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Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???

el_super

Well-Known Member
Months of not meeting with family or having to close businesses and be unemployed are also great causes of stress and deteriorating mental health. It's not just physical health we need to think of. Those who don't understand that these issues are also a big health risk are not looking at the whole picture.

I agree. This is a good argument for boosting mental health capacity though, not a convincing argument for reopening unsafe practices.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Doctors aren’t asking for more physical space. There isn’t enough staff.
Take the staff being assigned to Fairview, a facility that is just empty buildings, and reassign them to an Actual Hospital building, that was being used as the "Los Angeles Surge Hospital" earlier this year!

But then, if the owner of the LA Times wants to not shut down Filming converting a REAL Hospital to a pretend Hospital, one that has outdoor dining (catering) and has a lot of folks in close quarters indoors, that is just fine. But then, many other businesses are forced to close down.

Talking about a Double Standard!!!
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Instead we have an old Mental Hospital to be used as a Field Hospital that can only accept stabilized COVID patients.

But we can shut down many other businesses.

What is wrong with this picture?

What is wrong with this picture is, as I alluded to in another post, thinking you can set your kitchen on fire because you have a fire extinguisher nearby. Field hospitals, surge capacity, stressing healthcare workers ... these are all things to be avoided at all costs. Not an excuse to reopen your local Applebees for outdoor dining or open up more capacity for people to buy Chinese merchandise from World of Disney.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
But then, if the owner of the LA Times wants to not shut down Filming converting a REAL Hospital to a pretend Hospital, one that has outdoor dining (catering) and has a lot of folks in close quarters indoors, that is just fine. But then, many other businesses are forced to close down.

I don't get it. Shouldn't you be supportive of them allowing a business (a film studio) to keep operating? What's wrong with this picture?
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Take the staff being assigned to Fairview, a facility that is just empty buildings, and reassign them to an Actual Hospital building, that was being used as the "Los Angeles Surge Hospital" earlier this year!

But then, if the owner of the LA Times wants to not shut down Filming converting a REAL Hospital to a pretend Hospital, one that has outdoor dining (catering) and has a lot of folks in close quarters indoors, that is just fine. But then, many other businesses are forced to close down.

Talking about a Double Standard!!!
A facility that was to be used for minimal care non-COVID patients doesn’t give you more intensive care capacity.
 

denyuntilcaught

Well-Known Member
She Couldn't Open for Outdoor Dining. The Film Crew Next Door Could. (yahoo.com)

>>For more than a week, tensions have flared between Los Angeles restaurant owners and politicians over the county’s ban on outdoor dining, which health officials say is necessary to slow the surging pandemic — and restaurateurs say is destroying their livelihoods.

The controversy came to a head Saturday when a restaurant owner shared a video on social media showing tents, tables and chairs set up as a catering station for a film crew — just feet away from her eatery’s similar outdoor dining space, which has sat empty since the restriction went into effect late last month.

“Tell me that this is dangerous, but right next to me — as a slap in my face — that’s safe?” Angela Marsden, who owns the restaurant, Pineapple Hill Saloon & Grill, said as the video panned from her outdoor dining space to the film crew’s catering site.<<


This was a bit of a false equivalency. Film crews are tested daily. The same can't be said for people dining out.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
This was a bit of a false equivalency. Film crews are tested daily. The same can't be said for people dining out.
It’s also hypocritical. People say they want rules for different businesses to avoid just everything being closed like before but then cry fowl about how it is so ridiculous when that is done.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
A facility that was to be used for minimal care non-COVID patients doesn’t give you more intensive care capacity.

Do You not Understand.

First, California has a shortage of Hospital Beds.

Surging Virus Exposes California’s Weak Spot: A Lack of Hospital Beds and Staff - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Second, St. Vincent's had ICU beds earlier this year. It was designed to handle ONLY COVID patients.

Los Angeles Surge Hospital to Begin Accepting COVID-19 Patients - California Health and Human Services

Innovative Partnership Creates Los Angeles Surge Hospital | Kaiser Permanente

>>Governor Gavin Newsom today announced the establishment of the Los Angeles Surge Hospital, a temporary facility in Los Angeles that will expand access to additional beds and expand ICU capacity for patients who contract COVID-19. Dignity Health and Kaiser Permanente will partner with the State of California and the County of Los Angeles to open the facility, which will be located on the campus of the former St. Vincent Medical Center in central Los Angeles.

Last month, under his declaration of a State of Emergency and executive order, Governor Newsom authorized the leasing of facilities to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic, including the recently closed St. Vincent Medical Center. The hospital will create additional inpatient capacity in the community to treat the expected surge of patients with COVID-19 in the coming weeks. The facility will operate as a dedicated referral hospital and will not have an emergency room or accept walk-in patients. The County of Los Angeles’ Department of Health Services will play a critical role in coordinating intake and transfer requests from hospitals across the county.<<

LASH could provide 266 Hospital Beds that can expand ICU Beds, and advanced Care, unlike Fairview, which can only handle stabilized patients.

Costa Mesa’s Fairview Developmental Center to cease treating coronavirus patients June 30 – Orange County Register (ocregister.com)

>>Data from Orange County shows that as of May 15, 16 patients had been treated at Fairview – half each from Orange and Los Angeles counties. The facility was intended for people with milder symptoms that needed some medical attention, but not high-level care.<<

Why did the State decided to not open ANY Surge Facilities in Los Angeles County, but open them in Orange and Riverside Counties?

They have a great option for the SoCal region in LA County, why didn't they opt for the Much Better choice?
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Do You not Understand.

This was literally in the article you posted above (the most recent one not from April or May). Bold Mine:

In addition to beds, a shortage of nursing staff will make handling the surge of virus cases “extraordinarily difficult for us in California,” said Carmela Coyle, the head of the California Hospital Association, which represents 400 hospitals across the state.
The number of hospital beds in California has declined over time partly because of a trend toward more outpatient care, said Kristof Stremikis, an expert on the state’s hospital system at the California Health Care Foundation. But more acute than the shortage of beds, Mr. Stremikis says, are staffing shortages, especially in regions with high concentrations of Black, Latino and Native American patients.
“The system is blinking red when it comes to the work force,” Mr. Stremikis said. “It’s nurses, doctors, allied health professionals — we don’t have enough of many different types of clinicians in California and they’re not in the right places. It’s a huge issue.”
The beds are useless without staff to man them. Earlier in the pandemic, it was easier to share resources with other states, when California was the hot spot of the nation. Now? Not so much.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
This was literally in the article you posted above (the most recent one not from April or May). Bold Mine:

In addition to beds, a shortage of nursing staff will make handling the surge of virus cases “extraordinarily difficult for us in California,” said Carmela Coyle, the head of the California Hospital Association, which represents 400 hospitals across the state.
The number of hospital beds in California has declined over time partly because of a trend toward more outpatient care, said Kristof Stremikis, an expert on the state’s hospital system at the California Health Care Foundation. But more acute than the shortage of beds, Mr. Stremikis says, are staffing shortages, especially in regions with high concentrations of Black, Latino and Native American patients.
“The system is blinking red when it comes to the work force,” Mr. Stremikis said. “It’s nurses, doctors, allied health professionals — we don’t have enough of many different types of clinicians in California and they’re not in the right places. It’s a huge issue.”
The beds are useless without staff to man them. Earlier in the pandemic, it was easier to share resources with other states, when California was the hot spot of the nation. Now? Not so much.

OK, The Governor ordered 11 Surge Centers recently.

Fairview, a NON-Hospital, that is located in an area that does not have high concentrations of Black, Latino and Native American patients.

St. Vincent's on the other hand is located in an area with high concentration of Black and Latino patients, with a facility that is an actual hospital, with ICU Capacity.

Why did the Governor decide to send medical personal to staff Fairview instead of St. Vincent. It just doesn't make sense.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
OK, The Governor ordered 11 Surge Centers recently.

Fairview, a NON-Hospital, that is located in an area that does not have high concentrations of Black, Latino and Native American patients.

St. Vincent's on the other hand is located in an area with high concentration of Black and Latino patients, with a facility that is an actual hospital, with ICU Capacity.

Why did the Governor decide to send medical personal to staff Fairview instead of St. Vincent. It just doesn't make sense.
Because if you can get minimal care patients away from COVID patients you minimize risk of exposure leaving the hospitals with ICUs able to try and expand their facilities as much as possible. A separate facility requires more manpower to staff and operate versus trying to expand existing facilities. Even then, 1,000 more beds means nothing if you can only find 10 extra doctors.

You’ve also claimed that doctors are intentionally misdiagnosing people with COVID-19. Why does the type of facility matter if these people don’t really have COVID-19?
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
OK, The Governor ordered 11 Surge Centers recently.

Fairview, a NON-Hospital, that is located in an area that does not have high concentrations of Black, Latino and Native American patients.

St. Vincent's on the other hand is located in an area with high concentration of Black and Latino patients, with a facility that is an actual hospital, with ICU Capacity.

Why did the Governor decide to send medical personal to staff Fairview instead of St. Vincent. It just doesn't make sense.

Maybe he just loves Orange County?

Maybe it has more to do with the St Vincent's being leased from a private company and that private company not wanting to break their obligations to other lessees?
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
COVID Surge Strains Los Angeles Hospitals with 700 Admissions a Day - MyNewsLA.com

But we have a Hospital being used as a pretend Hospital for TV sitting in the Heart of LA.

And we have the governor sending Medical Staff to other facilities, such as a former Mental Hospital, which has no real Medical facilities, basically a Developmental Center designed for Patient storage, people that couldn't live in the "real" world due to severe Mental issues.

Patients that would have been sent to a nearby ER if they had a Medical problem.

Take the funds and staffing for Fairview, and shifting them to a True Medical facility, one that has true Medical Beds and a working set of ICU beds.

State of California, County of Los Angeles Partner with Dignity Health, Kaiser Permanente to Open ‘Los Angeles Surge Hospital’ (lacounty.gov)
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Maybe he just loves Orange County?

Maybe it has more to do with the St Vincent's being leased from a private company and that private company not wanting to break their obligations to other lessees?

You mean the owner of the LA Times, someone who has strongly supported Governor Newsom and Democratic causes.

But how many private companies have been forced to close from the Governor's orders?

It would have been an easy conversion to kick out the TV production, only a couple of days to remove their equipment and trailers from the facility, and then restock the hospital like they did in April.

All for the greater good, etc.

An Actual Hospital with Actual ICU Beds is sitting in an area that has been hit by COVID stronger than most, but for some reason(s), the Governor won't use his "emergency" powers to make it happen.
 
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drizgirl

Well-Known Member
You mean the owner of the LA Times, some who has strongly supported Governor Newsom and Democratic causes.

But how many private company have been forced to close from the Governor's orders?

It would have been an easy conversion to kick out the TV production, only a couple of days to remove their equipment and trailers for the facility, and then restock the hospital like they did in April.

All for the greater good, etc.

An Actual Hospital with Actual ICU Beds is sitting in an area that has been hit by COVID stronger than most, but for some reason(s), the Governor won't use his "emergency" powers to make it happen.
I guess we're all in this together. Until we're not.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
But we have a Hospital being used as a pretend Hospital for TV sitting in the Heart of LA.

No. You have a bankrupted medical facility being leased out to the highest bidder. Spending the money to lease the facility does not magically turn it into a hospital, unless all those actors are REALLY good at what they do.


Take the funds and staffing for Fairview, and shifting them to a True Medical facility, one that has true Medical Beds and a working set of ICU beds.

ICU beds are worthless without the staff, and the staff is what is at a premium right now. Not the beds.

Fairview is being spun up, as you even admitted above, for STABILIZED COVID patients that still require attention, but not ICU level care. The staff being used at Fairview, are not qualified to staff an ICU bed. Even if you moved the same staff and the same funding over to St Vincent, you would still have the same level of care and the ICU beds (if there are any available - some folks online believe they were leased as well) would be worthless.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
An Actual Hospital with Actual ICU Beds is sitting in an area that has been hit by COVID stronger than most, but for some reason(s), the Governor won't use his "emergency" powers to make it happen.

You want the governor to use his emergency powers to shut down a business (the film studio) and invalidate a legally binding lease between two parties? Honestly, if it would help, I am all for it. The more emergency powers the better... right?

I still don't know where the staff is going to come from.

Also: how do you know that the ICU beds are still just sitting there unused? I read up on St Vincent's and it looks like they had leased more ICU beds back when they spun it up in March. The hospital was bankrupt prior to that, so I would assume some effort was being made to relocate/resell valuable medical equipment before the pandemic struck. The state only leased it for six months, but closed it after 2. So presumably those ICU beds were removed when the hospital was decommissioned in May.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
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ICU capacity now at 1.7%
 

MoonRakerSCM

Well-Known Member
Just went shopping for a soup I'm making tomorrow, a creamy tomato chicken, spinach, and tortellini soup. The hip kids online call it "The Soup". Grabbed a digiorno pizza for an early dinner tonight. Stater Bros was packed!

Before that I went to Dicks to get some proper pants and waterproof spray for my boots for my upcoming Montana trip. It's going to cold as heck up there...

On the home front though my drink around the world shirts have arrived for my WDW trip next week... 7days from right now Mickey will be sweeping my passed out body from the floor of the France Pavilion.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Just went shopping for a soup I'm making tomorrow, a creamy tomato chicken, spinach, and tortellini soup. The hip kids online call it "The Soup". Grabbed a digiorno pizza for an early dinner tonight. Stater Bros was packed!

Before that I went to Dicks to get some proper pants and waterproof spray for my boots for my upcoming Montana trip. It's going to cold as heck up there...

On the home front though my drink around the world shirts have arrived for my WDW trip next week... 7days from right now Mickey will be sweeping my passed out body from the floor of the France Pavilion.

Sitting on a bench in Solvang resting while friends are browsing. Sunny and crisp and gorgeous, and the town is packed full of Christmas shoppers. Solvang is purposely not obeying Newsom's orders because the Christmas shopping season is too important for their livelihoods. Mostly decades-old family small businesses here, no big chains. Pea Soup Andersen's is the big dog in town, not Applebee's or WalMart.

Also, checked in early to the hip little hotel and wasn't asked if we were "first responders". It's obvious just by looking that my crowd isn't going to be the first to respond to anything, except maybe Happy Hour. :cool:
 

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