The Chit Chat Chit Chat Thread

[StarWarsGirl]

Seriously? I take one day off work and there are 60 emails for me?

Good grief.

 

[Elsa]

 

[Gabe1]

Tens of millions of women choose to uphold these customs for a lot more reasons than "so my man can control me". In fact, you'll find most Muslim women do choose to wear the veil for the sake of modesty before God (same as Catholics covering their hair). Tens of millions of women choose to wear a veil on their wedding day because they find it pretty, or they want to look like their mom did, or they just like them, not because "my dad needs to pass me onto my husband as a possession".

Women can fight for equality without tearing other women down for making different choices than they would have made.

It is History. The History and Customs of Religion. Yeah, I wrestle with the wearing any turning any religious item into a fashion statement. My thoughts are for the 'origins' or customs for woman and woman really not having choices even out of my era. It was required to be educated in Catholic Church for me to wear a beanie atop my head 6 out of 7 days a week. I was required to be veiled for my First Communion and had to be veiled to be confirmed. I also had to wear gloves to mass. So basically Saturdays were the only day I was not required to have my head covered. And no I didn't enjoy it nor did I grasp what was being done to me from young and no I was given an opportunity to opt out. I did not have the choice to wear slacks and a simple shirt. The practice comes from the medieval times. The words actually come from Corinthians: Mans Head Belongs to Christ, Woman's head belongs to her husband and Christs head belongs to God. When entering the church veiled for marriage this is a the symbolism the church recognizes. I chose not to go before a Priest in Church veiled because I did not believe my head would belong to my husband. In my Church that is what that veil and the unveiling before God and witnesses signifies. I worked with my priest a forward thinking man and things were removed from the ceremony. The part about who gives this woman to this man...gone. The part of Honor and Obey...gone. Until death do us part...gone.

It wasn't until I started taking women's studies classes in college that I began to comprehend the origins and honestly cannot wrap my brain around them still. I would no more wear a veil, a hijab, niqab or a burqa as a fashion accessory anymore than I would a wear a Star of David necklace. They all have deep rooted religious meaning if we practice these religions or not. In my religion the veil is to be white as a statement and a public confirmation that the woman is indeed pure for marriage before God by the father (or man who is presenting the woman) to a man. The lifting of veil is the final step of turning over a woman to the husband that head of hers now belongs to the husband. In my world it was anything but a fashion statement. In church that veil has true religious meaning. There are rules and laws about veils. If a woman husband dies and she remarries a veil should not be worn for the second marriage as the woman is no longer "pure." My Nuns were covered from head to toe, including their hair because hair is considered to be part of their womanhood. Since Nuns are Married to Christ they were to be covered because their bodies and their heads belonged to Christ. In 1983 the 'covering laws' for woman of the Church were removed but were not changed, just omitted. The laws were left so they could or can reappear at anytime at the will of the Church Leadership in Rome. In very conservative parishes in the USA the requirement for heads to be covered by hats or veils has returned for woman and female children. If you are a female entering without your own covering you are handed a 12" x 12" lace square to wear on your head while within the church building.

I can accept that people do follow practices from being pure for marriage, that they do believe that their head belongs to their husbands, that a father does 'give' her to man but not even in my AARP years grasp all that, didn't almost 50 years ago and less now. I wear a cross and on the same chain a St. Francis medal. Have had them since my communion. I choose to wear these because it something I believe in which I believe is important to believe in what you are communicating to others.

 

[Gabe1]

Seriously? I take one day off work and there are 60 emails for me?

Good grief.

Part of my DDs job is to review negative surveys that her co-workers receive and determine if the complaints are warranted and if they are to talk to the colleague about what should have happened during the preadmission phase. In 2016 after our long trip to WDW she came back to hundreds. Just prior to leaving for our long 2017 trip she asked her boss to reassign that task to someone else in her vacation absence. When she returned she was stunned that the manager actually did give the task to someone else.

 

[Gabe1]

I haven't been out except to get my chest x-rayed. Doctor's office will call with the resultss hopefully later tonight or by tomorrow. My doc already called up to check on me.

My awesome mother took my car to the grocery store, filled it up with gas (I handed her my card), got me Starbucks, and bought avocados even though she doesn't like them. She also made ham and bean soup earlier this week, which is pretty much what I'm living on.

Docotr called back. Chest x-ray showed no pnumonia, thank goodness. So we shall take it a day at a time.

Jasmine keeps dragging up insulation from the utility room in the basement, so I think nuts is the correct word. You can't even tell she got spayed last week. She's pretty much back to normal. Although drugged kitten was pretty hilarious. At one point, she laid down next to her water fountain, stretched out, and got her foot in the water.

Happy to hear it isn't pneumonia! *happy dance*

 

[Gabe1]

This. I have zero problem with what other women choose to do with their weddings. I do, however, know how it would make me feel, and some of those old traditions would make me feel not good, and wouldn't sit well with me, so out they go. But if other women choose to go the traditional route, I have no issue with that.

My mom did the whole engagement ring thing and wore a veil (not one that covered her face), but her father didn't give her away, nor did she look for anyone else in her dad's place. I personally think for my own wedding it would be nicer for both my parents to walk down ahead of me, together themselves. Partly because I don't like the idea of my dad giving me to anyone, and partially because my relationship with my mom is so special that I want her to be a part of it too. Oh, and a tiara. Tiara would be nice in place if a veil. To each their own.

I like the idea of dual parents escorting their DD into the wedding ceremony. I never heard of that back when I was married but I would have done that I believe. My Dad did not give me away he was my escort into the service. There was not any mention of 'giving' me away.

I understand how you believe all that would make you feel you articulated that better than I did though I did go on to explain subsequently some of history and meanings to all that and why those traditional rituals would upset me as a woman. It is certainly the History dating back to the Medieval Times that unnerves me.

 

[Gabe1]

I got on the manufacturer's website and got on their savings program right away. They sent me a savings card through my email that I showed to the pharmacist. That immediately brought it down by $100. All I had you do was enter my name, address, and email for the savings card. I found another coupon just through Google, and then I used rewards points. The price dropped to $250; which included more prednisone. Saved $150, and it did help me get more open and was cheaper than an ER visit. I'd rather sleep in my own bed with Belle over my chest than in the ER. Which normally her on my chest for too long is annoying, but somehow it's helpful when I'm this tight.

Thanks for the info. I never knew to go to the manufactures website for savings. Duly noted.

 

[Gabe1]

As a man, might I wade in here for a bit. Until this week I never knew that veil thing was about that. Presentation really? Never occurred to me. I always just saw it as a tradition and as a Father felt that it wasn't control it was a complete relinquishing of control, if any existed to begin with. Yes, I felt I was handing over something that I treasured, not as a gift, but, as respect for her wishes to leave the bonding with her Father and Mother. Never once a present to a man to have as a possession. If that is what it actually meant to not only me, but, to them as well, we never would have done it. Tradition was all it was about. That's the way it is done with no formal explaination about what it all implied.

When my wife and I got married the chapel we were married in, did not have a center isle. What we did was I was escorted to the front of the chapel by my Mother and Father and she on the other side with her parents. We met in the middle and separated from our parents and went on to be a couple. No hidden ownership thoughts ever existed. It was just part of a ceremony and was symbolic yes, but, not in the sense you guys are talking about. Never even crossed our minds. And that would have been 46 years ago last week. Do people stay up nights trying to find a way to be offended?

When my oldest married, she copied our ceremony and had both sets of parents accompany their respective child to the alter. She even had the same entrance song that we did. The Hawaiian Wedding Song. Our and her exit song was the Wedding March. My youngest wanted to do a more traditional set up where I escorted her down the isle. I know I never thought of it as control or presentation, but, instead just a last chance to hold on to my baby before she made her own life and if you knew her you would know that she would never be subservient to anyone, so I know that wasn't in the motivation anyplace.

I really feel terrible if in this day and age people really still consciously think of the wedding traditions as being anything other then a ceremony acted out as a way to have memories and a feeling of commitment to one another. I feel sorry that some of that would be blocked out due to unreal thoughts of what things currently represent. OK, I guess I have said enough. Parts of it even made my eyes water a bit, but that could be because of the chemicals I've been dumping in my eye because of the Cataract thing. So I'll shut up now.

You are not alone. There are not many who actually realize the history and symbolism of many things they are participating in. As you said wedding traditions as being anything other then a ceremony acted out. Genuinely many do not know what the long history of what it symbolizes. I'm Catholic. Many do not understand how deeply rich Catholicism is in history, tradition and symbolism. Church have not bended in these rules for Woman very often over 100s and 100s of years, as example a woman can not enter the Priesthood. Entire masses rich with symbolism.

I grasp get what being covered as a child was, I look at it as my brainwashing years. My Nuns would have knocked me to Kingdom Come if I dared to say NO! I'm not wearing that beanie on my head or not wearing those gloves to mass or if I took them off during Mass, it would have not been pretty. So many of Catholic customs for Woman mirror those of Eastern and Middle Eastern Cultures. I was in my early 20s when I took several Woman's studies courses and it was very enlightening to see the History behind the Wedding Ceremony still being executed today by many.

 

[Gabe1]

The bad news night shift has past the rumor stage, just waiting for official date. The good news is my dh is not getting laid off at midnight and will get paid on time.

Oy. That is rough. And reading on more Oy's. But Amen for being employeed. During the recession while both of my kids were in college the husband was brought down to 2.5 days per week, not laid off and insurance benefits remained intact. That was the beginning of when I saw him begin to 'change.' Saw the same thing happen to other men in that same timeframe. So happy he keeps his job. So sorry for you and induring that overnight thing and under foot.

Can you at least try and book a mini trip as a consolation prize?

 

[Gabe1]

And it's totally fine that you feel that way, and it's totally fine that others might stick with tradition, but if it doesn't sit right with someone, like many of the traditions don't sit well with me, if I choose to get married someday, shouldn't it really be my right to say, "I'm uncomfortable with this because of the history behind it, so I'm not including it in my wedding?"

It's not really staying up all night trying to be offended by something; it's deciding what you're comfortable with and going with it. For me, I know the history behind these wedding traditions, and it doesn't sit well with me. Women used to have dowrys, and their fathers used to approve of their husbands, and their husbands were given a dowry for them. Some of them weren't given the choice in who they would marry. Heck, in some parts of the world, they still don't. They literally were viewed as property, or fathers would arrange marriages for their own benefit. If I get married, I don't want any part of those old traditions that came from that era in my wedding. Picturing myself with a wedding like that sometimes literally makes my skin crawl. I want a wedding that represents a modern partnership that we're building. It's not being offended; it's choosing what's right for yourself.

That being said, if any of my girlfriends decided that they wanted a full blown big white traditional style wedding where they wore a full veil and they had their dad walk them down the aisle and they asked me to be a bridesmaid, you can bet I would be there supporting her, because it's also important to me that women have that choice.

Well said.

 

[Gabe1]

Having another happy dancing day! Mount laundry is done, I figured out what to make, got the pattern drawn and the fabric cut out, my house isn't too messy and the roads are clear enough to go have coffee/tea with the mom squad

Hmpf. I'm surprised you didn't have the manchild tackle Mt. Laundry over the weekend. How did you miss that?

 

[Gabe1]

Mrs F insisted i wear a veil ... something about not cracking the camera lens

I always knew I liked Mrs. Ferret!

 

[Gabe1]

So I might have a new job (not official until the ink is dried). Same place, Newport which sucks, but different department and more money.

I still want to go overseas because the job I'm going to is not a career starter.

I am happy you are employed. I'm happy it will bring more money. I will be happier for you when you are where your heart leads you here or overseas. Wish only the best for you.

My DD started Grad School this week. She is doing well in her career but she knows in her case she needs her masters to move forward. She has chosen one of the most academically challenging master programs as her goal. Of Course! She never took any easy road. The field qualifications have 900,000 deficit in candidates qualified to even apply to a career that will not disappear like My Space did. I'm proud of her desire to become more educated and me I take a deep breath. Here we go again. She is an 'all in' or 'out' type of person. It should be an interesting couple of years as she powers through all this. This is the kid that double majored and minored in 3.5 years cause she could do all that for the same tuition. Love her dearly but watching her makes me so tired.

I will send good karma for this position your future. *pixie dust* Want only the best for ya.

 

[Gabe1]

Good morning View attachment 257464

Dear Lord, I should go to bed before you get up.

 

[Gabe1]

14 days until Groundhog Day View attachment 257468

He better watch his judgement in a few weeks.

 

[Figgy1]

Good morning

 

[Figgy1]

13 days until Groundhog Day

 

[Figgy1]

 

[Figgy1]

 

[Figgy1]

^^^^^This! When I was in college, my vocal jazz group was on tour and we're sitting in the van and talking about future plans and I said I wanted to be a stay at home mom when I had kids and everyone started ragging on me about why was I in college if I wasn't going to use my degree, and anyway, I HAD to go out and work because women before me fought so hard to have the right to work and I would be dishonoring them if I didn't use it. My comment was that women fought to have the OPTION to work....forcing me to get a job when I want to be home for my family is no less a lack of freedom than forcing a woman to stay home when she wants to work. It's all about what you want for yourself. I didn't have kids as showpieces for someone else to raise in a daycare. I wanted to be there for all the firsts, and for everything...having a job outside the home would not be conducive to that. If someone else wants to get a job, great....do it! But that doesn't mean that I HAVE to because someone ELSE wanted that. We put entirely too much pressure on people to do what everyone else is doing instead of making their own decisions....you HAVE to get married, you HAVE to have children, you HAVE to have a career...why? Why does it matter to anyone else how I choose to spend my time and live my life?

Amen