Kate F
Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity, what are your opinions of the prequels, and do you believe that this is worse than all of them?
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The Force Awakens - spoiler thread
- Thread starter Phroobar
- Start date
rucifee
Well-Known Member
I sadly do think this was worse than all of them. I considered the prequels to be "just ok", but I didn't dislike them the way I do episode 7. Episode 7 seems like a cherry picked and highly edited reboot of the original episodes without the depth or talented acting.
I think Jar Jar is worse than Kylo Ren, but not by a lot. I preferred episode 3 over 2 and 1 by far, but I'd rate force awakens as below phantom menace. The only redeeming factor to this episode was Rey, she's the only character I'd carry over to a sequel. The movie has the Disney scent, but I can't fully blame them for it because I'd even rate Frozen higher than Force Awakens...I actually watched Frozen more than once...if I were alone I would have walked out of Force Awakens, I disliked it that much. To be completely fair, I also saw episodes 1-3 more than once but I wouldn't watch this episode again. I think they tried to do way too much and explained way too little, for example how did they find the falcon in space when they couldn't find it on a planet??? Luke Skywalker ran away from Kylo Ren??? Seriously??? What were the rebels even in the movie for, they accomplished absolutely nothing, oh, they needed to blow up another death star... It came across as a typical JJ Abrams half baked reboot, lets take some things from other movies put them together and do some editing because I can't make a movie on my own. He may be the worst thing that's happened to classic stories in our lifetime.
G00fyDad
Well-Known Member
Cause I'm all fired up and all. Yeah. We get it.
fractal
Well-Known Member
Right, no similarity at all to "A New Hope"
1. There’s a droid carrying valuable information who finds himself on a desolate desert planet.
2. There’s a Force-sensitive, masked, and darkly clothed antagonist who arrives on the scene shortly after the information is handed off, looking for the droid.
3. There’s a desert settlement that is wiped out by stormtroopers.
4. There’s a hero who’s tortured by the bad guys to retrieve the information.
5. There’s a lonely, Force-strong desert dweller who dreams of more.
6. There’s a worldly old warrior who has to explain the Force to the next generation.
7. There’s a cruel military officer who holds a comparable level of authority to his Force-sensitive, masked, and darkly clothed colleague.
8. There’s a mostly unseen supreme evil that’s pulling the strings from the shadows.
9. There’s a criminal element that’s owed a debt by Han Solo and attempts to kill him after he screws up their arrangement.
10. There’s a cantina filled with various alien creatures.
11. There’s a moment when one of the heroes abandons the fight as a self-preservation measure, but he eventually returns.
12. There’s a massive spherical weapon that’s used to destroy a planet.
13. There’s a base belonging to the rebel forces on a forest-covered world.
14. There’s a surrogate father figure who is cut down by someone previously close to him, who has turned to the dark side.
15. The hero watches helplessly from afar as the surrogate father figure is slayed.
16. There’s a coordinated aerial attack on the massive spherical weapon that’s monitored from a control room by Leia.
17. There’s a trench that X-wings flew through in order to fire on a vulnerability in the weapon and destroy it.
18. There’s a massive explosion that gives the rebels a major victory but likely allows the Force-sensitive, masked, and darkly clothed antagonist to survive to fight another day.
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/19/star-wars-force-awakens-new-hope-similarities
JJ had an entire Universe to work with and all he could muster was a remake? Even worse, all the people gushing over this movie doesn't bode well for the next one. We've certainly lowered our standards. I think it's so much about wanting this movie to be worthy, many have convinced themselves it is.
For me, the best Star Wars movie to come out since Empire is Guardians of the Galaxy. That movie created the excitement, wonder and good feeling of the first 2 Star Wars much better than the next 4 and this unimaginative money grab.
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fractal
Well-Known Member
One more thing - at least in A New Hope and even Jedi (as much as I hated yet another Death Star), there was a secret dangerous mission in both to capture the plans of the planet killer, then after extensive analysis they were able to pinpoint a weakness. In TFA, the entire plan was hatched up in less than a minute by Han Solo and Finn. JJ has absolutely no time for plot development, got to move on to the next big battle as fast as possible. I feel he made this movie for all his Hollywood Friends who never saw a Star Wars movie but now thinks it's a "cool thing" to like Star Wars. I feel betrayed by him because he's my age and talked the talk about how he was going to bring back the feel of the first trilogy while expanding the story. Visually he hit the mark, with everything else it went backwards.
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rucifee
Well-Known Member
The movie would have at least been properly labeled had it been called "Star Wars, the joke edition"
fractal
Well-Known Member
I'm calling it, "JJ Abrams' Attack of the Clone"
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
It's so crazy how two people can see the same movie, and have such different experiences. I loved the movie, and I am planning on seeing it again this week.
The call backs to Ep IV didn't really bother me at all. The Empire builds big bases. It's their thing. They also build them with very obvious, very silly weaknesses, it's what they do. The other little things didn't even effect me at all.
I also fell in love with the new characters. Rey is my favorite movie character since Captain Jack Sparrow sprang to life. I thought Finn was awesome, I felt for him, I felt with him, and I rooted like heck for him. BB-8 is a wonder.
I'm glad that Han as been moved off stage, and I am hoping Leia gets pushed aside as well. We need Luke to teach Rey to hone her skills, but after that, eliminate him as well. Let these new kids move the rebellion forward.
Anyways, sorry you didn't like it.
rucifee
Well-Known Member
That or "Abrams Wars - Attack of the Crap". LOL
At least he's not directing Star Trek 3....
FoozieBear
Well-Known Member
I think Kylo Rens unmasking was one of the best elements of he movie. I mean, it really allows for some fantastic character development.
I like that the face of terror was unmasked to some troubled kid. I like adding a human layer to him and someone who I actually thought I could sympthasize with.
I like that the face of terror was unmasked to some troubled kid. I like adding a human layer to him and someone who I actually thought I could sympthasize with.
TyTrap
Well-Known Member
I actually agree man. Like everyone craps on the prequels but they were actually original stories and weren't just inserted into a template of another Star Wars movie. Also for me the movie had way too much humor. You can have some with Han but come on they really amped it up. And I have watched the prequels multiple times and enjoy them. Force awakens is just a fan service movie. I didn't hate this movie but I was expecting more from it.
JohnD
Well-Known Member
I agree there are similarities to Ep IV. Doesn't mean it's a bad movie. I agree with one commenter that Kylo's unmasking might have been more effective on the gangplank when confronting Han. For those who panned the movie, everyone has a right to their opinion, but I get the impression they were waiting to hate it and found reasons to do so. I don't think anything in the story would have gotten them to like the movie. Do I think this was the best of the seven? No. Do I think it's the worst of the seven? No. I would put it after Eps V and IV but definitely better than I and II.
Tony Perkis
Well-Known Member
But those original stories that you praise the sequels for are bad. The acting across the board is atrocious. The dialogue is otherworldly in its awfulness. You can give credit to Lucas for realizing his vision unadulterated and without compromise, and that's fine, but that also means he's fully responsible for not only all of the films' successes, but all of their flaws as well.
Just looking at he prequels and The Force Awakens, I honestly don't see how anyone can say the previous three were better films. You could subjectively enjoy them more, but I strongly believe they are objectively poor films that fail to accomplish the most basic filmmaking criteria that this new one gets very right.
The Force Awakens rehashes a number of plot elements from both ANH and bits of ESB, but using that as the primary criticism basically ignores the strengths the film possesses.
-Three new, intriguing characters that will provide great storytelling opportunities in subsequent films.
-A new piece of merchandise, I mean droid, that actually rivals the impact that R2D2 had when he was first introduced
-An actual villain that was properly developed and had a distinguishable personality. Darth Maul, Jango Fett, Count Dooku, and General Grevious are poorly realized villains, some of which are largely irrelevant to the story
-Real sets vs. over reliance on CGI
-Good acting vs. bad acting. Much of the prequels cast gave notoriously the worst performances of their careers
-Belieavble, character based dialogue vs. the tripe Lucas wrote
-No Jar Jar in TFW vs. Jar Jar in the prequels
-Real lightsaber duels with consequences, as opposed to the overly choreographed and emotionless ones in the prequels
Sorry, but by most metrics, I cannot see how anyone can view the prequels as better films. They are just objectively poorly made.
TyTrap
Well-Known Member
thats just my opinion bro. I didn't say it was gospel. I just felt it to be super fan service and not ok let's tell a different story. And in any fight there are consequences overly choreographed or not. This movie just didn't impress me as much as I thought it would.
Tony Perkis
Well-Known Member
There are plenty are very identifiable reasons to hate the prequels.
-Bad stories.
-Horrid dialogue
-Bad, underwritten, humorless characters
-Jar Jar Binks. Everything about him. He's just an embarrassment in film.
-Overreliance on CGI versus practical effects. This is a huge deterrent because you can in a number of scenes that the actors are walking against a CGI backdrop or talking to something that isn't there.
-A massive conflict in reasoning from Lucas. He says these are kid films and that's why adults don't like the Jar Jar humor, but frames the entire first film around a trade blockade and senate hearings. Greatly conflicting tones.
-Characters exist to tell the audience the plot. Rematch those films, there are countless moments where the characters walk/sit and talk about the plot developments instead of letting them happen.
-Villains with no personality. They're villains because their inherently evil. No reason beyond that.
- poor chemistry between Anakin and Padme. The only reason the audience knows they're in love is because their dialogue says they are.
-The second film legitimately does nothing to progress the plot. Other than a small handful of scenes, it adds nothing to the prequel saga
-Bad, atrocious acting. The product of Lucas not knowing how to direct actors and replacing real sets and characters with CGI counterparts
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TyTrap
Well-Known Member
Could you write and produce a better film than George Lucas? Honestly dude you sound like all the internet sheep that copy other people's opinions then use them as your own.
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Arthur Wellesley
Well-Known Member
Finn's story is my favorite from what we've seen. As far as the two main protagonists go, his transition seemed more paced & realistic than his Force-enabled counterpart. While Rey is no doubt a strong character, her progress just seemed too Herculean during the 2nd half of the movie, making many of her feats almost unbelievable for such an early stage in her saga, and with minimal experience using the Force.
But Finn just seems more human; a hero-in-progress that we can understand. You can realistically grasp the trauma & horror which turns him off of being a villain so early in the film. Yet he doesn't just *poof* into a heroic, noble, hero, eager to do the Resistant's bidding. He has to grow first, and this makes us root for him even more. Despite his "It's the right thing to do.." comment he made to Poe early on, he's still deep down a frightened little man eager to run away from his troubles. Even into the Maz / cantina scene when he is trying to negotiate passage off the planet with another pilot...as an audience you understand his fear & internal conflict in deciding whether to do what's right for him, or right in general. Not until he witnesses Kylo carrying an unconscious Rey onto the ship does Finn really begin to transform into the true protagonist I feel he will be throughout the remainder of this trilogy. Watching him switch from always wanting to run away from the problem, to taking the lead in running towards it to save someone he obviously cares a whole lot for. This was a transition that was fun to watch...and it played out well.
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Tony Perkis
Well-Known Member
This is the single worst retort you could have come up with.
TyTrap
Well-Known Member
because you can't that's why. Go back to copying and pasting other people's opinions and using them as your own.