The Force Awakens - spoiler thread

[danlb_2000]

My speculation is that Episode 8 further develops Kylo Ren and to do that, you need Harrison Ford for flashbacks.

I think Luke could also be used to fill in some of the backstory. I do wonder if there will be a EU novel that covers those events in detail.

 

[rael ramone]

Since this is the 'place' to discuss w/o having to spoiler tag everything, I'll unveil in this thread the major problem I found with the new film. Haven't read the whole thread, but I've seen other posters have also seen what that problem is.

This is, for all intents and purposes, a remake of A New Hope. (granted, one with good acting, character development, and dialogue by both old and new characters - and the sum of the experience was positive).

I can't blame JJ for this. These problems come from the executive level.

A lack of faith in the filmmakers to make a film that resonates with an original story and/or a lack of faith in the public to accept a fresh new story in that universe.

If you must point the finger at someone within $DIS, it would be the executives that demanded a 'safe' film. But as I suggested in the 'Spirit' thread, this biggest problem may have to do with 'Collective Hollywood Executive Groupthink' - not just $DIS leadership but the industry as a whole. In a few days we have a remake of Point Break to look forward to. Someone is planning to remake Jumanji. Original stories need not apply.

 

[JohnD]

So does anyone else think that Snoke is Darth Plagueis. Darth Plagueis learned to create life from the Force and created Anakin. Maybe he created Rey also and Rey was taken as a baby and hidden from him by his mother after birth. Now, this all sets up a very Spaceballish scene, Where Kylo says to Rey, "No,we are related, You are my Great Grandfathers Daughter". Or maybe, "Like me, you have no Father"

I've heard the theory about Snoke. But I don't think anything of him one way or the other, except that he is a Sith Lord with apprentice Kylo Ren.

 

[culturenthrills]

I'd say she is completely unrelated to any of the main characters. People seem to have this burning need for her to be a Skywalker or Solo. I say she is neither. Nobody knows who she is. If she was one of their kids then they would have known it.

I think her parentage is a macguffin. JJ is notorious for that.

I think her power in the force may be stronger than anyone has seen before. That is why Ren seems to almost fear her. Her light side is so strong. Even after everything she has been through she is still a good person and not dark at all. As far as her lightsaber skills you did notice she is skilled with a staff. Fighting off multiple attackers and fending for herself for years.

And yes Ren was wounded, a shot that would have killed anyone else. That is the only reason she can hold her own but he also wants her alive and you can't forget his arrogance that he wouldn't even think she has a chance against him.

So much of this movie rode on Daisy Ridley's shoulders and she was a revelation. The entire movie relied on you being all in on her journey and she pulled it off.

I really can't wait to see Ep. VIII. So many questions that hopefully we will get some answers.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I used to have such deep respect for George Lucas as a director after his original SW trilogy, THX-1138, and other films that he directed. Unfortunately once he created the newest trilogy that respect went right in the toilet. He nearly destroyed a franchise that has been near and dear to me since I was a child. I'm glad he had nothing to do with this movie. Not even creative consultant.

I respect him to a certain extent as an artist. He's clearly a good world builder, but he's such a poor writer and character builder. THX-1138 worked because of the neutrality of the world portrayed in that film, which played into his strengths as a writer.

I respect him very little for telling his fanbase, with his OT edits, that the original versions that we fell in love with are wrong and we shouldn't be fans of them. That's a horrible philosophy for him to have.

It's absolutely insulting.

I think Lucas was at his best when he was more like Walt Disney. In the beginning he surrounded himself with clever & creative people who could build on his ideas and help form them into a great final product.

With the prequels, he called all the shots. He didn't get the help he should have with the stories, the dialogue, and the directing. I got the impression no one challenged him or had a chance to make things better.

I'm glad he stepped away, but I would love to see a Star Wars story where Lucas planted the basic seeds and let others run with it. I suppose that is what this movie is though.

 

[JohnD]

I think Lucas was at his best when he was more like Walt Disney. In the beginning he surrounded himself with clever & creative people who could build on his ideas and help form them into a great final product.

With the prequels, he called all the shots. He didn't get the help he should have with the stories, the dialogue, and the directing. I got the impression no one challenged him or had a chance to make things better.

I'm glad he stepped away, but I would love to see a Star Wars story where Lucas planted the basic seeds and let others run with it. I suppose that is what this movie is though.

What made Empire successful and the best of the series is that Lucas stepped away to Executive Produce so that Irvin Kirshner could direct and focus on character development. Kirshner also allowed the cast to improvise ("I know", anyone?) Too bad he didn't do that with the prequels. And maybe bring in someone like Lawrence Kasdan to help with the script. The dialogue in their entire prequel is so wooden.

 

[culturenthrills]

I don't see it as the new film discounting what happened in the original trilogy. The original trilogy told the story of the Rebel Alliance vs. the Empire. By the end of the Return of the Jedi, the Empire had been defeated. But just because one evil was eradicated, doesn't mean all evil is gone forever. Every group like that has a band of overzealous and dangerous radicals within its following, and the First Order was born out of the ideals set by the Empire. The Resistance isn't the Rebel Alliance, and the First Order isn't the Empire.

You could argue that the bigger and better Death Star is the product of 30 years of advanced technology.



The First Order recruited Kylo Ren, one of the last remaining Jedi. The only person outside of him that could have known about the birth of the First Order and their nefarious plans was probably Luke Skywalker, but he went into exile after Ren turned on him and killed a number of Jedi-in-training. Han was smuggling after Ren turned, so he probably wouldn't know about the First Order's development until it was too late. We don't have a timeline in terms of when the Resistance was born, and when Leia became the de facto General, so it's tough to know if they were born in reaction to the First Order's assembly or beforehand.

At the end of ROTJ the Emperor was defeated but it is canon now that part of the Empire kept fighting on and eventually came to a standstill with the New Republic and have control over part of the galaxy and have built themselves back up as The First Order.

 

[NMBC1993]

While I don't have an opinion on the actual finished film (mostly because I haven't seen it) I was very happy to hear audiences comparing Episode VII to Episode IV because from the time the second trailer came out, those were my thoughts exactly. That the film was basically a reboot of A New Hope.

With that said, I am very disappointed to hear that Mark Hamill did not play a larger role in the film. I'm sorry, but they had the ACTUAL Luke on set. Why didn't he fight Kylo Ren during the snow battle?? Yes, I'm sure there's plot points in the film explaining his role but how awesome would it have been for Luke to be the one catching the lightsaber as it flies away from Kylo Ren?

As he pulls back the hood from his cloak, we hear Mark repeat his famous line from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back....."Don't **** With THE Jedi Master, Son!" as he leaps into battle.

But hey, I get it....this movie is about the NEW actors making an impact on newer generations. How else are they suppose to sell Rey action figures to kids?

Edit: Also, I would like to take a moment and actually give George Lucas credit on one thing regarding the prequels. Sure we might not have liked them, sure some ideas should have been left on the cutting room floor but we have to credit Lucas for at least trying to come up with new concepts for the Star Wars universe instead of just reusing the same plot devices all over again.

 

[Tunge]

Loved the movie!!!

I watched 2 days ago and have had time to digest! Let me start by saying that I am a fan of star wars as I was 5 when New Hope came out & saw Empire strikes back in the Theatre as a young kid. I never saw any of the prequels at the Theatre but have them on DVD.

The things I love most about the new movie: All the new Characters:

New Characters Finn & Rey: Love Rey she is a kick butt scavenger that can take care of herself and loved how she was discovering the force, I cant wait to find out to whom she belongs. Finn has great energy and great background story- as a young kid I never really knew what stormtroppers where? humans? robots? they never really had a story but to say that Finn was a real person with feelings is awesome!!

Kylo Ren: probably my 2nd favorite character: He is so much younger and undisciplined then When we were introduced to Darth Vader, Again after the New Hope, we really didn't know much about Darth other than he was evil, Kylo is just starting out on the Dark side and really just obsessed and a wannabe with Vader. He kind of reminds me of when Anakin was switching over, just a bad temper young kid. Kylo hasn't even begun to see how powerful he can be and I am excited to see how strong he becomes. Am I the only one shocked that he killed off his father? it really makes his character have more depth, but everyone I was with said they saw that coming, but again growing up watching these movies, Luke & Han got out of every situation.

Graphics and battles I thought were awesome, it is great to see how far technology has come when you go back and watch the original 3. The X wings doing that low flyover was pretty sweet.

A lot of people have been bashing that it played too much back to New Hope! I loved it! Loved all the lines going back to the old movies and most where the funniest in the movie, "trash compactor", Rey using the force on the Stormtrooper, all great parts.

I loved the story, I really like that Luke didn't have any lines and wasn't seen until 30 seconds left (to me he looks the best of the original cast)

My Rating was a 9.5 out of 10

My Least Favorite:
This is tough for me but I would say 1 is the Music, I was hoping for a little more out of the score, Star Wars is known for that and I wanted more.
Another is ending with blowing up the planet, I could have done without that.

My Rankings of Star Wars

1. New Hope
2. Force Awakens
3. Empire Strikes Back
4. Revenge of the Sith
5.Return of the Jedi
6. Phantom Menace
7. Attack of the clones (really kind of a tie with phantom menace but are bad too me)

With all the negative posts on this board I am sure I will get hammered for this post as a fanboi, oh well, to be truthful I have never been to any of those fan fares,never have bought merchandise after the age of 12 and have never dressed up as a character for Halloween, just not my thing.

 

[culturenthrills]

It's better because the expectations and the anticipation are no longer part of judging the film. I thought viewing two was significantly better than 1.

I second that. I liked it even more the 2nd time. Also, noticed the score more the 2nd viewing. It is very beautiful esp. Rey's Theme.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

With that said, I am very disappointed to hear that Mark Hamill did not play a larger role in the film. I'm sorry, but they had the ACTUAL Luke on set. Why didn't he fight Kylo Ren during the snow battle?? Yes, I'm sure there's plot points in the film explaining his role but how awesome would it have been for Luke to be the one catching the lightsaber as it flies away from Kylo Ren?

As they have said in interviews, any time they thought about bringing in Luke earlier he overshadowed the new characters.

This would also require a complete retooling of the movie's main premise - the search for Luke Skywalker. You can't have a movie where they're trying to find him, only to have him show up on his own regardless.

Once you get over the initial disappointment that Luke isn't in it much (which I felt as well the first time), you may just feel, as I did, that the ending was masterful. We got the nostalgia with Han & Leia, and by holding Luke back it makes us want the next installment so much more.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I second that. I liked it even more the 2nd time. Also, noticed the score more the 2nd viewing. It is very beautiful esp. Rey's Theme.

Yep. There's honestly too much to properly take in the first time. I listened to the soundtrack after the movie and then I really noticed its brilliance the second time.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Kylo Ren: probably my 2nd favorite character: He is so much younger and undisciplined then When we were introduced to Darth Vader, Again after the New Hope, we really didn't know much about Darth other than he was evil, Kylo is just starting out on the Dark side and really just obsessed and a wannabe with Vader. He kind of reminds me of when Anakin was switching over, just a bad temper young kid. Kylo hasn't even begun to see how powerful he can be and I am excited to see how strong he becomes. Am I the only one shocked that he killed off his father? it really makes his character have more depth, but everyone I was with said they saw that coming, but again growing up watching these movies, Luke & Han got out of every situation.

I disagree here, but I think it's something that can change in the subsequent movies. I thought Kylo Ren was a weak villain.

1. New Hope
2. Force Awakens
3. Empire Strikes Back
4. Revenge of the Sith
5.Return of the Jedi
6. Phantom Menace
7. Attack of the clones (really kind of a tie with phantom menace but are bad too me)

I probably agree with this order as well. Revenge of the Sith doesn't get enough credit, it's a good movie.

 

[NMBC1993]

As they have said in interviews, any time they thought about bringing in Luke earlier he overshadowed the new characters.

This would also require a complete retooling of the movie's main premise - the search for Luke Skywalker. You can't have a movie where they're trying to find him, only to have him show up on his own regardless.

Once you get over the initial disappointment that Luke isn't in it much (which I felt as well the first time), you may just feel, as I did, that the ending was masterful. We got the nostalgia with Han & Leia, and by holding Luke back it makes us want the next installment so much more.

I understand what your getting at, but given the popularity of Luke Skywalker SHOULDN'T he overshadow the new characters? Apart from Darth Vader, he's the overall staple of Star Wars. He's what people come to see and I believe having Luke show off his amazing skills as a wise and older Jedi Master would have had all those nostalgia fans flailing in their seats. They would have to re-tool the story, so what? If anything the new characters should have been put on the back burner for later films in order to give the older actors one last chance to "shine". Even with that said, they probably could just have Luke say something like "You could not find me because I only allowed you to see what I wanted you to see" have him use a secret Jedi technique that he mastered in his later years. Similar to the invisibility cloak in Harry Potter.

Also, I hate to break it to you but I have no "nostalgia" for Star Wars. Back when I was little the original films were already on VHS and the prequels had not been released yet, so if you wanted to watch Star Wars the only option was to watch on your tiny TV in VHS quality. To me, Star Wars is just another movie series same as Jurassic Park, Indiana Jones, Alien, Pirates of the Caribbean, etc. Heck, I'm more nostalgic for something like Power Rangers than I am for Star Wars, but that just shows the difference between generations.

 

[G00fyDad]

So does anyone else think that Snoke is Darth Plagueis. Darth Plagueis learned to create life from the Force and created Anakin. Maybe he created Rey also and Rey was taken as a baby and hidden from him by his mother after birth. Now, this all sets up a very Spaceballish scene, Where Kylo says to Rey, "No,we are related, You are my Great Grandfathers Daughter". Or maybe, "Like me, you have no Father"

Nope.

 

[JohnD]

Loved the movie!!!

I watched 2 days ago and have had time to digest! Let me start by saying that I am a fan of star wars as I was 5 when New Hope came out & saw Empire strikes back in the Theatre as a young kid. I never saw any of the prequels at the Theatre but have them on DVD.

The things I love most about the new movie: All the new Characters:

New Characters Finn & Rey: Love Rey she is a kick butt scavenger that can take care of herself and loved how she was discovering the force, I cant wait to find out to whom she belongs. Finn has great energy and great background story- as a young kid I never really knew what stormtroppers where? humans? robots? they never really had a story but to say that Finn was a real person with feelings is awesome!!

Kylo Ren: probably my 2nd favorite character: He is so much younger and undisciplined then When we were introduced to Darth Vader, Again after the New Hope, we really didn't know much about Darth other than he was evil, Kylo is just starting out on the Dark side and really just obsessed and a wannabe with Vader. He kind of reminds me of when Anakin was switching over, just a bad temper young kid. Kylo hasn't even begun to see how powerful he can be and I am excited to see how strong he becomes. Am I the only one shocked that he killed off his father? it really makes his character have more depth, but everyone I was with said they saw that coming, but again growing up watching these movies, Luke & Han got out of every situation.

Graphics and battles I thought were awesome, it is great to see how far technology has come when you go back and watch the original 3. The X wings doing that low flyover was pretty sweet.

A lot of people have been bashing that it played too much back to New Hope! I loved it! Loved all the lines going back to the old movies and most where the funniest in the movie, "trash compactor", Rey using the force on the Stormtrooper, all great parts.

I loved the story, I really like that Luke didn't have any lines and wasn't seen until 30 seconds left (to me he looks the best of the original cast)

My Rating was a 9.5 out of 10

My Least Favorite:
This is tough for me but I would say 1 is the Music, I was hoping for a little more out of the score, Star Wars is known for that and I wanted more.
Another is ending with blowing up the planet, I could have done without that.

My Rankings of Star Wars

1. New Hope
2. Force Awakens
3. Empire Strikes Back
4. Revenge of the Sith
5.Return of the Jedi
6. Phantom Menace
7. Attack of the clones (really kind of a tie with phantom menace but are bad too me)

With all the negative posts on this board I am sure I will get hammered for this post as a fanboi, oh well, to be truthful I have never been to any of those fan fares,never have bought merchandise after the age of 12 and have never dressed up as a character for Halloween, just not my thing.

One can argue over rankings. I won't nit with you on your specific placements but I did have ANH, TFA, and ESB in the top three but in a different order. I also had ROTJ, TPM, and AOTC in the bottom three. And you're right. Phantom and Clones could be switched.

 

[JohnD]

As they have said in interviews, any time they thought about bringing in Luke earlier he overshadowed the new characters.

This would also require a complete retooling of the movie's main premise - the search for Luke Skywalker. You can't have a movie where they're trying to find him, only to have him show up on his own regardless.

Once you get over the initial disappointment that Luke isn't in it much (which I felt as well the first time), you may just feel, as I did, that the ending was masterful. We got the nostalgia with Han & Leia, and by holding Luke back it makes us want the next installment so much more.

It also enabled giving Han his due in this movie, considering the plot direction of his character. Which means Luke will be more central in the next movie at least.

 

[RSoxNo1]

There is something very smart that was done with Rey in this movie. Han Solo accepted her, as a result, we as the viewer also accepted her.

 

[Clamman73]

Just got back from a noon 3D show...Loooove Rey.
I thought that new Death Star thingy was going to be a lot smaller, but not really...
Should have shown a little bit more of how Poe survived the crash...
Now I know why Ren had that lightsaber with the extra hilt part to it was to make up for the shortcoming of his current powers...
Wanted to see that new AT-AT in action...
I understand what people are saying about the music score, but I started to get a little tied up with what was going on in the whole second half that the music wasn't even registering at that point...would have to watch again to remove myself from worrying about what's about to happen to be a little more engrossed in the totality of the film and not just focused on about who's just about to be killed.
It really moved fast...I think there was more filmed but they were getting a little long and kept what they could.

Did I miss how 3PO got the red arm?

 

[JohnD]

Did I miss how 3PO get the red arm?

No, he just made reference to it and the movie continued on. At some point in the last 30 years, he lost one of his limbs. Maybe Chewbacca didn't put it back on very well in ESB and it finally fell off sometime after ROTJ. They found an inactivated red protocol droid somewhere and scrapped it for parts. Who knows?