kingdom in World Showcase, by the fountain at Future World, in the Paths and Back alleys at Animal Kingdom and Disney/MGM, and even on the bridge to Frontierland in The Magic Kingdom.

I'm not going to get upset if things change at Disney World. I played that game for too many years and all it got me was time wasted while I fought the changes that were inevitable and out of my control. I suppose I could try and become a Disney Imagineer or Manager so maybe THEN I might have some imput as to what changes and what doesn't change at Disney World...but then again, maybe I won't. Maybe I'll just find the GOOD things that Disney World has to offer me and look forward to NEW things Disney Has to offer me with excitement and great anticipation...after all, isn't that much better than fighting and kicking and screaming?

Grizz... you need quit your job and go to work for Disney. You have some great ideas and thoughts. You are obviously very passionate about your Love for all things Disney and it's need to have balance and to maintain that Disney "Magic" ...but unless you are an Imagineer or on Disneys Upper Management Staff, I'm afraid you're just spitting into the wind my friend.

You can fight the changes if you want to...but you can't stop them.
Myself...I'm going to go to Walt Disney World like I have been for the last 20 years and I'm going to embrace the new things that are there and keep the great memories of my past trips tucked away in my head and in my heart.

 

[General Grizz]

Well, I'd say to blindly embrace a tight queue area with a giant Space wheel would be something, but I'd prefer the memories of walking through diamond hallways with the family, shouting and echoing their way out. This is also better than seeing my parents and other relatives wait outside till those of us riding the new attraction are finished riding.

I mean, that's why we have message boards. To express our opinions, based on our fondest memories. Or on what would find to be just be plain stupid (long-term or short-term) in management's decision making.

But on the subject of the Soarin' queue, I don't think Epcot has shown a great track record in the quality of refurbishments as of late. If you don't understand why I say that, let me know, because I'm not about to go into it.

But I *would* like you to know that I promote change. I would like to ride Soarin', but heck, I would even like to change Soarin' to add to the Epcot experience. To not have simply a copy of DCA's attraction, but something perhaps even better.

When I talk about the values on these posts, I'm not talking about necessarily my past and personal affection for the pavilion. The other half comes from an overview about what's at the park, and what would be more beneficial for the average guest and Disney itself.

I did know the risks in posting this; I've come underfire before, and I'll be again. But I would like to make it clear that I have never bashed Soarin' in these threads. I've simply shown the trouble in the current WDI plan, and suggested ways to improve on them WHILE incorporating this new ride to Epcot.

So I'll make it clear that I find excitement in change. No, not blind change. I embrace progress. But most of all, I find value in the Disney name. And I intend to express my opinions on this board, just as you have yours.

I'm happy where I am, and I believe that, in the end, "quality will out."

"I zigs and I zags, I tos and I fros. That's what you ask me, and that's what you know."

The General is now off to celebrate Father's Day. He'll be back with more orders afterward.

 

[Fievel]

Griz, you can't take a poll that 39 people have taken and apply it to the whole country. Remember that we care a little bit more about Disney than the average joe 6-pack.

The fact that we care so much and are split should be the first sign that your views are a little extreme.

Griz, NOBODY can or will build a theme park ever again based soley on education. It can't be done. It doesn't fit in our modern frame of society to have it, because people go on vacation to be ENTERTAINED....if they wanted to learn, they'd take a class.

You're never happy - you always want more. You're not happy that they're adding a wonderful new attraction. You look at the cloud rather than the silver lining. Yes, change is innevitable - but you have to embrace change.

You're stuck in the past and have refused to change. That's why MANY people do not share your viewpoint on this. You started a biased poll asking what was wrong - not whether or not this would be good for epcot or the pavillion as a whole after this.

To me - this is the kind of nonsense that I didn't like you a long time about, and I thought you had cooled your emotions on it a bit. You gather the troops and head off and are ready to chain yourself to an attraction if need be.

This is lunacy. You refuse to accept change for what it is - and sooner or later change is going to pass you by.

I fear it already has.


Oh, and I thank everybody for giving me negative ratings for my comments on this thread....apparently Grizz is going to be famous soon and I'm questionable.

 

[Lee]

For what its worth, I just got an e-mail stating that although there will be major changes to the lower level of the land, and to the food court, there will continue to be an area for food and relaxation in that space, only smaller.
This is not me saying this, but a source that has been quite good in the past. It would seem, according to this particular source, that the food fair will not be exactly gutted, so much as just modified to fit with the new themeing on the lower level and to accomodate Soarin's crowds.

As a side note, I want to just say that I respect every opinion on these boards, and that I don't think any of this is a case of "right" or "wrong". While I may have no particular affection for The Land, Epcot, or it's "story", there are of course a few attractions elsewhere that I would "chain myself to" in order to to try to save them from the wrecking ball (Jungle Cruise, anyone?).

Anyway, I'm going to take a "wait and see" attitude from here on out. I love Soarin', and feel that it can only help The Land. Will it change the pavillion? Yeah. For the worse? Too early to tell.

 

[KevinPage]

You're never happy - you always want more. You're not happy that they're adding a wonderful new attraction. You look at the cloud rather than the silver lining. Yes, change is innevitable - but you have to embrace change.

Walt Disney was the one who said he would ride an attraction and think of how he could make it better. He was never content.

While I don't agree with all that Grizz has to say on this subject, I respect his viewpoint and have no problem with him trying to "make it better". Maybe WDI has something better than Grizz's idea, maybe they don't. No one really knows.

But whether you want to fight the system or not, it is always neccesary for this country or society to have people with the opposing viewpoints to keep things in "CHECK". To blindly accept change, just for the sake of change, doesn't do any good. It it's good change and/or progressive change, YES I'm all for it. But the Figment debacle wasn't good change, and look at what happened when people complained and "rallied the troops"? They got Figment back into the ride. It's not going to work every time, but what's the harm? Why not try?

To just go along blindly and accept ANTHING that happens is the same mentality of people who think "my vote doesn't count, why bother". This country & COMPANY was founded on people who questioned the status quo.

 

[careship]

For what its worth, I just got an e-mail stating that although there will be major changes to the lower level of the land, and to the food court, there will continue to be an area for food and relaxation in that space, only smaller.
This is not me saying this, but a source that has been quite good in the past. It would seem, according to this particular source, that the food fair will not be exactly gutted, so much as just modified to fit with the new themeing on the lower level and to accomodate Soarin's crowds.

As a side note, I want to just say that I respect every opinion on these boards, and that I don't think any of this is a case of "right" or "wrong". While I may have no particular affection for The Land, Epcot, or it's "story", there are of course a few attractions elsewhere that I would "chain myself to" in order to to try to save them from the wrecking ball (Jungle Cruise, anyone?).

Anyway, I'm going to take a "wait and see" attitude from here on out. I love Soarin', and feel that it can only help The Land. Will it change the pavillion? Yeah. For the worse? Too early to tell.

I would also chain myself to the Jungle Cruise. Then again, I'd chain myself to anything there to keep me there longer. (j/k) I would seriously have to do something when it came to Jungle Cruise. I would do the same for CBJ also.

 

[KevinPage]

of course a few attractions elsewhere that I would "chain myself to" in order to to try to save them from the wrecking ball (Jungle Cruise, anyone?).

I would chain myself to Jennifer Connelly since I have a huge "attraction" to her :hammer: She was in The Rocketeer, which was a Disney movie. So does that count? :lol:

 

[ToTBellHop]

So yeah, you'll still be able to get your munchies in the land, just not any gigantic selection (from what I heard, it would mainly be snacks...for waiting in Soarin's 100% air conditioned queue). At least it seems there will be a limited seating area for some of you...

If anyone tried to touch Tower of Terror...heads would roll!

 

[cloudboy]

I figure there are two ways you can handle things changing.
1) You can fight it (which is our natural reaction to change) or you can embrace it.
Either way we can't stop it..we just have to either go with the flow or fight it like a demon.

OR, you can decided to take an active role and make it a better change. Good things happen because people work for it, not becasue they accept inevitability.

Griz, NOBODY can or will build a theme park ever again based soley on education. It can't be done. It doesn't fit in our modern frame of society to have it, because people go on vacation to be ENTERTAINED....if they wanted to learn, they'd take a class.

I feel sorry that you still see knowledge a that evil thing you had to spend 18 years on in your early life. Fact is we have to constantly learn every day. Everyday we are seeing new things, picking up new skills, new ideas and new experiences. Learning isn't just a hobby - it's something you are doing every minute of your life. It is part of our survival, both in life skills as well as surviving our environment. Ironically, learning is what brings about all that change which brings new rides lile Soarin'

 

[ToTBellHop]

As a student working toward a Ph.D. in Neuroscience to eventually be a professor at a college or university, I know all about learning and I do it every day (and will for the rest of my life), which is why it is nice to have a break from it when I go to Disney World. This isn't really an argument that applies to The Land, anyway. You will not learn any less from Soarin' than you did from Food Rocks (the queue and post show for Soarin' will not be empty), and I didn't learn anything from my meal at the food court in the Land or the quotes painted on the side of the wall in the Living with the Land queue from 6 year olds that are now in their 30s. The actual Living with the Land ride is not changing, so I do not see how these changes affect the educational content of Epcot at all, unless you count the current education on how to find a table in a crowded Land food court. The lost gift shop is simply being absorbed by the Soarin' gift shop--no loss there. Food Rocks! I already talked about, you will still be able to eat to your heart's content, and there is no net loss in educational content (probably a gain, in fact. Soarin' is getting a very nice queue and post-show). Furthermore, maybe this is a move by Disney to get people to try out all of the fast food restaurants in World Showcase? So, to quote Dr. Phil (sorry!), "What is the problem?"

 

[Bill]

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely LOVE the Sunshine Season Food Fair...

Now, Food Rocks, I couldn't stand. I hated the show. I'm happy it's gone. And I can't wait for Soarin... the only thing I'm worried about is:

A. Theming- they have got to make Soarin' fit in with the Land and Canada.
B. Crowd Control- A Loud Land would be horrible.
C. Why wasn't it built in place of Circle of Life?

 

[epcot2004]

The "peacefullness" of Epcot as a whole is slowly being taken away especially with the addition of Soarin to The Land pavilion. Leave the crowds to Magic Kingdom and MGM. The "old" atmosphere of Epcot was always calming and serene and now I am afraid that it is being transformed into a make-shift amusement park. I read it very fast but i think Grizz suggested making soarin "fit" The Land's" message. That is completely correct. To transplant an attraction and jam it in, with in my opinion, the wrong theme is simply terrible. I'm sure Disney will strike it rich someday with Epcot but it will be far too late for those of us who like it the was it was... :brick:

 

[ToTBellHop]

I don't think anyone working higher up in Disney would agree with your "leave the crowds to the Magic Kingdom and MGM" philosophy. That sounds an awful lot like "leave Epcot less popular than the other parks", which is something we would be ignorant to expect Disney to do. The Walt Disney Co. is a business that seeks to make profit, just like it did in the 1930s with Snow White and I am pretty sure Walt didn't open Disneyland not wishing to make profit either. WDI does not do charity work, this is one of the largest corporations in the world, and it works to make money, above all else (and does a fantastic job at it with Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, at least).

 

[imamouse]

General Grizz,

My compliments on an excellent and well thought out editorial. I've often wondered about what happened to Walt Disney's plan for EPCOT (now Epcot - see the difference?). It would appear that no notes were retained on how Future World would evolve, perhaps due to Walt's [early] death. However, he was such a visionary; I have a hard time believing that his original plan did not also include updates (?). I remember watching Walt Disney on TV and heard this great man speak passionately about both nature and the future. Like you, I would hate to see his visions bastardized due to lack of long-range planning and/or lack of respect for this great man and what he stood for.

Regarding, 'Soarin' - I am hoping for a compromise here. Since the reason 'Soarin' is being replicated in The Land is in celebration of Disneyland's 50th anniversary, I'm OK with it being identical to the CA version - for now - as a temporary tribute to Disneyland. The opportunity here is to later update it to the version that you spoke so eloquently to, which would be more appropriate in The Land. This would bring guests back again and again, to see both versions. The need to attract returning guests is, and should continue to be, high on WDW's list of priorities (or so they say).

Thanks again for taking the time to awaken us sheep.

 

[dxwwf3]

Regarding, 'Soarin' - I am hoping for a compromise here. Since the reason 'Soarin' is being replicated in The Land is in celebration of Disneyland's 50th anniversary, I'm OK with it being identical to the CA version - for now - as a temporary tribute to Disneyland. The opportunity here is to later update it to the version that you spoke so eloquently to, which would be more appropriate in The Land. This would bring guests back again and again, to see both versions. The need to attract returning guests is, and should continue to be, high on WDW's list of priorities (or so they say).

I agree. That would probably be the ideal way to do it, but I still think the current DCA film will only be in Epcot for a short time anyways (Short time meaning a few years max).

 

[ToTBellHop]

I agree. That would probably be the ideal way to do it, but I still think the current DCA film will only be in Epcot for a short time anyways (Short time meaning a few years max).

Correctomundo. A new film is slated to premier late 2007 or sometime in 2008...for now anyway. It's slightly more complicated than just putting a new VHS in But, the system used would allow for changes to be made in the off season, one theatre at a time, resulting in decreased capacity but not a total closure...again...ideally. But, that is the point of having two independent theatres--even if one theatre breaks down or is being refurbished, the other can run.

 

[dxwwf3]

Correctomundo. A new film is slated to premier late 2007 or sometime in 2008...for now anyway. It's slightly more complicated than just putting a new VHS in But, the system used would allow for changes to be made in the off season, one theatre at a time, resulting in decreased capacity but not a total closure...again...ideally. But, that is the point of having two independent theatres--even if one theatre breaks down or is being refurbished, the other can run.

Good news. How has Soarin held up over at DCA? I'm sure it had the expected breakdowns during the first year, but are things running pretty smoothly now?

 

[Lee]

My compliments on an excellent and well thought out editorial. I've often wondered about what happened to Walt Disney's plan for EPCOT (now Epcot - see the difference?). It would appear that no notes were retained on how Future World would evolve, perhaps due to Walt's [early] death. However, he was such a visionary; I have a hard time believing that his original plan did not also include updates (?). I remember watching Walt Disney on TV and heard this great man speak passionately about both nature and the future. Like you, I would hate to see his visions bastardized due to lack of long-range planning and/or lack of respect for this great man and what he stood for.

This is a major misconception. Of course there are no notes on how Walt wanted Future World to evolve...he never wanted there to be a Future World.
Walt's only vision for Epcot was his concept for a real city of the future. As in the great book "Waking Walt", Walt would be pretty ticked off to wake up and find out that his pet project had been turned into a theme park.

So, forget about what Walt wanted...he already didn't get that. (Well, Celebration...but that's a different discussion.)


And yes, dxwwf3, Soarin' is running great at DCA. Very reliable and VERY popular. According to some, it is still drawing more people than the brand new ToT.

 

[The_CEO]

The Teacups are drawing bigger lines than the new ToT....

 

[dxwwf3]

The Teacups are drawing bigger lines than the new ToT....

That is really odd. From the videos I've seen of the DCA version, it seems to me that it is just as good as the one we have in WDW, it's just different. Would this have anything to do with the increased capacity with 3 shafts? I don't really know. If I was a DL regular and I had never been to WDW, I would be psyched out of my mind to have that version of ToT. I'm sure it's going to be better than USH's Revenge of the Mummy (If the USF version is any indication).