SPLITSVILLE

[Stevek]

They may never be able to cut it by that much, but it sure sounds like there are changes coming this year to curtail the number of APs.

I think they can easily just by eliminating the lower two tiers and monthly payments. I don't believe they will though given the money it brings in. I'm sure they are working on a plan to bring better balance though.

 

[drizgirl]

I think they can easily just by eliminating the lower two tiers and monthly payments. I don't believe they will though given the money it brings in. I'm sure they are working on a plan to bring better balance though.

I have a hunch they're looking for a way to have their cake and eat it too. It will be interesting to see how they thread this needle.

 

[nevol]

First, by you saying "random community in the bay area", indicates you don't know the Bay Area nor how diverse it is.

Second, I never said bowling as a venue wouldn't work, just not in that location. In my opinion, and again its my opinion, it would have worked better in a different location. My belief is that there isn't this pent up demand for places such as Splitsville inside the DLR.

But as I've said before I could be wrong and hope I am, I'm willing to admit that. Now are those that are staunchly defending Splitsville willing to do the same?

I don't mean random in that the bay is generic and all neighborhoods are the same. What I mean is that regardless of the community or even its density, a real community is one where people live, work, go to school, retire, go the the doctors office, go to grocery stores, and occasionally have fun. I can see why a bowling alley would fall out of vogue in a neighborhood in which people are busy all the time and there aren't enough people dying to go bowling all the time. Disneyland however has a daytime population density of almost 200,000 people per square mile (average of 54,000 visitors to disneyland every day, half that at dca, 5/7(30,000) cast members on property, divided by the size of the property. It is a destination in which everyone except the cast members are there to spend money on leisure and play. They aren't digging through the grocery store for the right avocado, they aren't at the pharmacy, they aren't picking their kids up from school, they aren't in a meeting. Having said all that, I am disappointed with the interior. It just sort of feels anticlimactic and I can't even recall what I was expecting but the vibe is definitely off. But restaurants, the most successful ones, probably seat a thousand patrons a day and want to have a turnover time of no more than 90 minutes per party, preferably 60. So if there are 2100 guest rooms (just made that up) and maybe 10,000 people staying on property (again, just made that up), plus 75,000-80,000 guests on property in total at the parks, most of whom would probably be maximizing their value in the parks themselves, they just need to hope that 1,000 of those 75,000 people every day would want to go in for a drink or dinner, and given the limited supply of bowling, that maybe 100 people want to bowl every day. That is definitely achievable.

 

[Phroobar]

I have a hunch they're looking for a way to have their cake and eat it too. It will be interesting to see how they thread this needle.

I can almost guarantee you that Maxpass is going up in price this year. I also bet the first six months of SWGE will be Maxpass only. This will all backfire on them since no one will show up for SWGE because every fan site for the last few years said it will be packed.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't mean random in that the bay is generic and all neighborhoods are the same. What I mean is that regardless of the community or even its density, a real community is one where people live, work, go to school, retire, go the the doctors office, go to grocery stores, and occasionally have fun. I can see why a bowling alley would fall out of vogue in a neighborhood in which people are busy all the time and there aren't enough people dying to go bowling all the time. Disneyland however has a daytime population density of almost 200,000 people per square mile (average of 54,000 visitors to disneyland every day, half that at dca, 5/7(30,000) cast members on property, divided by the size of the property. It is a destination in which everyone except the cast members are there to spend money on leisure and play. They aren't digging through the grocery store for the right avocado, they aren't at the pharmacy, they aren't picking their kids up from school, they aren't in a meeting. Having said all that, I am disappointed with the interior. It just sort of feels anticlimactic and I can't even recall what I was expecting but the vibe is definitely off. But restaurants, the most successful ones, probably seat a thousand patrons a day and want to have a turnover time of no more than 90 minutes per party, preferably 60. So if there are 2100 guest rooms (just made that up) and maybe 10,000 people staying on property (again, just made that up), plus 75,000-80,000 guests on property in total at the parks, most of whom would probably be maximizing their value in the parks themselves, they just need to hope that 1,000 of those 75,000 people every day would want to go in for a drink or dinner, and given the limited supply of bowling, that maybe 100 people want to bowl every day. That is definitely achievable.

I'm sorry but I still just don't see it. I don't see there being this pent up demand for this type of venue. Long term I still have this feeling that this place will not be packing them in compared to the restaurants around it. But hey I'm willing to keep an open mind and wish the place all the success in the world.

 

[Curious Constance]

I really don't think they're capable of wholesale changes. Why tick off a bunch of customers to make room for more? Just like I can't see them eliminating the payment plans. They're as addicted to that income stream as the AP holders are to the parks.

I don't even know if I can fault Disney for catering to the APers. I mean, I hate it, but these people are so addicted and engaged Disney can basically do anything and they'll be foaming at the mouths.
Although, I still think they'd earn more money if they did attract more vacationers. It's just a risk, and we all know Disney doesn't like risks.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't even know if I can fault Disney for catering to the APers. I mean, I hate it, but these people are so addicted and engaged Disney can basically do anything and they'll be foaming at the mouths.
Although, I still think they'd earn more money if they did attract more vacationers. It's just a risk, and we all know Disney doesn't like risks.

We'll see what happens after 2021 when the new hotel opens and they have more on-site rooms to offer. By the mid-2020s I expect there to be a turnover to being more tourists than APs. By then I also expect new projects that will overhaul some of the neglected areas of the DLR such as TL, FL, TT, and DCA with Marvel.

 

[nevol]

We'll see what happens after 2021 when the new hotel opens and they have more on-site rooms to offer. By the mid-2020s I expect there to be a turnover to being more tourists than APs. By then I also expect new projects that will overhaul some of the neglected areas of the DLR such as TL, FL, TT, and DCA with Marvel.

Agreed agreed agreed. Disneyland resort's hotel occupancy has been almost 100% for a decade, even when DCA was like Chernobyl. They definitely can stand to add 700more rooms, and when they do that and occupancy is still above 90%, then they can add another 700, and another, and another. If SW:GE is really popular, which it will be, and it puts disneyland over the edge crowdwise, which it will because Disneyland is already basically at its carrying capacity because of all the APs, then they can limit the level of APs in the park by limiting the number overall, making it more expensive, blockout dates, and date-specific reservations/rsvps online. Tons of ways of cutting half the visitors out and growing the number of people paying full-price at the gate, increasing their average cost per visitor to be there. Because right now, a ticket to disneyland might be 100-130 dollars, but because half the park is not paying the gate ticket price because they have an AP, the average price they get per visitor is way below $100. Every park has different per-capita spending, which is why WDW's parks are probably more profitable than disneyland even if and when disneyland's attendance surpasses that of the magic kingdom's as it has been rumored to do recently. Disneyland resort is way cheaper to operate though because it doesn't have to manage a highway system, transportation, and 30,000 hotel rooms.

 

[Disney Irish]

Agreed agreed agreed. Disneyland resort's hotel occupancy has been almost 100% for a decade, even when DCA was like Chernobyl. They definitely can stand to add 700more rooms, and when they do that and occupancy is still above 90%, then they can add another 700, and another, and another. If SW:GE is really popular, which it will be, and it puts disneyland over the edge crowdwise, which it will because Disneyland is already basically at its carrying capacity because of all the APs, then they can limit the level of APs in the park by limiting the number overall, making it more expensive, blockout dates, and date-specific reservations/rsvps online. Tons of ways of cutting half the visitors out and growing the number of people paying full-price at the gate, increasing their average cost per visitor to be there. Because right now, a ticket to disneyland might be 100-130 dollars, but because half the park is not paying the gate ticket price because they have an AP, the average price they get per visitor is way below $100. Every park has different per-capita spending, which is why WDW's parks are probably more profitable than disneyland even if and when disneyland's attendance surpasses that of the magic kingdom's as it has been rumored to do recently. Disneyland resort is way cheaper to operate though because it doesn't have to manage a highway system, transportation, and 30,000 hotel rooms.

Still doesn't mean I think that Splitsville is the right venue for that locations lol

 

[nevol]

Still doesn't mean I think that Splitsville is the right venue for that locations lol

Okay... then where? are you saying nobody at disneyland resort wants to bowl, or just that you'd rather it was south of the disneyland hotel not taking up "theme park expansion land?" Any adventureland expansion would have to wiggle between main street and jungle cruise, and then they'd have to cover the indy show building with rockwork because the entire backstage area from indy to pirates is a mess of warehouses and asphalt. I think the splitsville site is huge too, but that won't be redeveloped for another 30 years, if ever, when Disneyland is built out and they are desperate. Splitsville can monetize that corner of downtown disney for the next 20 years without getting in the way of anything.

 

[Disney Irish]

Okay... then where? are you saying nobody at disneyland resort wants to bowl, or just that you'd rather it was south of the disneyland hotel not taking up "theme park expansion land?" Any adventureland expansion would have to wiggle between main street and jungle cruise, and then they'd have to cover the indy show building with rockwork because the entire backstage area from indy to pirates is a mess of warehouses and asphalt. I think the splitsville site is huge too, but that won't be redeveloped for another 30 years, if ever, when Disneyland is built out and they are desperate. Splitsville can monetize that corner of downtown disney for the next 20 years without getting in the way of anything.

Personally I don't think there is that many DL visitors that want to bowl. If they do they can go to GardenWalk and visit Bowlmor.

I think any space inside the resort should be used for park expansion as much as possible. And I have a feeling once the new hotel is up and running they will look at the rest DTD as expansion space.

 

[nevol]

Personally I don't think there is that many DL visitors that want to bowl. If they do they can go to GardenWalk and visit Bowlmor.

I think any space inside the resort should be used for park expansion as much as possible. And I have a feeling once the new hotel is up and running they will look at the rest DTD as expansion space.

Well, as I just said, only 100 people a day need to bowl, out of 80,000, so that's 1 in 8000 people. Not very many. They don't need half of the people going to disneyland to want to go bowling. You could be right that relatively nobody wants to bowl when they're at disneyland, and the place will still survive, which is the point you are ignoring. And no, people visiting disneyland from out of town, either parking at mickey and friends for the day or staying at the resorts from some small town 6 states away desiring an on-property almost all-inclusive resort experience, aren't going to leave property for entertainment. They are going to look at the resort amenities and attractions listed on the park maps and the resort website as their menu of offerings.

 

[Disney Irish]

Well, as I just said, only 100 people a day need to bowl, out of 80,000, so that's 1 in 8000 people. Not very many. They don't need half of the people going to disneyland to want to go bowling. You could be right that relatively nobody wants to bowl when they're at disneyland, and the place will still survive, which is the point you are ignoring. And no, people visiting disneyland from out of town, either parking at mickey and friends for the day or staying at the resorts from some small town 6 states away desiring an on-property almost all-inclusive resort experience, aren't going to leave property for entertainment. They are going to look at the resort amenities and attractions listed on the park maps and the resort website as their menu of offerings.

I'm not ignoring anything. I have an opinion, which is what you and others are ignoring. I have stated many many times now that I could be wrong and the place might be successful. I just have a different opinion, and that should be fine. I don't know why you and others have an issue with me have a different opinion. I thought the whole point of these boards were to express opinions on topics related to Disney and things around Disney. So why is it that you and others can't accept that I have this differing opinion to yours? Why can't you just leave it as I have a different opinion to yours?

 

[nevol]

I'm not ignoring anything. I have an opinion, which is what you and others are ignoring. I have stated many many times now that I could be wrong and the place might be successful. I just have a different opinion, and that should be fine. I don't know why you and others have an issue with me have a different opinion. I thought the whole point of these boards were to express opinions on topics related to Disney and things around Disney. So why is it that you and others can't accept that I have this differing opinion to yours? Why can't you just leave it as I have a different opinion to yours?

Boards are also a good place for information exchange. You might easily be able to share an idea or some information I hadn't thought of, which might make me reconsider my opinion. Instead you just keep restating and defending your right to the same baseless opinion without offering so much as one observation or evidence to support it. If this were a design project at imagineering or a board meeting at Team Disney Anaheim over what to fill that space with and all you could offer was "Personally, I think" and "In my opinion," then nobody would listen to a word you have to say. You might be told that it doesn't matter what you think because we have a mountain of surveys and market research data doing our jobs of determining what to do with this project for us. And they are so confident that it will work that they are upcharging the living crap out of the food and entertainment offerings.

 

[Curious Constance]

Personally I don't think there is that many DL visitors that want to bowl. If they do they can go to GardenWalk and visit Bowlmor.

I think any space inside the resort should be used for park expansion as much as possible. And I have a feeling once the new hotel is up and running they will look at the rest DTD as expansion space.

All those people have to eat though. And the resort is already so limited in good places to eat. I think DTD should be mostly restaurants. One large, fun Disney store, and one or two other diversions to give the vacationers looking for more than just theme parks a break. Lots of families travel to Disneyland, not all members of all families love theme parks. My husband hates them. He'd never go again if it was up to him. He'd love having something like bowling or laser tag to do as an alternative way to spend time with us while at Disneyland.

 

[Disney Irish]

Boards are also a good place for information exchange. You might easily be able to share an idea or some information I hadn't thought of, which might make me reconsider my opinion. Instead you just keep restating and defending your right to the same baseless opinion without offering so much as one observation or evidence to support it. If this were a design project at imagineering or a board meeting at Team Disney Anaheim over what to fill that space with and all you could offer was "Personally, I think" and "In my opinion," then nobody would listen to a word you have to say. You might be told that it doesn't matter what you think because we have a mountain of surveys and market research data doing our jobs of determining what to do with this project for us. And they are so confident that it will work that they are upcharging the living crap out of the food and entertainment offerings.

At time point I thinks its best to just agree to disagree. I have stated my opinion, and while I appreciate yours and others statements to counter my opinion, I still have the same opinion. This is not me being stubborn, but rather just acknowledging that I have a differing opinion which I'm entitled to.

As I've said before I wish the place all the success and hope it does well.

 

[nevol]

At time point I thinks its best to just agree to disagree. I have stated my opinion, and while I appreciate yours and others statements to counter my opinion, I still have the same opinion. This is not me being stubborn, but rather just acknowledging that I have a differing opinion which I'm entitled to.

As I've said before I wish the place all the success and hope it does well.

Sorry. Haven't had coffee in 2 months and had 2 cups today! While it was sometimes clear that you just thought park expansion land was a higher priority and the market for bowling was almost irrelevant, phrases like "I just don't see it" invited my coffee brain back again and again to provide more evidence to help you see it. Wasn't really what you were looking for. My B!

 

[Disney Irish]

All those people have to eat though. And the resort is already so limited in good places to eat. I think DTD should be mostly restaurants. One large, fun Disney store, and one or two other diversions to give the vacationers looking for more than just theme parks a break. Lots of families travel to Disneyland, not all members of all families love theme parks. My husband hates them. He'd never go again if it was up to him. He'd love having something like bowling or laser tag to do as an alternative way to spend time with us while at Disneyland.

I just personally don't think the outdoor mall is the right utilization of this space anymore. I agree restaurants are needed, but I also think that with the limited space available for the resort the whole area could be used better.

 

[Curious Constance]

I just personally don't think the outdoor mall is the right utilization of this space anymore. I agree restaurants are needed, but I also think that with the limited space available for the resort the whole area could be used better.

I hate the mall aspect and think that should go. No stupid surfer stores please.

 

[nevol]

I just personally don't think the outdoor mall is the right utilization of this space anymore. I agree restaurants are needed, but I also think that with the limited space available for the resort the whole area could be used better.

Given how dense the parks are and not very park-like, something like fantasia gardens or the lush entrance pedestrian boulevards connecting hong kong disneyland's hotels with the park would be nice in that area. I've never liked downtown disney there either. Disney released some more information about the new hotel today though and despite going in downtown disney, it will actually have the unexpected effect of connecting all the disneyland resort hotels with greenspace. No more visible surface parking between grand californian, disneyland hotel, and paradise pier. Eager to see how truthful that is.