The "Disney Look"

[flashinghelmet]

Actually, international CMs can have their national flag placed on their nametag. US citizens were optionally allowed to wear a flag pin after the events on 9/11. While the flag nametags are still very prevalent, especially with international college program CMs and in Epcot, few Amercan flag pins are worn today.
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ACTUALLY, that isn't true at all. You aren't allowed your flag. I was a cast member there earlier this year, and argued my case about it. The response quite frankly, was rather xenophobic.

 

[cblodg]

To my knowledge African Americans are allowed to wear corn rows...and THAT doesn't violate the "theming" that some people are talking about? Just cause its something that maybe your not used to seeing everyday doesn't mean it violates "theming"

They are allowed to wear corn rows; however, there are EXTREMELY strict ways in which they may do so. I've read the regs on hair and facial hair and they are very clear. Disney would try to make an exception if the employee goes through the right channels.

Good Lord, if you read the regs there are even certain decorums that have to be kept when not "on stage" for every employee on duty or not.

 

[cblodg]

Actually, I did not miss the point. Someone previously had mentioned about how younger people think they should get whatever they want, etc. I was answering her(?) post.

danna

Uh.. that would be me. HIM is correct here.

The comments I made were to add to this discussion. I worked for a company that started to enforce very strict rules, and the younger "kids" really took exception to these rules being enforced. Mind you, they were always on the books. I was the team leader so all of these complaints had to go through me. I could choose to fight the company, or break the bad news.

I chose to break the bad news, as I felt it was high time that some professional decorum was returned to the area that I worked in. I didn't do this because I was affraid to loose my job, I did so because it was enforcing rules that had been pushed to the wayside and carried too far by some. For example, when we hired this one girl (I think she was 25) she was very well kept in that there were no wierd peircings or clothing or what have you. As time went on she changed her appearence to the point where she eventually eneded up with multi-colored hair, multiple earing, nose ring, lip ring, and tung ring. Her ears were guaged so there were huge holes, so on and so on. As I said, this happened over time. When the company finally got to her and asked her to get back to a professional look, she FLIPPED out saying that "we were stifling her freedom of expression!" I then pulled her off to the side and informed her of the dress code policy. She aksed why she wasn't informed while these changes were happening. I told her that the company knew of the changes she was making, but for the most part they were not terrible. It wasn't until she had huge holes in her ears, and multi colored hair that they took notice and concern.

She still couldn't understand why she had to change her appearance back. I gave her a copy of the employee hand book that had her signature on it, stating that she read it, and showed her the dress and decorum policy. I gave her one day to get in compliance with these standards, or she would be let go. Two days later, she was more over-the-top then ever before. My boss saw her and fired her on the spot.

So my comments were not just for this one indevidual that Disney is dealing with. I have read the regs and if he agreed to them (there are pages and pages and pages of what can and can't be worn by CMs) and later decides to change his appearance, he is in violation of his contract and doesn't have a leg to stand on in court should he pursue this issue further.

 

[DisneyLeo18]

so disney has regulations big deal, so does every job. i have no problem with disney not hiring some one because they will not follow the dress code. if they want to have that code they cant be willing to make exceptions.

heck even the NY yankees have a code where the players cannot have facial hair (a mustache is allowed though), their hair cannot be longer than a certain length and tattoos cannot show. i once was in the yankee dugout with my hat on backwards and was told it needs to be turned around as you are not allowed to wear a yankee hat backwards. of course this was not a job but you can see every company has regulations.

 

[nmj91385]

This has turned out to be ridiculous! Wearing a wedding ring detracts from the theming? I can honestly say after 20 some trips I have never even noticed if somebody was wearing a ring or not. This is being too critical.

The whole turban argument. It's a choice to take the job. The guidelines are all in place ahead of time. Someone stated earlier that nowhere in any religious writing does it say that a turban has to be worn. It is part of thier beliefs.

If disney does allow wedding rings and the American flag, good for them. These are the social norms in the US and if you don't like it, get out!

 

[Fr0g]

Just be happy that Disney doesnt hire anyone that their religion dictates that they work naked and scream 'A;DLFJKAD;FLKJSDF;LKJDF' every 2 hours. Or would this be discrimination also? .

 

[cpeterstx]

Hello Everyone,

Being an HR geek, I can tell you that this is not an uncommon occurence for U.S. employers. In general, an employer is expected to honor a religious accommodation when it doesn't cause an undue hardship financially or interfere with the brand or reputation of the employer.

The type of accommodation descriped by the OP is lumped into the same category as someone telling an employer that they can't work on such and such days because of religious conviction.

Employers are not required to honor such requests if both the employer and the employee were aware at the time of hire that all employees are required to have 7-day a week schedule availability. For this case, specifically, the question is, did the candidate know that Disney does not allow head coverings and/or facial hair at the time of hire???

 

[flashinghelmet]

The whole turban argument. It's a choice to take the job. The guidelines are all in place ahead of time. Someone stated earlier that nowhere in any religious writing does it say that a turban has to be worn. It is part of thier beliefs!

Actually you're wrong. The person said, in Islam a turban is not in religious writing. This man is sikh, where it is a religious demand.

If disney does allow wedding rings and the American flag, good for them. These are the social norms in the US and if you don't like it, get out!

Ah pure xenophobia and racism at it's greatest. Is it any reason why the US has the reputation it does? The social ''norms'' are anything but that. Your country was founded on immigration. Where nationalities and people of many different religions came over to find a new life. It's amazing that so many people founded this nation to overcome the religious persecution in their homelands, and yet the country became almost the greatest country for persecuting its own citizens.

How is wearing an american flag pin possibly a social norm? It's a rather pathetic attempt to show pride and patriotism, which barely hides the undertones. Does wearing a pin suddenly mean that you respect those who have died and you need not doing anything else? It says it all when Obama is abused for not wearing a pin. As if he is suddenly un-american and doesnt care about his country, simply because he doesnt wear a flag. It's ridiculous.

I was working at Disney as a cultural representative. I was brought over there to try and enable americans to understand a little bit more about other cultures, something which is clearly need. Disney World isnt a shining example of America. It is a place of hundreds of different nationalities that come together for fun, happiness and just to get along. If Disney genuinely hires people as cultural representatives, then they should honour this. When i would guess about half the workers in Disney weren't born in the US, they should damn well respect and make allowances for other cultures. And so should you.

But instead, internationals who come over are treated like crap. They have less opportunities, less freedoms, less respect, than their peers. Disney treats them as cheap labour and nothing more.

Your attitude of 'get out if you dont like it' is so offensive and pathetic it's untrue. Especially seeing as our good Sikh friend is in fact, an American. Land of the Free, eh?

 

[XaiChai]

This has turned out to be ridiculous! Wearing a wedding ring detracts from the theming? I can honestly say after 20 some trips I have never even noticed if somebody was wearing a ring or not. This is being too critical.

The whole turban argument. It's a choice to take the job. The guidelines are all in place ahead of time. Someone stated earlier that nowhere in any religious writing does it say that a turban has to be worn. It is part of thier beliefs.

If disney does allow wedding rings and the American flag, good for them. These are the social norms in the US and if you don't like it, get out!

well, for Muslims its not necessary for a turban to be worn, but for sikhs it is. Please don't start bringing the "if you don't like it, get out!" card...cause I find it ridiculous (and rather xenophobic). I think that you should be allowed to practice your religion and do your job as well.

 

[XaiChai]

Actually you're wrong. The person said, in Islam a turban is not in religious writing. This man is sikh, where it is a religious demand.




Ah pure xenophobia and racism at it's greatest. Is it any reason why the US has the reputation it does? The social ''norms'' are anything but that. Your country was founded on immigration. Where nationalities and people of many different religions came over to find a new life. It's amazing that so many people founded this nation to overcome the religious persecution in their homelands, and yet the country became almost the greatest country for persecuting its own citizens.

How is wearing an american flag pin possibly a social norm? It's a rather pathetic attempt to show pride and patriotism, which barely hides the undertones. Does wearing a pin suddenly mean that you respect those who have died and you need not doing anything else? It says it all when Obama is abused for not wearing a pin. As if he is suddenly un-american and doesnt care about his country, simply because he doesnt wear a flag. It's ridiculous.

I was working at Disney as a cultural representative. I was brought over there to try and enable americans to understand a little bit more about other cultures, something which is clearly need. Disney World isnt a shining example of America. It is a place of hundreds of different nationalities that come together for fun, happiness and just to get along. If Disney genuinely hires people as cultural representatives, then they should honour this. When i would guess about half the workers in Disney weren't born in the US, they should damn well respect and make allowances for other cultures. And so should you.

But instead, internationals who come over are treated like crap. They have less opportunities, less freedoms, less respect, than their peers. Disney treats them as cheap labour and nothing more.

Your attitude of 'get out if you dont like it' is so offensive and pathetic it's untrue. Especially seeing as our good Sikh friend is in fact, an American. Land of the Free, eh?

I totally agree with you on this one...I was trying not to get flustered so thankfully you were able to say all the things I was thinking of.

 

[krankenstein]

Although the Disney company is publically traded, it is still owned by private citizens (stockholders), which makes it a private company vs a government owned/controlled one.

I'm sorry, but this wrong. A public company is a firm that has sold off a portion of it's ownership to the public through the sale of stock. A private company is owned and operated by a few individuals or a family. That's it, no way to manipulate the definitions. The fact is when Disney decided to sale off a portion of it's ownership though stocks it became a public company. I respect you The Mom, but you are wrong with this statement.

 

[Eyorefan]

Ah pure xenophobia and racism at it's greatest. Is it any reason why the US has the reputation it does? The social ''norms'' are anything but that. Your country was founded on immigration. Where nationalities and people of many different religions came over to find a new life. It's amazing that so many people founded this nation to overcome the religious persecution in their homelands, and yet the country became almost the greatest country for persecuting its own citizens.

How is wearing an american flag pin possibly a social norm? It's a rather pathetic attempt to show pride and patriotism, which barely hides the undertones. Does wearing a pin suddenly mean that you respect those who have died and you need not doing anything else? It says it all when Obama is abused for not wearing a pin. As if he is suddenly un-american and doesnt care about his country, simply because he doesnt wear a flag. It's ridiculous.

I was working at Disney as a cultural representative. I was brought over there to try and enable americans to understand a little bit more about other cultures, something which is clearly need. Disney World isnt a shining example of America. It is a place of hundreds of different nationalities that come together for fun, happiness and just to get along. If Disney genuinely hires people as cultural representatives, then they should honour this. When i would guess about half the workers in Disney weren't born in the US, they should damn well respect and make allowances for other cultures. And so should you.

But instead, internationals who come over are treated like crap. They have less opportunities, less freedoms, less respect, than their peers. Disney treats them as cheap labour and nothing more.

Your attitude of 'get out if you dont like it' is so offensive and pathetic it's untrue. Especially seeing as our good Sikh friend is in fact, an American. Land of the Free, eh?

That's funny because I have heard a lot of former CPs who complained about being used as nothing more than cheap labor and being treated like crap. I doubt any them cared about wearing an American flag pin though.
On the original topic though (and I stated this before) Disney is able to tell a Sikh who is applying for a job working on stage that in order to take the job he must adhere to the "Disney look" because that look is not just a dress code it is part of the Disney BRAND. The courts have upheld the this idea in other cases against other companies.

For example, I would never be caught dead wearing cut off shorts and shirt that shows my stomach. I think its gross and demeaning to women. I would never be able to be a waitress at a Hooters restaurant. Because demeaning women is part of the Hooters BRAND. I don't like it so I don't eat there and I will never apply for a job there.

Now, does this mean that the American courts, by allowing a company to be run this way is persecuting women with self respect? No. They are allowing people to run their business in a way that may offended some people, but others find it entertaining. You may be offended by not being able to wear your flag pin, but Disney as a company with a BRAND to protect has the right to determine the image of that BRAND if they decided they want to xenophobic, no matter how insane it makes them seem, they have the right to do it.

As far as America repressing their citizens... I'll keep that in mind while as a never married single mom I send my daughter to really good schools and hold down a good paying job in large law firm. Something that I would never be able to do in most countries. Is it perfect? No, but it's hardly "[become] almost the greatest country for persecuting its own citizens."

 

[robhedin]

So you are telling me, that if a muslim were working at NASA, he wouldn't wear his turban?

If someone were to want to work at NASA and go into space, yes, he would be required to shave his facial hair, cut is hair, and remove his turban. This is because that specific job requires it. Other jobs at NASA may not have that requirement.

In this case, the person is a musician and the only place Disney needs musicians is in front of an audience, and therefore also requires that certain conditions be met.

The issue here is not about "where else could he work", but rather that *for the job he is applying for* there are no non-customer facing roles nor costumed customer facing roles that could accomodate his requirements.

rob.

 

[The Mom]

I'm sorry, but this wrong. A public company is a firm that has sold off a portion of it's ownership to the public through the sale of stock. A private company is owned and operated by a few individuals or a family. That's it, no way to manipulate the definitions. The fact is when Disney decided to sale off a portion of it's ownership though stocks it became a public company. I respect you The Mom, but you are wrong with this statement.

Public in a business sense, but not in a government sense. It is not a government company/property, such as a school, public library, etc. It is still, as far as I know, private property, vs a State or City park

People were arguing about whether or not a private company can make rules regarding dress, etc and most of them were thinking in terms of government vs non-government. Although, not all were.

 

[krankenstein]

Public in a business sense, but not in a government sense. It is not a government company/property, such as a school, public library, etc. It is still, as far as I know, private property, vs a State or City park

People were arguing about whether or not a private company can make rules regarding dress, etc and most of them were thinking in terms of government vs non-government. Although, not all were.

Gotcha! Our terminology was getting crossed. When I read your post the business school in me came out!

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Actually you're wrong. The person said, in Islam a turban is not in religious writing. This man is sikh, where it is a religious demand.




Ah pure xenophobia and racism at it's greatest. Is it any reason why the US has the reputation it does? The social ''norms'' are anything but that. Your country was founded on immigration. Where nationalities and people of many different religions came over to find a new life. It's amazing that so many people founded this nation to overcome the religious persecution in their homelands, and yet the country became almost the greatest country for persecuting its own citizens. please!

While I am embarrassed at those Americans that take this approach, in my travels of the world, I find just as much bigotry, racism and sexism shared across all borders. We don't have that market cornered. If anything we are more guilty and apologetic about it than many!

Yes many came to escape religious persecution (of their religion), but made no claim to wanting to accept others as part of their new freedoms.

How is wearing an american flag pin possibly a social norm? It's a rather pathetic attempt to show pride and patriotism, which barely hides the undertones. Does wearing a pin suddenly mean that you respect those who have died and you need not doing anything else? It says it all when Obama is abused for not wearing a pin. As if he is suddenly un-american and doesnt care about his country, simply because he doesnt wear a flag. It's ridiculous.

I was working at Disney as a cultural representative. I was brought over there to try and enable americans to understand a little bit more about other cultures, something which is clearly need. Disney World isnt a shining example of America. It is a place of hundreds of different nationalities that come together for fun, happiness and just to get along. If Disney genuinely hires people as cultural representatives, then they should honour this. When i would guess about half the workers in Disney weren't born in the US, they should damn well respect and make allowances for other cultures. And so should you.



But instead, internationals who come over are treated like crap. They have less opportunities, less freedoms, less respect, than their peers. Disney treats them as cheap labour and nothing more. [/B][/B]

Cultural representatives are present in Epcot and a few special entertainment venues. I don't believe general CM's are meant to serve as "cultural representatives".I think you will find that CP's, part time CM's...and many CM's in general make the same claim...so don't think Internationals are treated worse/differently than the average CM.

Your attitude of 'get out if you dont like it' is so offensive and pathetic it's untrue. Especially seeing as our good Sikh friend is in fact, an American. Land of the Free, eh?

While you make good points, many of which I can agree with...your venom on certain topics...including more than hints at "you ugly Americans" theme leaves your post closer to the other xenophobe than it could have been...

 

[teebin]

I'm sorry, but this wrong. A public company is a firm that has sold off a portion of it's ownership to the public through the sale of stock. A private company is owned and operated by a few individuals or a family. That's it, no way to manipulate the definitions. The fact is when Disney decided to sale off a portion of it's ownership though stocks it became a public company. I respect you The Mom, but you are wrong with this statement.

Thank you. My overall point is that because it is publicly traded different federal laws tend to kick in that wouldn't otherwise be in place for a privately held corp.

 

[The Mom]

Thank you. My overall point is that because it is publicly traded different federal laws tend to kick in that wouldn't otherwise be in place for a privately held corp.

I guess this is the argument, in a nutshell. What is the definition of, in this case, discrimination based on religion. They have not denied employment because of his religion, per se, but based upon a religious requirement which clashes with their employment rules.

The, the issue becomes, what accomodations/exceptions should they make to their employee rules in order to fulfill the letter of the law? If everyone could agree on the law, we wouldn't need any lawyers. (or at least not as many)

For instance, I once briefly worked with a nurse whose religion required a woman to remain "pure" until marriage, no exceptions. This included not seeing or touching a naked man, and she refused to compromise her belief that this was a sin that would condemn her to Hell.

Unfortunately, she was in the nursing field, on a neurosurgical unit (read patients in comas, head injuries, paralyzed, etc) and this put an undo burden on the other nurses, along with compromising patient safety. This was long before the phrase "politcally correct" came into existance. She was forced to resign or be fired, as the hospital did not have any openings in either outpatient or pediatrics at the time. I believe she was able to get a position at a nearby Women's & Infants hospital.

This is not on the same level, as no one would be unduly burdened or endangered by WDW "relaxing" the rules in order to accomodate this man's religious requirements. But I can also see where making exceptions might lead to more and more challenges in the future, which will require more exceptions on WDW's part, or more lawsuits.

As a fair-minded human (at least I try to be), I say many of the social changes we see today would not have happened without someone challenging the status quo. As a consumer, I know that companies will pass the cost on to me.

 

[cpeterstx]

I'll leave you lot to ruminate while I run and hide in a bomb shelter... it could get ugly.

I think you made a wise choice to run down to the bomb shelter.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to find a hornet nest and start hitting it with a stick.

 

[comics101]

Ah pure xenophobia and racism at it's greatest. Is it any reason why the US has the reputation it does? The social ''norms'' are anything but that. Your country was founded on immigration. Where nationalities and people of many different religions came over to find a new life. It's amazing that so many people founded this nation to overcome the religious persecution in their homelands, and yet the country became almost the greatest country for persecuting its own citizens.

How is wearing an american flag pin possibly a social norm? It's a rather pathetic attempt to show pride and patriotism, which barely hides the undertones. Does wearing a pin suddenly mean that you respect those who have died and you need not doing anything else? It says it all when Obama is abused for not wearing a pin. As if he is suddenly un-american and doesnt care about his country, simply because he doesnt wear a flag. It's ridiculous.

I was working at Disney as a cultural representative. I was brought over there to try and enable americans to understand a little bit more about other cultures, something which is clearly need. Disney World isnt a shining example of America. It is a place of hundreds of different nationalities that come together for fun, happiness and just to get along. If Disney genuinely hires people as cultural representatives, then they should honour this. When i would guess about half the workers in Disney weren't born in the US, they should damn well respect and make allowances for other cultures. And so should you.

But instead, internationals who come over are treated like crap. They have less opportunities, less freedoms, less respect, than their peers. Disney treats them as cheap labour and nothing more.

Your attitude of 'get out if you dont like it' is so offensive and pathetic it's untrue. Especially seeing as our good Sikh friend is in fact, an American. Land of the Free, eh?

First off, wearing a lapel pin has become the norm because all those different nationalities that we Americans "hate" so much are proud of this country, and are proud to be apart of it. The majority of Americans know that not all muslims or middle eastern people are terrorists or are evil. Very few Americans persecute any Americans, in fact, most Americans stand up for eachother and help out whenever they can. 9/11 is a great example of this.

I believe the pin thing is a non-issue, but to answer the question about if wearing one means you respect those who die for our freedoms, it certainly does. The reason Obama is attacked is because of a couple of other things combined with that.

For your next point, you're right, We should respect other cultures and nationalites, and if you pay any attention to facts we respect other cultures a tad too much. Political correctness is at an all time high here, and it's a scary thing.

You need fresh air if you honestly believe we in America treat other nationalites like crap. Once again, go look up some FACTS.


I would argue the reason the US has a bad rep is bc of the lack of free media outside of our country. Most media outside of the US is controlled by government. I think alot of negitivity comes from jealousy, and also from hatred due to economic sitiuations such as socialism.

We shouldn't allow cultures to come and and completely change the American way. I'm not saying they can't add to it, but that's what the American way is. How many other places in the world can you find so many different people living togeather side by side in harmony. Some times mistakes are made, but we do our best to correct them. This man has a right to make a living, however, Disney has a right to set rules and regulations.