SPLITSVILLE

[Disney Irish]

The attempt to restate the post into something entirely differnet shows you have no retort.

I've stated several times its my personal opinion, I don't have to have a retort.

Do I think there enough of a convention business to drive sales to Splitsville, maybe maybe not, we'll see. But again my person feeling is that there isn't enough of a tourist/convention market at this point for this place to be successful.

DLR has been a locals park, that hasn't changed for a long time. Until that demographic changes to be a majority tourist/convention goers I don't see it working long term. And I don't see it changing in a large scale way to tip the scale to being more tourist/conversation goers for at least 5 years or more. They would have to completely do away with APs for that scale to tip in any meaningful way.

As I've said previously, I very well could be wrong and the place will be successful. And I truly hope it is successful because I don't like to see any business fail. But I just think, again in my personal opinion, it was the wrong location for this type of business. And as I mentioned before, I really would like too see the rest of DTD not being used for the new hotel to be reused for park expansion.

 

[flynnibus]

I've stated several times its my personal opinion, I don't have to have a retort.

Do I think there enough of a convention business to drive sales to Splitsville, maybe maybe not, we'll see. But again my person feeling is that there isn't enough of a tourist/convention market at this point for this place to be successful.

And how is this place any different from the resturants that have called DTD home for the last 15+ years? Your entire argument is predicated on the idea businesses can't survive if they don't appeal to the locals. You need to step outside the bubble man. This is 2 blocks away from the largest convention center on the west coast. The entire area is covered in hotels. Where do you think all those people go?? They don't go inside Disneyland to eat...

 

[Disney Irish]

And how is this place any different from the resturants that have called DTD home for the last 15+ years? Your entire argument is predicated on the idea businesses can't survive if they don't appeal to the locals. You need to step outside the bubble man. This is 2 blocks away from the largest convention center on the west coast. The entire area is covered in hotels. Where do you think all those people go?? They don't go inside Disneyland to eat...

And you very well could be right. Am I not entitled to my own opinion no matter whether you believe it to be wrong?!?

Since you want to concentrate only on convention goers, my belief is that most will not want to go to a bowling facility no matter how upscale the food offering will be. And for that matter I don't think most go to DTD to eat 100% of the time either. Its the reason why you see all the restaurants in the resort area full, not just DTD. If DTD was the only place to go then I would say sure you are 100% right Splitsville could be the prime spot. But with so many offerings available within a short distance to the convention center will Splitsville be on the top of the list, in my opinion no.

And think about this, there are likely a large population of the convention goers that don't like Disney. *GASP* So will avoid DTD and the rest of the DLR no matter how close it is the to the convention center. Also how many will avoid it just because they don't want to deal with the crowds or security from DLR.

Point is there are many reasons why I think Splitsville won't work there long term. But I'll say it again, I could very well be wrong.

 

[flynnibus]

And you very well could be right. Am I not entitled to my own opinion no matter whether you believe it to be wrong?!?

I didn't say you were 'wrong' - I asked you a question to help you think about how you've formed your opinion. Back to my earlier post...
"You keep saying locals market. Where do all those convention hotel people go in your view?"

I asked you about your opinion and presented information in a way to make you think about how you formed that opinion. You're the one who keeps getting defensive and flailing back.

Since you want to concentrate only on convention goers, my belief is that most will not want to go to a bowling facility no matter how upscale the food offering will be.

When did I say 'only on convention goers'?? I pointed out a HUGE audience you ignored... I never said anything about them being an exclusive audience or anything.

1 - This is not a bowling alley - This is a social place to eat, drink play. It's the same formula as places that are themed, have actors, have games, etc. The games are there to provide a form of entertainment and differentiation from another place to eat.
2 - This is not targeted at bowlers - It's a horrible experience for anyone who bowls with any regularity. It's not for bowlers, nor does it try to be.

And for that matter I don't think most go to DTD to eat 100% of the time either. Its the reason why you see all the restaurants in the resort area full, not just DTD

Again you insert new criteria just to make it easier to tear the point down (this called a Strawman BTW...). Why the '100% of the time' or 'the prime spot' criteria to consider this viable? It's BS. The point is you have tens of thousands of people staying in the area who are NOT THERE FOR DISNEYLAND. They go all over for hosting gatherings, dinner, drinks, after hours, etc. DTD is just one of several areas people goto.. DTD is convenient due to location and diversity.

And think about this, there are likely a large population of the convention goers that don't like Disney. *GASP* So will avoid DTD and the rest of the DLR no matter how close it is the to the convention center. Also how many will avoid it just because they don't want to deal with the crowds or security from DLR.

Have you seen a large number of the restaurants in DTD closing or struggling? Why do you think this venue is going to buck the trend and market that is already pretty well established in this location?

 

[Disney Irish]

I didn't say you were 'wrong' - I asked you a question to help you think about how you've formed your opinion. Back to my earlier post...
"You keep saying locals market. Where do all those convention hotel people go in your view?"

I asked you about your opinion and presented information in a way to make you think about how you formed that opinion. You're the one who keeps getting defensive and flailing back.



When did I say 'only on convention goers'?? I pointed out a HUGE audience you ignored... I never said anything about them being an exclusive audience or anything.

1 - This is not a bowling alley - This is a social place to eat, drink play. It's the same formula as places that are themed, have actors, have games, etc. The games are there to provide a form of entertainment and differentiation from another place to eat.
2 - This is not targeted at bowlers - It's a horrible experience for anyone who bowls with any regularity. It's not for bowlers, nor does it try to be.




Again you insert new criteria just to make it easier to tear the point down (this called a Strawman BTW...). Why the '100% of the time' or 'the prime spot' criteria to consider this viable? It's BS. The point is you have tens of thousands of people staying in the area who are NOT THERE FOR DISNEYLAND. They go all over for hosting gatherings, dinner, drinks, after hours, etc. DTD is just one of several areas people goto.. DTD is convenient due to location and diversity.



Have you seen a large number of the restaurants in DTD closing or struggling? Why do you think this venue is going to buck the trend and market that is already pretty well established in this location?

I just don't believe its a venue that will work. I know someone personally that works in upper management at Bowlmor here in the Bay Area and they aren't doing well. The places are empty most of the time. Rumor has it they are looking to close locations across the nation. Its a trend they see in the whole restaurant/bowing entertainment industry. Now of course they won't say this publicly, but its known internally. Now this may have nothing to do with Splitsville or this specific location, but its the basis for my opinion.

Tourist/Convention goers may flock to it and it maybe the most successful thing at DTD. But I still have a feeling, and again its based on my personal relationship with someone in that industry, that it won't do well long term.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

Hmmm...I guess one could say that this new establishment has caused quite a..."split"...in people's opinions!!

OK, OK, I'll show myself out.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

just don't believe its a venue that will work. I know someone personally that works in upper management at Bowlmor here in the Bay Area and they aren't doing well.

To be fair though Bowlmore is a slightly different concept, and none of their venues are wedged between two of the world's most popular theme parks with 20 million people passing through every year.

 

[Rich T]

I'll go there if they make these guys the mascots:

 

[Disney Irish]

To be fair though Bowlmore is a slightly different concept, and none of their venues are wedged between two of the world's most popular theme parks with 20 million people passing through every year.

And that could be the difference maker, I don't know. Is a restaurant with bowling for entertainment going to be the big draw that brings in the masses, again I don't know. And I'm willing to state, as I have now numerous times, that I could be 100% wrong. But I just have a feeling its not going to be as popular as some on here want to make it. The restaurant will pack them in for a period of time, but that will wear off. Especially when you are paying $21 for a burger and $24 per person for a game not including shoe rental. But I know its not a bowling place, its a restaurant that just happens to have bowling.

As I've said I rather have DTD used for park expansion. You could move the west side esplanade facilities over there to be included in the new hotel. And then add that to the eastern side once the gateway project moves forward and you have a lot of park expansion for both parks.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

As I've said I rather have DTD used for park expansion.

And there it is. The real reason why you hope think this place will fail.

 

[Disney Irish]

And there it is. The real reason why you hope think this place will fail.

Lol, not even. But I do think that whole area could be used better.

 

[nevol]

I just don't believe its a venue that will work. I know someone personally that works in upper management at Bowlmor here in the Bay Area and they aren't doing well. The places are empty most of the time. Rumor has it they are looking to close locations across the nation. Its a trend they see in the whole restaurant/bowing entertainment industry. Now of course they won't say this publicly, but its known internally. Now this may have nothing to do with Splitsville or this specific location, but its the basis for my opinion.

Tourist/Convention goers may flock to it and it maybe the most successful thing at DTD. But I still have a feeling, and again its based on my personal relationship with someone in that industry, that it won't do well long term.

Disneyland is not a random community in the bay area, though. 20 million visitors a year exclusively for leisure. 1 million APs, who don't qualify to you as tourists, but they are still buying (and maybe even addicted to) Disney's product that is largely leisure + nostalgia with company. Bowling is leisure, it's nostalgic, and it's a group activity. It is a perfect fit. You citing the decline of bowling nationwide almost fuels the demand for it at disneyland. DLR isn't pursuing a cirque show that would compete with its other nighttime entertainment, nor do they have room for golf courses and other wdw amenities. I'm not thrilled about a bowling alley either but heck, it makes all the sense in the world and it finally seems like downtown disney is offering a family entertainment and activity that isn't just retail. Something between the parks and the pools (as I doubt families were going to concerts at the house of blues).

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Maybe it's time to stop referring to DLR as "a locals park".

https://www.google.com/amp/www.lati...ess/la-fi-anaheim-tourism-20180212-story.html

 

[flynnibus]

Maybe it's time to stop referring to DLR as "a locals park".

The label still applies for DLR... given the significance of that population to the parks. What would be more accurate would be is to say 'Anaheim is not just Disneyland' - even tho DLR represents the biggest attraction in Anaheim.

 

[Stevek]

Maybe it's time to stop referring to DLR as "a locals park".

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-anaheim-tourism-20180212-story.html?outputType=amp#ampshare=http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-anaheim-tourism-20180212-story.html

No doubt that Anaheim is a very popular tourist destination and quite a few folks come here specifically to visit Disneyland. That being said, when they find a way to cut the AP population by 50%, I'll stop thinking it's a locals park.

 

[Disney Irish]

Disneyland is not a random community in the bay area, though. 20 million visitors a year exclusively for leisure. 1 million APs, who don't qualify to you as tourists, but they are still buying (and maybe even addicted to) Disney's product that is largely leisure + nostalgia with company. Bowling is leisure, it's nostalgic, and it's a group activity. It is a perfect fit. You citing the decline of bowling nationwide almost fuels the demand for it at disneyland. DLR isn't pursuing a cirque show that would compete with its other nighttime entertainment, nor do they have room for golf courses and other wdw amenities. I'm not thrilled about a bowling alley either but heck, it makes all the sense in the world and it finally seems like downtown disney is offering a family entertainment and activity that isn't just retail. Something between the parks and the pools (as I doubt families were going to concerts at the house of blues).

First, by you saying "random community in the bay area", indicates you don't know the Bay Area nor how diverse it is.

Second, I never said bowling as a venue wouldn't work, just not in that location. In my opinion, and again its my opinion, it would have worked better in a different location. My belief is that there isn't this pent up demand for places such as Splitsville inside the DLR.

But as I've said before I could be wrong and hope I am, I'm willing to admit that. Now are those that are staunchly defending Splitsville willing to do the same?

 

[Deleted member 107043]

No doubt that Anaheim is a very popular tourist destination and quite a few folks come here specifically to visit Disneyland. That being said, when they find a way to cut the AP population by 50%, I'll stop thinking it's a locals park.

They may never be able to cut it by that much, but it sure sounds like there are changes coming this year to curtail the number of APs.

 

[drizgirl]

They may never be able to cut it by that much, but it sure sounds like there are changes coming this year to curtail the number of APs.

I'm waiting to see if they make serious changes or just fiddle at the edges like they've been doing.

 

[Curious Constance]

I'm waiting to see if they make serious changes or just fiddle at the edges like they've been doing.

I'm hoping for serious changes, but expecting fiddling, because money.

 

[drizgirl]

I'm hoping for serious changes, but expecting fiddling, because money.

I really don't think they're capable of wholesale changes. Why tick off a bunch of customers to make room for more? Just like I can't see them eliminating the payment plans. They're as addicted to that income stream as the AP holders are to the parks.