Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[celluloid]

Ehh... The characters of Br'er Rabbit, Fox, and Bear are evocative of certain stereotypes of African-Americans, some of which aren't very flattering.

If you can make a statement like that, than surely you can describe them and not just feel that way by default? In the ride, how are the characters displaying this claim?

 

[LittleBuford]

The Brer characters are adapted from African folklore.

Yes, but they’re so Disneyfied that no-one riding the attraction has any sense of their connection to African folklore, just as Under the Sea ~ Journey of The Little Mermaid is a world away from the writings of Hans Christian Andersen.

 

[Matt_Black]

If you can make a statement like that, than surely you can describe them and not just feel that way by default?

Br'er Rabbit- Would rather sit around and sing than do anything productive
Br'er Fox- Schemer trying to get an easy meal who's not nearly as clever as he thinks
Br'er Bear- big, dumb brute

You see these often applied to black characters in early Hollywood films.

 

[21stamps]

You honestly expect me to summarise thousands of posts written by other people? You asked why the debate hadn’t encompassed other problematic attraction. It has, and I pointed you in the direction of one of the many threads in which such discussion is playing out.

If you’re asking what my personal views on the issue are, I am sad to see Splash Mountain go but understand why the change is happening, and I believe that a number of scenes in other attractions (the Indian encampment in Peter Pan and the natives in The Jungle Cruise in particular) also stand to be modified.

This is very interesting. They can simply be modified, but Splash must go.. as well as the songs, according to many here.

What about Cinderella? Should she be modified (and her castle as well), or go? Or is she fine as she is?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Br'er Rabbit- Would rather sit around and sing than do anything productive
Br'er Fox- Schemer trying to get an easy meal who's not nearly as clever as he thinks
Br'er Bear- big, dumb brute

You see these often applied to black characters in early Hollywood films.

They also apply to any villain of any race or ethnicity.

 

[celluloid]

Br'er Rabbit- Would rather sit around and sing than do anything productive
Br'er Fox- Schemer trying to get an easy meal who's not nearly as clever as he thinks
Br'er Bear- big, dumb brute

They have human traits that tell the story of Brer Rabbit leaving home. The story of the ride is him looking for adventure, not being lazy. At the end he realizes sometimes appreciating home is enough. Not sure wher you got the lazy thing from. That is literally the story told by the end of the ride. How do you choose to apply this to a race? They are anthropormorphic. Why would anyone automatically put that to a race? Character flaws in a folk story equal racial stereotypes of the same race of the narrator?

 

[Matt_Black]

This is very interesting. They can simply be modified, but Splash must go.. as well as the songs, according to many here.

What about Cinderella? Should she be modified (and her castle as well), or go? Or is she fine as she is?

I haven't seen anyone in favor of the Splash Mountain change ask for Cinderella to be changed or removed. What I HAVE seen is people bring up Cinderella and others in the context of "If THEY are coming for Splash Mountain, now, then what's next?!? When will it end?!?"

 

[Flugell]

Fellow Brit here. I don’t think a comparison between Cockneys and African Americans is particularly tenable, for reasons too obvious to need stating.

Sorry disagree. I’d like to hear the reasons. I was born a cockney and I find it offensive. I’m of Welsh heritage and hate the way the rest of the world can’t pronounce the names of many of our towns. They even choose to give them different names and we’re all part of the United Kingdom. Seriously though I do appreciate that it may be on a different level but offence is offence. If Song of the South is offensive why is the actor who’s name I can’t type not equally a target for his truly atrocious accent? Is it because we’re all of the same Ethnic heritage? Having actually read every post in this forum I know that some of the reasons for people agreeing with The removal of Splash Mountain was because of the outrageous accents and the dialect that was used. Cockney rhyming slang and an unforgivable accent- what’s the difference?

 

[Matt_Black]

They also apply to any villain of any race or ethnicity.

Yes. Now, how many genius mad scientist black characters do you see in those old films? How many crusading black lawyer characters, trying to bring justice to an often injust legal system?

 

[celluloid]

Yes. Now, how many genius mad scientist black characters do you see in those old films? How many crusading black lawyer characters, trying to bring justice to an often injust legal system?

Strawmanning the argument. We are speaking of how you got this from the ride. We are aware of your liberal arts like knowledge of films and tropes. It is fun. But you are making claims and then not answering the correlation. This has nothing to do with mad scientist black characters or lack there of in old films.

I am sure you are not, but if one were to take your claims as they are without support, you would be the most racist commenter on the subject I have seen in the entire forum.

 

[21stamps]

I haven't seen anyone in favor of the Splash Mountain change ask for Cinderella to be changed or removed. What I HAVE seen is people bring up Cinderella and others in the context of "If THEY are coming for Splash Mountain, now, then what's next?!? When will it end?!?"

Exactly. Because we pick and choose what’s tolerable, even though they’re all offensive stereotypes when really look at it.

 

[LittleBuford]

This is very interesting. They can simply be modified, but Splash must go.. as well as the songs, according to many here.

What about Cinderella? Should she be modified (and her castle as well), or go? Or is she fine as she is?

I can’t tell if these are rhetorical questions or actually meant for me.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Yes. Now, how many genius mad scientist black characters do you see in those old films? How many crusading black lawyer characters, trying to bring justice to an often injust legal system?

I'm not even going to respond if you are going to resort to these tactics.

 

[LittleBuford]

Cockney rhyming slang and an unforgivable accent- what’s the difference?

Slavery and its legacies.

 

[21stamps]

I can’t tell if these are rhetorical questions or actually meant for me.

Another post quoting mine, side stepping the question entirely. lol

 

[Matt_Black]

Exactly. Because we pick and choose what’s tolerable, even though they’re all offensive stereotypes when really look at it.

Just like how you picked and chose which comments in the thread to selectively ignore (oh, I'm sorry, the thread moved too fast for you to keep up.)

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Another post quoting mine, side stepping the question entirely. lol

Because you're using tactics that make having a real discussion with you impossible.

 

[Matt_Black]

Strawmanning the argument. We are speaking of how you got this from the ride.

It's literally there in the ride. Rabbit runs away from home to find adventure, Fox tries to catch Rabbit to eat him instead of getting a job so that he has money to buy dinner, and Br'er Bear goes "duhhh..." in practically every other line of dialogue.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

It's literally there in the ride. Rabbit runs away from home to find adventure, Fox tries to catch Rabbit to eat him instead of getting a job so that he has money to buy dinner, and Br'er Bear goes "duhhh..." in practically every other line of dialogue.

What's that have to do with race? NOTHING.

 

[SoupBone]

maybe changing other attractions, like Peter Pan, the Jungle Cruise, or The Enchanted Tiki Room.

At this point, I hope Disney changes all of them including Hall of Presidents, It's a Small World, etc. and they are fundamentally changed, not just window dressing. The idiots that make these decisions should be run out of Disney Corporate.