Star Wars: The Acolyte

[Disney Irish]

Yeah, why don’t people on a Disney message board complain about Jake Gyllenhaal? Surely there’s a lot of unaired grievances about (checks notes) Prince of Persia.

Rudd’s Ant-Man films - especially the last one - have been critiqued a lot.

Wilson was perfectly fine in the Loki series (which was well recieved).

Jake has been in the following Disney movies (one is actually Sony but since its part of the MCU it counts) -

Bubble Boy
Midnight Mile
Proof
Prince of Persia
Spider-Man: Far from home.
Strange World

The last one got lots and lots of hate across the interwebs, but never any against Jake himself. Which I believe is the point that @BrianLo was trying to make.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Oh you misunderstand me! I have absolutely no care in the world if Acolyte is good or not. I hope it is for me - and then I guess I hope if I find it really good, it finds an audience so it can be renewed.

Star Wars isn't really my franchise, I'm definitely not as big of a fan as most of the rest of you are.

I get that…but you’re not an idiot that retreats to the silo behind the D

The contention that criticism is bigotry under veil is just not worthy of the play it gets…

That kinda thing does happen from the gremlins in the shadows…but SW fans want good material and will respond accordingly…
They are dreamers after all.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Jake has been in the following Disney movies (one is actually Sony but since its part of the MCU it counts) -

Bubble Boy
Midnight Mile
Proof
Prince of Persia
Spider-Man: Far from home.
Strange World

The last one got lots and lots of hate across the interwebs, but never any against Jake himself. Which I believe is the point that @BrianLo was trying to make.

So him getting more personal hate would validate the criticism of films he’s not in?

This must be new math

 

[erasure fan1]

There has been 2 episodes, not much to talk about yet. And also not sure how you can have "die-hard fans" for something that is less than a week old.

The spoiler thread has been active though.

I get what you're saying but I'd counter with, rember episode 1 of mando season 1? The next day it was off the charts. I think that's why the acolyte reception has been so tepid. It didn't have that hook, that wow factor right off the bat. It doesn't mean it's a lost cause or an automatic failure. But it could be a issue when it comes to maintaining viewership. A lot of people love to move on if they're not hooked right away. If it sticks the landing, it won't be a problem.

 

[Disney Irish]

So him getting more personal hate would validate the criticism of films he’s not in?

This must be new math

Nope, I believe as @BrianLo was trying to point out, that the female actors and BIPOC actors all got hate on their casting not only prior to but after their particular movies or shows came out no matter what was said about the content itself. Jake never got one peep of negativity said about him on his casting prior to or after Strange World came out.

Its a double standard that deserves to be called out anytime it happens.

 

[BrianLo]

The contention that criticism is bigotry under veil is just not worthy of the play it gets…

No, that was not the point. The point is that bigotry exists independently of the criticism, but you are in denial about bigotry, because you're too invested in criticizing the product to look at what else is also happening.

I thought The Little Mermaid was rather bad. I also think Halle Bailey was very unfairly targeted. That's all.

Is Acolyte getting review bombed because people are mad at Star Wars? Yes.
Is Acolyte getting extra review bombed because bigots are mad at the diversity of this non-grandfathered cast? Also yes.

One does not measure the other, but they both are happening, because the fandom is angry and that invites in toxicity.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I get what you're saying but I'd counter with, rember episode 1 of mando season 1? The next day it was off the charts. I think that's why the acolyte reception has been so tepid. It didn't have that hook, that wow factor right off the bat. It doesn't mean it's a lost cause or an automatic failure. But it could be a issue when it comes to maintaining viewership. A lot of people love to move on if they're not hooked right away. If it sticks the landing, it won't be a problem.

I think there was still way more pent up demand when Mando premiered

Also optimism that streaming was a good path for Star Wars content. Results very mixed since

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Nope, I believe as @BrianLo was trying to point out, that the female actors and BIPOC actors all got hate on their casting not only prior to but after their particular movies or shows came out no matter what was said about the content itself. Jake never got one pep of negativity said about him on his casting prior to or after Strange World came out.

Its a double standard that deserves to be called out anytime it happens.

And that “double standard” is not quite applicable

It’s Star Wars…it’s different.

If Jake had played general grievous…he’d have been spit roasted over hot coals

 

[Disney Irish]

I get what you're saying but I'd counter with, rember episode 1 of mando season 1? The next day it was off the charts. I think that's why the acolyte reception has been so tepid. It didn't have that hook, that wow factor right off the bat. It doesn't mean it's a lost cause or an automatic failure. But it could be a issue when it comes to maintaining viewership. A lot of people love to move on if they're not hooked right away. If it sticks the landing, it won't be a problem.

I would think that more has to do with Mando being the first of its kind SW show made like the movies. It was pent up demand that was released.

We're now several of these shows in and of course there is drop-off. Even if the content is good its hard to hold an audience for long period of time, just look at the MCU (quality conversations aside).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No, that was not the point. The point is that bigotry exists independently of the criticism, but you are in denial about bigotry, because you're too invested in criticizing the product to look at what else is also happening.

I thought The Little Mermaid was rather bad. I also think Halle Bailey was very unfairly targeted. That's all.

Is Acolyte getting review bombed because people are mad at Star Wars? Yes.
Is Acolyte getting extra review bombed because bigots are mad at the diversity of this non-grandfathered cast? Also yes.

One does not measure the other, but they both are happening, because the fandom is angry and that invites in toxicity.

If I’m in denial about bigotry…it is compensated for by denial of just how awful a certain entertainment giant has mishandled their IP…with the financials to back that up.

And you’ll say that’s not it…but it’s alot bigger part of “it” than most will admit

 

[Disney Irish]

And that “double standard” is not quite applicable

It’s Star Wars…it’s different.

If Jake had played general grievous…he’d have been spit roasted over hot coals

You have to pull those "it's Star Wars it's different" blinders off my friend. Star Wars doesn't get a pass just because we're a fan. It is a double standard, and must be called out if the fandom is truly to heal.

 

[BrianLo]

Nope, I believe as @BrianLo was trying to point out, that the female actors and BIPOC actors all got hate on their casting not only prior to but after their particular movies or shows came out no matter what was said about the content itself. Jake never got one pep of negativity said about him on his casting prior to or after Strange World came out.

Its a double standard that deserves to be called out anytime it happens.

Precisely. I wasn't even being ambiguous about the movies I mentioned. I listed all the recent flops up through the Marvels and threw in Rachel for good measure. Strange World was extra, extra, extra disliked around these parts. But Jake is unscathed.

And that “double standard” is not quite applicable

It’s Star Wars…it’s different.

If Jake had played general grievous…he’d have been spit roasted over hot coals

I wasn't talking about Star Wars. I was talking about Strange World, Quantumania, The Little Mermaid, Indy 4, Haunted Mansion, The Marvels and the forthcoming Snow White.

You keep making excuses. Oh it's just Star Wars. Or oh it's just bad quality movies. Don't you see the association?

Star Wars is extra critical though, I agree.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I would think that more has to do with Mando being the first of its kind SW show made like the movies. It was pent up demand that was released.

We're now several of these shows in and of course there is drop-off. Even if the content is good its hard to hold an audience for long period of time, just look at the MCU (quality conversations aside).

Also 3 of the 5 streaming shows have been…well…not very good.

That does matter now.

 

[BrianLo]

If I’m in denial about bigotry…it is compensated for by denial of just how awful a certain entertainment giant has mishandled their IP…with the financials to back that up.

And you’ll say that’s not it…but it’s alot bigger part of “it” than most will admit

Actually I'll say that's exactly it. You are really mad at Star Wars and you are really mad at Disney. I get that.

No one listened to George. It all leads to suffering eventually.

 

[Disney Irish]

Also 3 of the 5 streaming shows have been…well…not very good.

That does matter now.

Personally I've enjoyed all the shows, but if others haven't I can understand that.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You have to pull those "it's Star Wars it's different" blinders off my friend. Star Wars doesn't get a pass just because we're a fan. It is a double standard, and must be called out if the fandom is truly to heal.

I know you won’t believe it…
…and that is why you fail

You know Star Wars…specifically Star Wars…has been studied in both academia and business for decades?

There’s a lot of material out there…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Actually I'll say that's exactly it. You are really mad at Star Wars and you are really mad at Disney. I get that.

No one listened to George. It all leads to suffering eventually.

Nope…you executed the perfect flip but fell on the Landing

We’ll keep working on it

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Personally I've enjoyed all the shows, but if others haven't I can understand that.

One was terrible

One was very divisive

One is very well crafted but has low appeal

One was just kinda flat

And one was pretty ingenious…but they shark jumped it…so let’s make a movie!!!

 

[Disney Irish]

I know you won’t believe it…
…and that is why you fail

You know Star Wars…specifically Star Wars…has been studied in both academia and business for decades?

There’s a lot of material out there…

I'm well aware that SW has been studied (and tried to be replicated) for decades. Still doesn't give it a pass when it comes to the toxicity that was allowed to leech in and continues reside within the fan community. I know you think that all it takes it just "make great Star Wars" and that all goes away, but it doesn't. The only way to get rid of it is to call it out bring it to light and purge it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm well aware that SW has been studied (and tried to be replicated) for decades. Still doesn't give it a pass when it comes to the toxicity that was allowed to leech in and continues reside within the fan community. I know you think that all it takes it just "make great Star Wars" and that all goes away, but it doesn't. The only way to get rid of it is to call it out bring it to light and purge it.

I’m sure if Jurassic park and ghostbusters were so picked apart…they’d have some angry @$$ fans spouting too…