Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
You asked about other attractions, people have repeatedly pointed out times it has been mentioned, and even told you where you could find them, and you brushed it off.
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Splash Mountain re-theme announced
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You asked about other attractions, people have repeatedly pointed out times it has been mentioned, and even told you where you could find them, and you brushed it off.
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
Again, the search function is a thing that exists.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
Well that's what you would think... except according to the Woke Warriors the Uncle Remus characters of rabbit, fox and bear are a problem. Even if the SotS had never been made and only the cartoons had been made it would be a problem, because even though the stories were based on folktales handed down by blacks in America, the stories were put on paper by a white man that supposedly made the character sound too stereotypicaly black. It doesn't matter whether he capture the how the blacks at that time spoke, that isn't the issue... it is because by today's standards they sound too over the top and insulting to people today. It would be interesting to know if the original author that collected those stories had been black, if the warriors would still be on the war path.
BromBones
Well-Known Member
You do know that James Baskett, a Black American provided the voice for the Fox. How can a Fox be a racist stereotype if it is being voiced by a Black Actor?
21stamps
Well-Known Member
It’s not a game. It’s a fact. Almost every single Disney movie prior to the 2010s can be seen as offensive if we really look at the story and origins.
I am asking why/how can we ask for the removal of one, possibly a modification of another one or two, but not re-do them all. Where is the line?
If you see that as an irrational discussion, then I’m sorry that you feel that way.
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
You realize there are levels of anthropomorphism, right? If I'm following your line of logic correctly, Prince John shouldn't be levying taxes on the people of England, because lions don't actually use money, and they're not native to England.
There is NO line, and this whole movement which will now fundamentally change Disney Parks will be fun to watch. I hope they push the absolute envelope when re-doing these attractions to the point that everything is so boring that Disney loses. They deserve every bit of what they get for this dumb decision.
Yes, and you were asked within the peramiters of Splash Mountain how you know the characters are negative stereotypes and what is told and written in the publshed medium of the theme park attraction. You go in questioning the sociology and economy.
Besides your awfully racist conjectures that Brer Fox should get a job;
Your posts have yet to answer the questions asked when you claimed the characters in the ride feature many negative stereotypes of African Americans.
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
The same way that Mammy from Gone With The Wind is a stereotype despite being portrayed by a black actress.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
Yes, it was pointed out that Peter Pan and the Jungle Book may have “offensive scenes” modified.. I then asked ‘Why modified and not replaced?’ and ‘What about Cinderella?’
I do think I missed the responses..I’d appreciate if someone could quote them for me.
BromBones
Well-Known Member
Or they could just take over Tom Sawyer Island and create a Princess and the Frog ride. The snack stand is already there and it is more like a bayou. ...and leave Splash Mountain the way it is. Tom Sawyer has really nothing to do with Disney anyway.
So your answer to this claim when asked from evidence within the ride that the characters you mentioned are negative racist stereotypes is that Brer Fox did not get a job? Instead he went hunting?
From an earlier post of yours:
"It's literally there in the ride. Rabbit runs away from home to find adventure, Fox tries to catch Rabbit to eat him instead of getting a job so that he has money to buy dinner, and Br'er Bear goes "duhhh..." in practically every other line of dialogue."
I have never heard a line of dialogue that says "I am not going to work, I am going to go hunting instead"
The other things are once again, character flaws, but do not imply they are all one race? It is an animal fable story so the characters have flaws.
That is not a racial thing and leaving home on an adventure and being big and stupid is not automatically a racial stereotype.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
Someone who gets it!! This is where I’m leading.. IF all Classic Disney is taken out of Disney World/Disneyland.. leaving all attractions with film and character representations from the last decade alone.. then will Disney really be the “Disney” that everyone wants to visit?
Without the nostalgia, then it’s just a park, no longer that bond between generations.. which is what makes it so magical.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
Entertainment does not exist in a vacuum.
Flugell
Well-Known Member
As well as BLM which I absolutely agree with I think that from the U.K. and the USA we need to truly look at the treatment of native/ indigenous Americans who are still suffering as well. Read Dee Brown’s book Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. The opening page contains the saddest quote ever,
“The white man made us many promises but he kept but one, he promised to take our land and he took it.”
Absolute shame on all involved British, French and Americans amongst others. Another historical wrong that needs addressing and if that means changing rides at Disney then so be it. I don’t see the difference between destroying Splash Mountain for African Americans and reimagining Peter Pan, along with other rides for the Indigenous Americans.
“The white man made us many promises but he kept but one, he promised to take our land and he took it.”
Absolute shame on all involved British, French and Americans amongst others. Another historical wrong that needs addressing and if that means changing rides at Disney then so be it. I don’t see the difference between destroying Splash Mountain for African Americans and reimagining Peter Pan, along with other rides for the Indigenous Americans.
BromBones
Well-Known Member
Totally different. a) She was a character based on history in the old south. There were Black "Mammy's" in the south.
b) Hattie McDaniel won the Oscar, the first Black to win an Oscar for her role. So she took great pride in that role.
c) A talking fox is a made up character.
d) The tales retold in "Song of the South" were actual Black American Folk Tales.
"Uncle Remus is the fictional title character and narrator of a collection of Black American folktales compiled and adapted by Joel Chandler Harris and published in book form in 1881."
"
Uncle Remus is a collection of animal stories, songs, and oral folklore collected from southern black Americans. Many of the stories are didactic, much like those of Aesop's Fables and Jean de La Fontaine's stories. Uncle Remus is a kindly old freedman who serves as a story-telling device, passing on the folktales like the traditional African griot to children gathered around him.
The stories are written in an eye dialect devised by Harris to represent a Deep South Black dialect. Uncle Remus is a compilation of Br'er Rabbit storytellers whom Harris had encountered during his time at the Turnwold Plantation. Harris said that the use of the Black dialect was an effort to add to the effect of the stories and to allow the stories to retain their authenticity.[2] The genre of stories is the trickster tale. At the time of Harris's publication, his work was praised for its ability to capture plantation Black dialect.[3]
Br'er Rabbit ("Brother Rabbit") is the main character of the stories, a character prone to tricks and troublemaking who is often opposed by Br'er Fox and Br'er Bear. In one tale, Br'er Fox constructs a doll out of a lump of tar and puts clothing on it. When Br'er Rabbit comes along, he addresses the "tar baby" amiably but receives no response. Br'er Rabbit becomes offended by what he perceives as the tar baby's lack of manners, punches it and kicks it, and becomes stuck.[4]"
So I guess those Black Americans on the plantations who made up the stories were creating racial stereotypes too.
Learn history.
Great quote, Now answer your incredibly racist answer to the question and defend your comment that Brer Fox is a racist stereotype against black people because he will not get a job. What leads you to this conclusion? Why would you say that? What tells you that the character is supposed to be of the black race and choose not to get a job. Your feelings are not evidence.
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BromBones
Well-Known Member
Eek. You had me til this line.
Just giving the sharks something to feast on.
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