The Force Awakens - spoiler thread

[lazyboy97o]

because you can't that's why. Go back to copying and pasting other people's opinions and using them as your own.

So you've made a major motion picture?

 

[Tony Perkis]

Could you write and produce a better film than George Lucas? Honestly dude you sound like all the internet sheep that copy other people's opinions then use them as your own.

Or I have the critical thinking ability to identify aspects of filmmaking that warrant criticism. My complaints aren't nitpicking flaws; they're fundamental issues with the overarching problems present.

The films are turds. They are not good. Enjoy them all you want, but they have significant problems with them.

Your comebacks just reek of unintelligent defense of crappy films that have aged absolutely horribly.

 

[Tony Perkis]

So you've made a major motion picture?

You don't get it. If you like a film, you don't have to provide reasons why. If you dislike it and can explain why, it's invalid because you haven't made a film yourself.

 

[TyTrap]

People always crap on georges work but he's the guy that created this franchise. So whose to say his vision is wrong? at the end of the day film is an art form and regardless of what's good or bad it's still art. I may not like force awakens as much but that's still art. There's no rules in art you just create. And George created Star Wars and without him we wouldn't have it. I play in a band and write music I can relate to George on an artistic level. Not everyone's going to like your stuff and be super critical. But at the end of the day he's still cashing big checks.

 

[Tony Perkis]

People always crap on georges work but he's the guy that created this franchise. So whose to say his vision is wrong? at the end of the day film is an art form and regardless of what's good or bad it's still art. I may not like force awakens as much but that's still art. There's no rules in art you just create. And George created Star Wars and without him we wouldn't have it. I play in a band and write music I can relate to George on an artistic level. Not everyone's going to like your stuff and be super critical. But at the end of the day he's still cashing big checks.

So an entire generation falls in love with a product he creates. Years later, he updates his vision. However, from that point on, he denies those fans the version of his art they fell in love with. He basically tells them that the version they love is incorrect and they're wrong, and the special edition edits are the only version from now on.

That's ok with you?

 

[TyTrap]

So you've made a major motion picture?

So an entire generation falls in love with a product he creates. Years later, he updates his vision. However, from that point on, he denies those fans the version of his art they fell in love with. He basically tells them that the version they love is incorrect and they're wrong, and the special edition edits are the only version from now on.

That's ok with you?

im talking about the prequels. from my perspective I felt that the prequels didn't feel contrived like he was trying to just fan service everyone. I can appreciate that. It was a story he wanted to tell and he told it his way. Was it lousey to a lot of people. Yea it was.

 

[Tony Perkis]

im talking about the prequels. from my perspective I felt that the prequels didn't feel contrived like he was trying to just fan service everyone. I can appreciate that. It was a story he wanted to tell and he told it his way. Was it lousey to a lot of people. Yea it was.

I'm not even sure I agree with that. According to the prequels:

• Anakin Skywalker created C3PO (which is ridiculous, considering protocol droids were in existence anyway).
• The one droid that saved the fleeing Naboo ship from being blasted by the blockade? R2D2.
• Young Greedo hanging out with Anakin when he was fixing his pod racer
• "I have a bad feeling about this."
• Young Boba Fett in Attack of the Clones
• The mere fact that Chewbacca is in Revenge of the Sith. He actually served 0 purpose in that film.

These are just off the top of my head. There are plenty of fan service moments in the prequels, just as there are in the new film. The difference is the new film utilized a plot that was meant to reintroduce the series and erase the bad taste left in peoples' mouths while simultaneously introducing the series and potential new plots/characters to a new generation. The prequels had poor stories mixed with fan service.

 

[TyTrap]

I'm not even sure I agree with that. According to the prequels:

• Anakin Skywalker created C3PO (which is ridiculous, considering protocol droids were in existence anyway).
• The one droid that saved the fleeing Naboo ship from being blasted by the blockade? R2D2.
• Young Greedo hanging out with Anakin when he was fixing his pod racer
• "I have a bad feeling about this."
• Young Boba Fett in Attack of the Clones
• The mere fact that Chewbacca is in Revenge of the Sith. He actually served 0 purpose in that film.

These are just off the top of my head. There are plenty of fan service moments in the prequels, just as there are in the new film. The difference is the new film utilized a plot that was meant to reintroduce the series and erase the bad taste left in peoples' mouths while simultaneously introducing the series and potential new plots/characters to a new generation. The prequels had poor stories mixed with fan service.

im genuinely curious about your opinion on fight choreography. You said the prequels fight choreography was emotionless and lacked consequence. I believe when watching films you're supposed to check your disbelief at the door before going into it. Just because the choreography looked "flashy" doesn't mean there wasn't any consequences for the characters involved in the sequence it just meant the one in charge of putting the saber battles together had a different and unique vision. I get it though, people like you probably feel they are using flashy fight choreography to compensate for the fact that their story is lacking. Why would you need fun and exciting fight choreography when you can just have the characters quip each other to death lol.

 

[Tony Perkis]

im genuinely curious about your opinion on fight choreography. You said the prequels fight choreography was emotionless and lacked consequence. I believe when watching films you're supposed to check your disbelief at the door before going into it. Just because the choreography looked "flashy" doesn't mean there wasn't any consequences for the characters involved in the sequence it just meant the one in charge of putting the saber battles together had a different and unique vision. I get it though, people like you probably feel they are using flashy fight choreography to compensate for the fact that their story is lacking. Why would you need fun and exciting fight choreography when you can just have the characters quip each other to death lol.

Because it didn't look like fighting. It looked like dancing. It was heavily choreographed, and every fighting participant knew the next move every step of the way. It was clearly planned and staged.

Fighting for the sake of fighting, action for the sake of action is boring. If I don't care about the characters, then the action scenes are just filler. So if the film does a poor job of creating likable characters before the fight, it better do so during the fight. The prequels did neither.

There was never the threat that any of the main participants in the fight were going to die. It was flashy for the sake of flashy. Whenever somebody swung their saber, there was never the concern that this would be the final blow. We knew it would be expertly defended against. It was just far to synchronized.

Look at the final fight in The Force Awakens and Return of the Jedi. Clearly less staged, much more emotionally driven. Every swing is meant to inflict damage. It could look clumsy and clunky, but that's because these fights are meant to cause dire effects. These characters want the other one truly defeated. People get hurt, people get tired, and they have to maneuver around the damages they do to their surroundings. It's intense, the consequences are known, and the tension is real because every swing could be the final blow.

The action in the prequels may look cool, but that's because they were designed to look cool. It was dancing, acting, staging at its finest, but they were never emotionally driven. It's empty action. It's bright lights and fast movements, but without any semblance of character motivation to outwit and outgain the opponent.

 

[flynnibus]

Right, no similarity at all to "A New Hope"

1. There’s a droid carrying valuable information who finds himself on a desolate desert planet.

2. There’s a Force-sensitive, masked, and darkly clothed antagonist who arrives on the scene shortly after the information is handed off, looking for the droid.

3. There’s a desert settlement that is wiped out by stormtroopers.

4. There’s a hero who’s tortured by the bad guys to retrieve the information.

5. There’s a lonely, Force-strong desert dweller who dreams of more.

6. There’s a worldly old warrior who has to explain the Force to the next generation.

7. There’s a cruel military officer who holds a comparable level of authority to his Force-sensitive, masked, and darkly clothed colleague.

8. There’s a mostly unseen supreme evil that’s pulling the strings from the shadows.

9. There’s a criminal element that’s owed a debt by Han Solo and attempts to kill him after he screws up their arrangement.

10. There’s a cantina filled with various alien creatures.

11. There’s a moment when one of the heroes abandons the fight as a self-preservation measure, but he eventually returns.

12. There’s a massive spherical weapon that’s used to destroy a planet.

13. There’s a base belonging to the rebel forces on a forest-covered world.

14. There’s a surrogate father figure who is cut down by someone previously close to him, who has turned to the dark side.

15. The hero watches helplessly from afar as the surrogate father figure is slayed.

16. There’s a coordinated aerial attack on the massive spherical weapon that’s monitored from a control room by Leia.

17. There’s a trench that X-wings flew through in order to fire on a vulnerability in the weapon and destroy it.

18. There’s a massive explosion that gives the rebels a major victory but likely allows the Force-sensitive, masked, and darkly clothed antagonist to survive to fight another day.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/19/star-wars-force-awakens-new-hope-similarities


JJ had an entire Universe to work with and all he could muster was a remake? Even worse, all the people gushing over this movie doesn't bode well for the next one. We've certainly lowered our standards. I think it's so much about wanting this movie to be worthy, many have convinced themselves it is.

For me, the best Star Wars movie to come out since Empire is Guardians of the Galaxy. That movie created the excitement, wonder and good feeling of the first 2 Star Wars much better than the next 4 and this unimaginative money grab.

Finally saw it tonight... And the amount of story "borrowing" was distracting and the lowest point of the film for me. I mean you expect some nods... But the direct lifts are disappointing. They did it with Star Trek too. (Reactor scene with Spock)

It made it feel like they were trying for a reboot more than simply telling the next story in the universe.

It was a good movie... And I think was the right formula.... Minus the borrowing... But I think both guardians and avengers were better overall movies and actually had me more amped when the credits rolled.

 

[flynnibus]

Great post - I agree with everything here. The musical score was underwhelming. I like your ending better - in fact I was sure Luke would appear during that battle.

I sum it up as 'safe'

Not having listened to it track by track... It just seemed like we had far more recycled tunes rather than new songs in the same spirit. Music usually resonates with more repeated exposures... But it didn't jump out to me in the first showing. Disappointing given we are blessed that JW is still with us and capable of new memories

 

[flynnibus]

Oh, you mean Kylo Ren maybe wasn't fighting at top condition after being shot by an explosive round to the hip?

Many are already theorizing that the people who don't like Kylo Ren's supposed "wimpiness" are generally men with similar insecurities.

If you don't think Adam Driver at all resembles a child born of Harrison Ford or Carrie Fischer, I don't know what to tell you. But I will say there's plenty of women who would disagree with your attractiveness assessment.

He looked like snape's kid.... Not indy's

 

[flynnibus]

That is a little too on the nose don't you think? If they were twins, given to Luke to train (and we know Ren was), don't you think the parents would recognize her? Please don't say that they wouldn't or that they are "keeping it a secret" because that is just weak.



Many people are just silly then. She was nothing like Yoda. At all. Okay, maybe the height thing, but that's it. Yoda was a wise Jedi sage living in seclusion to hide and reflect on past mistakes made. Maz ran a smuggler's den and was not a force wielder of any kind. She showed little sage wisdom other than a keen intuition. The two characters couldn't have been more different. Those that think she was like Yoda are people that are new to the franchise and suddenly think they know all about it. I listened to two morons sitting in the theater yesterday yammering on about all sorts of things Star Wars and not one d**n thing they said was even close to accurate.

If you don't see the parallels they put in max and yoda... Open your eyes

Ancient, knowledge resource
Sees things in people... Keen intuition
Plays role of exposing characters to their past and destinies
Small size
Does the same close your eyes and seek/elaborate move...
Does the same inspect and judge move when meeting someone
Plays similar pivot point in story

It's less obvious than many of the other glaring lifts... But still there

 

[flynnibus]

This is something that I thing that I think some people might be missing. Kylo has power, but he seems very undisciplined. I don't recall him using any force powers during the light saber duel. He may not be able to fight and focus on using his powers at the same time.

Yet he completely dominates in every encounter previously... The battle wound just gets put in the huge bin of SW inconsistencies. Where else have we seen blood from blasters injuries?

What I found odd in the character was that the general had no fear of him at all and openly jockeyed for favor in front of the supreme leader right in kylo's face. I get that they are playing up the same 'emperor's pet' angle Vader was... But kylo's power balance certainly is inconsistent

 

[Disney Analyst]

I've seen a lot of people talk about the similarities. I kind of actually enjoyed that... it shows how in reality, history often repeats itself (which kind of cuts close to home with whats happening right now with refugees and certain american republican candidates acting like a certain fascist dictator)... There were enough differences to make it new and exciting (for me at least). But it truly parallels real world history, which has a knack of repeating itself.

It really doesn't seem outlandish for these truly evil people to emulate and look up to the previous empire and Darth Vader so much, that they would make similar choices and mistakes years and years later. And take whoever they can find who has the force at their disposal (whether they are gifted, trained, or just plain emotionally unstable) and try to make him Vader 2.0. ...

Now we have setup a great new start, with plenty of new things that will happen in the next two episodes.

 

[flynnibus]

The rehashes eventually become tired and forced. Like Ryn watching the Han fight from a distance (like Luke watching obi wan's death)

Eventually you end up with revisionist garbage like you saw in potc. A few simple nods become rewriting history

 

[FigmentForver96]

Have to say I loved it. The story is great beginning to end. At first I was a little worried about the beginning and how it was similar to New Hope, but even some of the similarities are explained. The best being the planet where most saw it as a copy of the Death Star. Then showing the Death Star and explaining why the new station is more superior. Some other things I liked:

1: Kylo Ren is not all bad. He knows what is right but cant fully turn to the dark side either yet he is truly being pulled hard in that direction. The emotional tantrums he has throughout the film also show his almost lack of strength and confidence.

2: When first meting Rey it almost was like a rehash of Luke. I felt like they were going to copy his personality of wanting to see new places. I really liked how she was the other side of the spectrum and in fact DID NOT want to leave but even wanted to go back.

3: The lightsaber duel at the end was much more realistic then I thought it was going to be. I was worried Rey would discover the "force" and would beat Kylo's butt. Instead, their lack of training really showed with Kylo being a little more controlled verses Rey who was randomly swinging most of the time.

4: Overall most of the borrowing to me seemed ok in the fact a new and fresh story was created. New characters mixed with old ones made an fresh experience that destroyed the prequels in every way and (personally) made it in with classic Star Wars.

 

[G00fyDad]

If you don't see the parallels they put in max and yoda... Open your eyes

Ancient, knowledge resource
Sees things in people... Keen intuition
Plays role of exposing characters to their past and destinies
Small size
Does the same close your eyes and seek/elaborate move...
Does the same inspect and judge move when meeting someone
Plays similar pivot point in story

It's less obvious than many of the other glaring lifts... But still there

Nope. Still not seeing it. I think you're wanting to see it so you are assigning too many similarities that just aren't there. You may as well compare Jabba to Yoda.

 

[FoozieBear]

Fighting for the sake of fighting, action for the sake of action is boring. If I don't care about the characters, then the action scenes are just filler. So if the film does a poor job of creating likable characters before the fight, it better do so during the fight. The prequels did neither. nt.

I love this quote so much and its something that bugs me about modern action films. I can't stand to watch the same car chases and exploding buildings if there is no character driven emotion or the stakes aren't raised. Without a good story and likeable characters, the fight sequences are just dull in my opinion.

 

[flynnibus]

Nope. Still not seeing it. I think you're wanting to see it so you are assigning too many similarities that just aren't there. You may as well compare Jabba to Yoda.

Well I can lead the horse to water....

I guess you'll just have to suffer for the next 18m while everyone else discusses things you don't see