News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[LittleBuford]

Here's a few Disney releases from 2008/2009 - can you guess which of these films had the lowest domestic box office?

(Hint: It wasn't the one about the hamsters.)

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So what?

 

[Dranth]

So what?

Don't you get it, the box office is the only measure that has ever existed and is an infallible indication of how well liked a movie is. All movies cease to exist once they leave the box office so none of them can ever gain popularity over time. It's why movies like The Shawshank Redemption, The Thing, Children of Men, Citizen Kane, The Big Lebowski, The Wizard of Oz, Office Space, etc. are all trash tier movies because they were considered bombs at the box office.

 

[LittleBuford]

Don't you get it, the box office is the only measure that has ever existed and is an infallible indication of how well liked a movie is. All moves cease to exist once they leave the box office so none of them can ever gain popularity over time. It's why movies like The Shawshank Redemption, The Thing, Children of Men, Citizen Kane, The Big Lebowski, The Wizard of Oz, Office Space, etc. are all trash tier movies because they were considered bombs at the box office.

You forgot Fantasia and Sleeping Beauty. Thank goodness Disney never did anything with those two duds after they crashed and burned at the box office!

 

[Ghost93]

T

The "winner" (or loser in this case) is indeed that box office juggernaut, Princess and the Frog!

So beloved by audiences and such a cultural touchstone in 2009, its domestic box office could not even match Bolt, G-Force, or an incredibly disturbing Jim Carrey in A Christmas Carol.

Good news, that retheming of all of Tomorrowland to G-Force is coming soon!

I still don't get why people are surprised that a Disney movie that initially underperformed later got shown love by the company. I've said this before, but Pinocchio, Fantasia, Alice in Wonderland and Sleeping Beauty were all major financial disappointments in their initial release and only grew in stature over the decades through re-releases and VHS sales.

The Princess and the Frog was a disappointment financially when it came out, but the character of TIana has remained popular, and the film has generally stood the test of time and has had a bigger impact on the culture than Bolt, which made more money in 2008 but has largely been forgotten.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

You forgot Fantasia and Sleeping Beauty. Thank goodness Disney never did anything with those two duds after they crashed and burned at the box office!

If it helps, Princess and the Frog made almost 4 times as much as Song of the South made across its initial release and multiple subsequent rereleases.

That's with 1946 numbers adjusted to match 2009 inflation, mind you.

I still don't get why people are surprised that a Disney movie that initially underperformed later got shown love by the company. I've said this before, but Pinocchio, Fantasia, Alice in Wonderland and Sleeping Beauty were all major financial disappointments in their initial release and only grew in stature over the decades through re-releases and VHS sales.

The Princess and the Frog was a disappointment financially when it came out, but the character of TIana has remained popular, and the film has generally stood the test of time and has had a bigger impact on the culture than Bolt, which made more money in 2008 but has largely been forgotten.

One of the primary distinctions here is that the Disney of the modern era is usually far more unforgiving regarding a film's initial run than the company was when Walt was around. The manner in which they have been giving Tiana a second chance is highly unusual for the Iger era. And even then, they only recently started to acknowledge Princess and the Frog as having any importance. And it's out of necessity. I also say this as someone who is a fan of the movie too.

They have not afforded nearly the same sort of second chances to their other "recent" movies from the 2000s that initially underperformed expectations. Even ones that developed a decent following in the years after release.

The reason why Tiana has been given so much attention is because the company doesn't really have a lot of other options from their vault that can fit with what they're trying to do with it. If they did have other suitable alternatives that were more successful, they wouldn't be bothering with the IP and would toss it in the garbage.

I'd be a bit more happy that Disney was giving old so-called "failed" IPs another chance if it wasn't be done in such a destructive, desperate and cynical manner.

 

[LittleBuford]

One of the primary distinctions here is that the Disney of the modern era is usually far more unforgiving regarding a film's initial run than the company was when Walt was around. The manner in which they have been giving Tiana a second chance is highly unusual for the Iger era. And even then, they only recently started to acknowledge Princess and the Frog as having any importance. And it's out of necessity. I also say this as someone who is a fan of the movie too.

They have not afforded nearly the same sort of second chances to their other "recent" movies from the 2000s that initially underperformed expectations. Even ones that developed a decent following in the years after release.

The reason why Tiana has been given so much attention is because the company doesn't really have a lot of other options from their vault that can fit with what they're trying to do with it. If they did have other suitable alternatives that were more successful, they wouldn't be bothering with the IP and would toss it in the garbage.

I'd be a bit more happy that Disney was giving old so-called "failed" IPs another chance if it wasn't be done in such a destructive, desperate and cynical manner.

Tiana’s “second chance”, as you call it, did not begin recently. She was already established as a popular character by the time the retheme was announced.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Tiana’s “second chance”, as you call it, did not begin recently. She was already established as a popular character by the time the retheme was announced.

The movie has gained *some* popularity over the years since release. But not significant enough where under normal circumstances Disney would consider it valuable enough to build a major attraction out of it. Even with a much more popular IP such as Coco, Disney has been wishy washy about committing on.

It should also be noted that Tiana herself isn't particularly popular even in her own movie. I rarely see kids wear her dress, even the ones who you would figure would want to. I like her character personally, but I do not believe my opinion is shared by all that many people based on what i've heard. She's certainly vastly overshadowed by almost every other major character in the film.

I can enjoy the movie but still concede that it is considered a failure by Disney executives. Meet the Robinsons is another such example that I really love but flopped (PATF at least did considerably better than that one, but it's still an example of how readily Disney usually tosses aside their "flops" as trash nowadays and doesn't care about second chances).

 

[LittleBuford]

The movie has gained *some* popularity over the years since release. But not significant enough where under normal circumstances Disney would consider it valuable enough to build a major attraction out of it. Even with a much more popular IP such as Coco, Disney has been wishy washy about committing on.

It should also be noted that Tiana herself isn't particularly popular even in her own movie. I rarely see kids wear her dress, even the ones who you would figure would want to. I like her character personally, but I do not believe my opinion is shared by all that many people based on what i've heard. She's certainly vastly overshadowed by almost every other major character in the film.

I can enjoy the movie but still concede that it is considered a failure by Disney executives. Meet the Robinsons is another such example that I really love but flopped (PATF at least did considerably better than that one, but it's still an example of how readily Disney usually tosses aside their "flops" as trash nowadays and doesn't care about second chances).

Tiana was made a Disney princess back in 2010. Disney decided then that they weren’t going to toss her aside, and she has, as far as I’ve witnessed, remained a well-liked and visible character ever since.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

The movie has gained *some* popularity over the years since release. But not significant enough where under normal circumstances Disney would consider it valuable enough to build a major attraction out of it. Even with a much more popular IP such as Coco, Disney has been wishy washy about committing on.

It should also be noted that Tiana herself isn't particularly popular even in her own movie. I rarely see kids wear her dress, even the ones who you would figure would want to. I like her character personally, but I do not believe my opinion is shared by all that many people based on what i've heard. She's certainly vastly overshadowed by almost every other major character in the film.

I can enjoy the movie but still concede that it is considered a failure by Disney executives. Meet the Robinsons is another such example that I really love but flopped (PATF at least did considerably better than that one, but it's still an example of how readily Disney usually tosses aside their "flops" as trash nowadays and doesn't care about second chances).

It should be noted that the bolded is entirely anecdotal.

Again, Song of the South wasn't even available in the US by the time Splash Mountain began development, and was never made available again.

The story of what Disney elects to build attractions around runs far deeper than just box office performance.

 

[James Alucobond]

One of the primary distinctions here is that the Disney of the modern era is usually far more unforgiving regarding a film's initial run than the company was when Walt was around. The manner in which they have been giving Tiana a second chance is highly unusual for the Iger era. And even then, they only recently started to acknowledge Princess and the Frog as having any importance. And it's out of necessity. I also say this as someone who is a fan of the movie too.

They have not afforded nearly the same sort of second chances to their other "recent" movies from the 2000s that initially underperformed expectations. Even ones that developed a decent following in the years after release.

The reason why Tiana has been given so much attention is because the company doesn't really have a lot of other options from their vault that can fit with what they're trying to do with it. If they did have other suitable alternatives that were more successful, they wouldn't be bothering with the IP and would toss it in the garbage.

I'd be a bit more happy that Disney was giving old so-called "failed" IPs another chance if it wasn't be done in such a destructive, desperate and cynical manner.

I think it's less about second chances and more about the character having a highly marketable afterlife. Kind of like how an American Girl doll's success doesn't always correlate to the success of her accompanying book.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

One of the primary distinctions here is that the Disney of the modern era is usually far more unforgiving regarding a film's initial run than the company was when Walt was around. The manner in which they have been giving Tiana a second chance is highly unusual for the Iger era. And even then, they only recently started to acknowledge Princess and the Frog as having any importance. And it's out of necessity. I also say this as someone who is a fan of the movie too.

They have not afforded nearly the same sort of second chances to their other "recent" movies from the 2000s that initially underperformed expectations. Even ones that developed a decent following in the years after release.

The reason why Tiana has been given so much attention is because the company doesn't really have a lot of other options from their vault that can fit with what they're trying to do with it. If they did have other suitable alternatives that were more successful, they wouldn't be bothering with the IP and would toss it in the garbage.

I'd be a bit more happy that Disney was giving old so-called "failed" IPs another chance if it wasn't be done in such a destructive, desperate and cynical manner.

I would suggest you look back in this thread for the post cataloging the many appearances of Tiana and PatF characters within the parks since 2009, it was eye opening - the movie has had a strong and consistent presence in the parks since its release, much more than many properties from the 21st century. In fact, Tiana and/or other PatF characters have been featured in a new parks project at least once almost every single year since the film's release. Disney wouldn't have kept using Tiana, Naveen, Louis, and Facilier in this way if they felt there was no money to be made from them.

Feels like this talk of "second chances" is an attempt to sweep the real and enduring presence of this IP under the rug. Tiana's not making a comeback, she never left. Whether you were paying attention to her or not.

 

[Rich Brownn]

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Sorry, fifth highest grossing animated film of the year

 

[Rich Brownn]

Don't you get it, the box office is the only measure that has ever existed and is an infallible indication of how well liked a movie is. All movies cease to exist once they leave the box office so none of them can ever gain popularity over time. It's why movies like The Shawshank Redemption, The Thing, Children of Men, Citizen Kane, The Big Lebowski, The Wizard of Oz, Office Space, etc. are all trash tier movies because they were considered bombs at the box office.

And just remember, that would mean the best film of 1955 wasn't Oklahoma! Nope... the highest grossing film of 1955 was .... Cinerama Holiday.

 

[Rich Brownn]

I think it's less about second chances and more about the character having a highly marketable afterlife. Kind of like how an American Girl doll's success doesn't always correlate to the success of her accompanying book.

When Walt was around, there wasn't home video, streaming and for the most part, movies on network TV. Since then box office has become just a small part of a films gross. Many films, which flopped in theaters, made back their budget in streaming, pay per view and home video sales.

 

[The Mom]

When this thread was started, things were still in the planning stage. We are well past that point, and are close to TBA opening. It is time for discussions of Song of the South and Splash Mountain to end.

It is gone, never coming back, and nothing anyone says will change things.

 

[Figgy1]

When this thread was started, things were still in the planning stage. We are well past that point, and are close to TBA opening. It is time for discussions of Song of the South and Splash Mountain to end.

It is gone, never coming back, and nothing anyone says will change things.

 

[Dranth]

What will happen in this case is likely that most people will enjoy TBA, many of those that do like it will miss Splash or even still prefer it but be able to appreciate TBA as its own thing. Finally, a small group of folks will hate it no matter what so Disney can just ignore them.

 

[Disney-Universal Fanboy]

That is not as big as you think it is, its only about half the size of the Mansion building. Plus, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe those are all the cooling towers for the surrounding areas. So they aren't likely moving.

If Disneyland is to expand it'll be with the DLForward project. You can review that thread here.

Ideal buildout put a PATF dark ride in this space back in his 2016 buildout of disneyland

 

[MisterPenguin]

Still so many people want a new version of Imagination and are still confused on why Disney hasn’t done it yet

Disney spent a lot for the first version, and a lot for the second version, and a lot to fix the second version.

So, as a corporation that needs to make money to continue to exist, it's cutting its losses and letting it be. It *almost* got a redress with the new EPCOT refresh project, but, it lost its budget for other projects in the Refresh.

This is why, as was said above, if for some reason the general public isn't happy with TBA... it's going to be kept as is for decades regardless. People will still ride it as a log flume.

You'd need something as horribly bad as Superstar Limo for an immediate retheme.

 

[Disney Irish]

Ideal buildout put a PATF dark ride in this space back in his 2016 buildout of disneylandView attachment 770110

That doesn't mean that it can realistically happen just because someone drew it up as an "idea". Playing armchair Imagineer is fun, but the reality of building out something is different.