The Force Awakens - spoiler thread

[Tony Perkis]

I'm hoping that the stupid "Jedi cannot have relationships" concept is one of those things that gets retconned away with the new trilogy -- like having Luke and Rey and whomever else become Jedi to do away with the silly rule and declare that love is a key part of being a Jedi and relationships are important or somesuch. No reason a new Jedi order has to adhere to all of the concepts of the past organization.

Agreed. That was a mandate put forth by the Jedi Council. Luckily, the Jedi Council no longer exists.

I hate the prequels, but they are considered canon, so they have to be treated as such. Doesn't mean the sequels can't simply undo what was established.

 

[doctornick]

lets not forget that there are way many more "reviewers" now. Which are simply guys who write for blogs, movie sites and minor newspapers.
I usually just filter by "top critics".

And FWIW, if you filter for "top critics", Episode I has a 41% RT score. Episode VII has a 91% rating among top critics.

 

[danlb_2000]

I can't vouch for the shows, since I haven't seen them, but in the films' canon, Jedi can't be in relationships and have children. Given Obi Wan's state by the end of Revenge of the Sith, and the fact that he is a goody-goody type of Jedi, I highly doubt the kid is his.

Even if he did knock somebody up just before the events of A New Hope, Rey is still far too young for that timeline to work. TFA takes place 30 years after Return of the Jedi.

Jedi are not supposed to have relationships, but they do. Anakin was a Jedi and had a relationship and children in the movies. Yes, she is to young to be a child, but not a grandchild. It's an interesting parallel since we have Kylo as the grandchild of Anakin. Again, I doubt this is the case, but it can't be ruled out.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I can't vouch for the shows, since I haven't seen them, but in the films' canon, Jedi can't be in relationships and have children. Given Obi Wan's state by the end of Revenge of the Sith, and the fact that he is a goody-goody type of Jedi, I highly doubt the kid is his.

Even if he did knock somebody up just before the events of A New Hope, Rey is still far too young for that timeline to work. TFA takes place 30 years after Return of the Jedi.

I'm hoping that the stupid "Jedi cannot have relationships" concept is one of those things that gets retconned away with the new trilogy -- like having Luke and Rey and whomever else become Jedi to do away with the silly rule and declare that love is a key part of being a Jedi and relationships are important or somesuch. No reason a new Jedi order has to adhere to all of the concepts of the past organization.

I agree that the whole no family things should just be ditched. There is nothing in what Obi-Wan tells Luke that suggests that his father did something wrong by having a family.

 

[Cesar R M]

And FWIW, if you filter for "top critics", Episode I has a 41% RT score. Episode VII has a 91% rating among top critics.

Thats the point.
Many low level reviewers can inflate the scores. They could pull a Jim and be a shill to inflate the scores.
Hell, I even seen a few who put negatives to everything. The kind of "edgy guys" who just cant be pleased and just drive the scores lower just for the hell of it (Anton Ego syndrome?)

 

[Tony Perkis]

Jedi are not supposed to have relationships, but they do. Anakin was a Jedi and had a relationship and children in the movies. Yes, she is to young to be a child, but not a grandchild. It's an interesting parallel since we have Kylo as the grandchild of Anakin. Again, I doubt this is the case, but it can't be ruled out.

Yeah, I guess you can't rule it out, but introducing a new character in Episode VIII or IX just so that they can be used as a biological bridge between her and Obi Wan is simply bad storytelling.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Thats the point.
Many low level reviewers can inflate the scores. They could pull a Jim and be a shill to inflate the scores.
Hell, I even seen a few who put negatives to everything. The kind of "edgy guys" who just cant be pleased and just drive the scores lower just for the hell of it (Anton Ego syndrome?)

There's a reason Armond White no longer is allowed to have an entry on Rotten Tomatoes.

 

[doctornick]

Thats the point.
Many low level reviewers can inflate the scores. They could pull a Jim and be a shill to inflate the scores.
Hell, I even seen a few who put negatives to everything. The kind of "edgy guys" who just cant be pleased and just drive the scores lower just for the hell of it (Anton Ego syndrome?)

Agreed. I was further pointing out that if you filter for the "Top Critics" -- which would hopefully filter out the fanboys who inflate a score or the insatiable grumps who want to condemn everything -- you would presumable get professional and objective reviews. And the difference between TPM (terrible) and TFA (still excellent) is staggering. I think anyone who is conflating the opening weekend response of TFA to alleged positive reviews at the same point for TPM are not being accurate as to their receptions.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

perhaps that is what the supposed ROGUE ONE or Harrison Ford's HAN SOLO movies will explain.
exactly WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED after the battle of Endor.

The Han Solo movie is expected to recast a young Han Solo.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Disney corporate isn't going to be dictating storylines. Kathleen Kennedy will be the liaison between corporate and the creatives at Lucasfilm.

This. People are so worried about the Disneyfication of Star Wars, while forgetting that Disney has been smart enough to let Marvel be Marvel on their own.

 

[Mawg]

I'm hoping that the stupid "Jedi cannot have relationships" concept is one of those things that gets retconned away with the new trilogy -- like having Luke and Rey and whomever else become Jedi to do away with the silly rule and declare that love is a key part of being a Jedi and relationships are important or somesuch. No reason a new Jedi order has to adhere to all of the concepts of the past organization.

agree, new Jedi will be more raw and self taught flipping between light and dark. Kylo was born with people knowing he would be force strong and they could not keep him from the Dark Side even being able to start his training at an early age. Look who his master was, Luke. Luke was barely trained a Jedi himself how could he start training other Jedi's. At this point it seems there are no rules behind the Jedi anything could and should happen. There's really only one Jedi left anyway, Luke and we was pretty much a self proclaimed Jedi. Anyone else would just be Force Strong. The Jedi council decided who was a Jedi or a Jedi Master, without it anyone Force Strong can just proclaim themselves a Jedi and really live by any rules they want.

 

[flynnibus]

I agree that the whole no family things should just be ditched. There is nothing in what Obi-Wan tells Luke that suggests that his father did something wrong by having a family.

But Yoda's teachings even in ESB are all about needing to give up feelings and attachments. It's not till later of course that they use the anakin/padmae relationship as part of the wedge that pushes anakin over the edge. The idea that the jedi dedicate themselves to service of others is consistent with banning homesteading

 

[Tony Perkis]

But Yoda's teachings even in ESB are all about needing to give up feelings and attachments. It's not till later of course that they use the anakin/padmae relationship as part of the wedge that pushes anakin over the edge. The idea that the jedi dedicate themselves to service of others is consistent with banning homesteading

And yet Luke ignoring Yoda's pleas to complete his training in order to save everyone in ESB.

 

[JohnD]

Honestly, it's worse than that, because he's retroactively changing the original trilogy with conflicting ideas that don't fit in his own universe. Why is young Anakin one of the force ghosts at the end of Return of the Jedi? Young Anakin killed children and embraced the dark side, causing an imbalance to the Force. Old Anakin destroyed the Emperor and obliterated the Empire's rule over the galaxy, thus redeeming himself.

Agree. But even if you happen to think it should be Young Anakin at the end of ROTJ, they removed a smiling Sebastian Shaw for a leering, creepy Anakin. Ugh. I mean, they couldn't at least get a shot of him smiling?

 

[Progress.City]

Some more thoughts about the movie:

• Bringing in Lawrence Kasdan to cowrite was an incredibly brilliant idea. Certain dialogues between characters are unquestionably written by Kasdan, IMO. It's that same quick whit you see in ESB and also Raiders of the Lost Ark. Ironically, all of these sly one-line remarks (that I'm referring to) are in all three of these movies and are delivered and brilliantly performed (in part) by Harison Ford.
• There were some "unnecessary" dialogues between Leah and Han that they could have removed. The dialogues I'm referring to probably were written in earlier drafts and were probably not written by Kasdan. These achieve the same plot points as the Kasdan dialogues but without the whit.
• I think Kilo Ren's character falls flat. Maybe his backstory will be revealed in the next episode. I'm specifically referring to the scene when a certain good guy from the movie attempts to talk him into something. That certain character said that with no emotion and made the whole situation about Kilo Ren's background not very believable.
• I love Rey, but we barely know anything about her. A little more character development would have been cool.
• There are too many scene with characters giving hugs. One or two hugging scenes is acceptable, but they over did it, maybe.
• IMDB lists George Lucas as an uncredited writer and the creator of characters. Could this mean that Disney didn't throw Lucas' original stories out completely, recycling at least it's characters and situations?
• In an early 1980's interview, Lucas said the nine movies were planned to be told from the droids points of view. This movie did not follow this tradition.

 

[JohnD]

When the Force called to Rey, was it Obi Wans voice? It sounded like it. Sorry if this has been mentioned

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-reveals-obi-wan-and-yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens

 

[JohnD]

can someone clarify.. when Kylo is talking in his chamber and they reveal vader's mask. Doesn't he say something to the effect of 'I'll finish what you started father..' referring to Vader? My Q is.. does he refer to Vader as father here? Shouldn't it be his uncle? Did I miss the lines?

I think he actually said "grandfather."

 

[danlb_2000]

Some more thoughts about the movie:

• Bringing in Lawrence Kasdan to cowrite was an incredibly brilliant idea. Certain dialogues between characters are unquestionably written by Kasdan, IMO. It's that same quick whit you see in ESB and also Raiders of the Lost Ark. Ironically, all of these sly one-line remarks (that I'm referring to) are in all three of these movies and are delivered and brilliantly performed (in part) by Harison Ford.
• There were some "unnecessary" dialogues between Leah and Han that they could have removed. The dialogues I'm referring to probably were written in earlier drafts and were probably not written by Kasdan. These achieve the same plot points as the Kasdan dialogues but without the whit.
• I think Kilo Ren's character falls flat. Maybe his backstory will be revealed in the next episode. I'm specifically referring to the scene when a certain good guy from the movie attempts to talk him into something. That certain character said that with no emotion and made the whole situation about Kilo Ren's background not very believable.
• I love Rey, but we barely know anything about her. A little more character development would have been cool.
• There are too many scene with characters giving hugs. One or two hugging scenes is acceptable, but they over did it, maybe.
• IMDB lists George Lucas as an uncredited writer and the creator of characters. Could this mean that Disney didn't throw Lucas' original stories out completely, recycling at least it's characters and situations?
• In an early 1980's interview, Lucas said the nine movies were planned to be told from the droids points of view. This movie did not follow this tradition.

I am not sure where you saw the "uncredited writer" but IMDB and the movie credits list George as "based on characters created by".

Lucas said a lot of things about future movies at various points in time.

 

[flynnibus]

And yet Luke ignoring Yoda's pleas to complete his training in order to save everyone in ESB.

and? We all know Luke and his father were flawed Jedi... and pretty much root cause for most of the plot. The discussion was about Jedi's practice, not defining them by Luke's failures or not.

 

[P_Radden]

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-reveals-obi-wan-and-yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens

Good read.

This part is worth posting here:

Of course, they do know who Rey is, where she comes from, and why she was abandoned. But Abrams says part of the appeal of the new trilogy will be spreading out those revelations.

“Everyone who has seen these movies thinks about ‘I am your father …’ and ‘There is another …’,” the director said. “But neither of those things were in [1977’s original] Star Wars. Star Wars didn’t say Luke was the son of Vader. Star Wars didn’t say Leia was the sister of Luke. You didn’t understand what these references were: the Empire, dark times, Clone Wars. There were these things that were discussed that don’t get explained. George [Lucas] dropped you into a story and respected you to infer everything necessary to understand what you need to know.”

The Force Awakens does confirm the family relationships of villain Kylo Ren, and Abrams felt that was enough. “Can this movie actually also hold, ‘And Rey is this … And Finn is that … And this is where Poe is from …’ This is the first of a series. There is a story to be told. And it will be.”

All-in-all, I'm very excited to see where the production team takes the trilogy from here.