Splash Mountain re-theme announced

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_caleb

_caleb

Well-Known Member
Figurehead said:
The politicization of everything continues. Who in their right mind goes on this ride and thinks it is a terrible scourge on humanity, rather than just enjoying it for what it is? Country Bears Jamboree might as well be next, since it is bunch of hillbilly bears, I'm sure there must be hostile undertones there. And, hey, Chef Art Smith, time to change your successful menu to some type of fusion to reflect diversity, etc. We've all gone mad.
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Has anyone claimed that the ride is a “terrible scourge on humanity?”
 
_caleb

_caleb

Well-Known Member
orlandogal22 said:
I would think if Splash Mountain was routinely exhibiting very very low wait times - a practical walk-on, I could then concur a larger group would be driving this initiative.

But that's not the case.
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To me, the long wait times are an indicator of the large number of people who don’t have a problem with it. The wait times don’t tell us anything about the number of people who might have a problem with it (or its association to Song of the South).
 
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orlandogal22

Well-Known Member
_caleb said:
To me, the long wait times are an indicator of the large number of people who don’t have a problem with it. The wait times don’t tell us anything about the number of people who might have a problem with it (or its association to Song of the South).
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That can be true.

However, my point was that if such a large swath of people felt the ride was so abhorrent to begin with, they'd have abandoned it long ago. A virtual walk-on... a dead part of Frontierland...no one ever in the gift shop...no one ever wanting to purchase their ride photo.

But that's never been the case.

Unfortunately, some who scream the loudest from their keyboards on all forms of social media seem to be the ones who get the results these days while others are left to pick up the pieces. And that goes for instances even beyond a theme park ride.
 
Brer Oswald

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
I still don’t get why people don’t understand the hypocrisy in cancelling something because it’s source material is offensive. Once again. Mickey did blackface. Mario is an Italian stereotype, most prominently in the beloved Super Mario 64. The Pokémon Jynx was a blackface stereotype. PatF has stereotypes with voodoo man. Peter Pan and several other Disney movies have stereotypes.

We say that it’s bad because the Brer characters were only in SotS. But, all of those movies (Peter Pan, Dumbo, Lady and the Tramp, etc.) were all just singular pieces of media. And if this is the case, why not create new interpretations of these stories on film?

Splash was based on the animated segments of SotS, which have been rereleased on their own through numerous Disneyland television specials. The main problematic element of these segments is the “Tar Baby”. The Tar Baby originated from the original stories without mal intent, so you can argue against whether or not it can be criticized by the same merit as other stereotypes in Disney films. But even if you put it on equal playing field to something like the Native Americans in Peter Pan, it’s got equal or less percentage of screen time in its respective film.

I don’t like the hypocrisy. I don’t get the double standard. And there is a double standard. You can argue whether or not being based on an insensitive piece of media calls for change. But you can’t defend another piece of media when it does the same thing.
 
MrHorse

MrHorse

Active Member
WDW Pro said:
I'm offended by Cinderella Castle. It represents the feminine need for a masculine savior, and supports the superiority of a ruling class over the masses.

Can we burn Cinderella Castle to the ground now?
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If you want to argue that Cinderella's Castle is contributing to an ongoing problem with ...feudalism... you're going to need some strong ammunition. 😉

If we want to take a feminist angle, consider that it's called Cinderella's Castle, not Prince Whats-his-name's Castle. =) Kidding aside, Cinderella just isn't problematic in the same way as Song of the South. Cinderella's situation is depicted as something unfortunate that she doesn't like and doesn't deserve. She's not someone that is happy toiling away endlessly like a pack animal. While her path to a happy ending may not be the most empowering, she is always depicted as someone that wants and deserves better. Cinderella is a human being with agency and her inequality is literally the central problem in the film.
 
J

JGamer

Member
Disney (and really Apple) is building their brand to appeal to a very specific type of customer. They need a younger generation to start filling their parks and are going to err on the side of that generation. They are happy to have any customer's money, but they won't cater to them. I am sure that for years Disney has known the film (and attraction) could be problematic and have been throwing around ideas. Splash Mountain is my favorite ride, but even my teenage daughter was questioning how it is still appropriate given what is going on today.

I said it earlier and I will repeat it, if you don't like it, don't go. Corporations don't owe you anything and you don't owe them anything. The Disney corporation of even the 1990s is long gone. It is never coming back. It is up to you to decide to embrace this new company or reject it.

The world is changing. What was acceptable even 15 years ago isn't acceptable now. Like it or not, that is just how it is.
 
Father Robinson

Father Robinson

Well-Known Member
_caleb said:
You keep saying that Disney is caving to a small group of complainers. What makes you think it’s a small group?
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Pretty much what the MK takes in before 3pm.
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LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Speedy71 said:
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The problem with this defence is that it flies in the face of the claim that the attraction has no real connection to Song of the South. For us to be able to learn from the past through Splash Mountain would entail acknowledging the problematic nature of its source material. And I’m not convinced that this sort of historical reflection is something that a theme park can convincingly facilitate.
 
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orlandogal22

Well-Known Member
LittleBuford said:
The problem with this defence is that it flies in the face of the claim that the attraction has no real connection to Song of the South. For us to be able to learn from the past through Splash Mountain would entail acknowledging the problematic nature of its source material. And I’m not convinced that this sort of historical reflection is something that a theme park can convincingly facilitate.
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Speedy71 was responding to my initial generalized statement as follows -

Many things in life are connected to things that are unpleasant in our past; it is whether or not one chooses to inherently - and perpetually - dwell on the unpleasant so much so that we will be stuck in a constant cancel culture.
 
SirNim

SirNim

Well-Known Member
MrHorse said:
If you want to argue that Cinderella's Castle is contributing to an ongoing problem with ...feudalism... you're going to need some strong ammunition. 😉
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Feudalism existed until 2008 in Europe. More to the point, a little boy or girl born today in the UK will never have a chance to rise to become their nation's Head of State. Imagine that! Imagine telling a precocious, intelligent, curious little boy or girl that they can do anything they want in life... except rise to become the Head of State of their beloved nation. They're legally ineligible to rise to that position. Might put a damper on their dreams...
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
SteamboatJoe said:
Almost always easier to shoot for the moon and scale a project cost back than the opposite. I know fans see it as a bait and switch but thats just how the game is played sometimes.
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Right, and that always happens but it’s part of a process that results in a budget being established and commitment to a project. This project is getting its commitment before a lot of that work. Disney has even admitted that they have not even assessed the condition of the buildings. The cost to clean and bring up to code buildings that have spent 30 years filled with water is going to be high and could easily not be worthwhile compared to starting anew (and is a serious risk to the final product once the budget is established).
 
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_caleb

_caleb

Well-Known Member
The_Jobu said:
I appreciate your points, please allow me to make a sub-point.

Splash Mountain isn't hurting anyone, it's association with a film is what is upsetting. We can already see how this is a much murkier territory than people who physically are unable to go on a ride. For example, you say this leads to a better experience for all, but I fail to see how that is the case. A group of people (at least equal to the ones that are offended) are saying this will drastically decrease their experience with a beloved ride.

Now, it is a completely subjective value, but how many people need to be offended before it demands action? That cant be answered, hence debate.

This also brings up other difficult questions. Can good art come from bad art? Is it better to build something new and keep it next to the old, or must one be torn down? This doesn't even approach questions such as Disney's legitimacy in their anti-racism statements when they continue to do flagrantly racist things in other countries, as long as it brings them more money. Hypocrisy deeply upsets some people.

I appreciate your perspective, thank you for reading my own.
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Sorry- I somehow missed these questions earlier. I think they're good ones.

IF Disney can make a version of Splash Mountain that is less offensive to the offended portion of the market while being just as good as (or better) the experience for those who were not offended by Splash Mountain, wouldn't this be "a better experience for all?" I totally understand that many fans don't have a lot of reason to hope that Disney will be able to deliver this, but wouldn't it be something to strive for? It would certainly be something that would help their public image.

I'm not sure what percentage of the audience voicing concerns should prompt Disney to act (in its own interests, of course). But it seems to me that Disney is trying to read the trend and adapt accordingly. They've never seemed to worry too much about what the uber fans think, but they have put quite a bit of effort into engaging the "influencers" and their networks.

Disney certainly isn't considering doing an exhaustive audit of everything in the company that is racially insensitive- they're looking for a gesture that serves the purpose. I think changing Splash Mountain to Princess and the Frog is a pretty good one for that.

I love Disney art (animation, films, rides/parks), but at the end of the day, it's not art for art's sake. It's commercial art. They are selling art (and merch!) to an audience. This means that there is a "negotiation" of sorts between the company and the audience(s) to determine what art the audience is willing to buy. Disney is responding by betting the general public will prefer Tiana to Bre'r Rabbit.
 
LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
orlandogal22 said:
Speedy71 was responding to my initial generalized statement as follows -

Many things in life are connected to things that are unpleasant in our past; it is whether or not one chooses to inherently - and perpetually - dwell on the unpleasant so much so that we will be stuck in a constant cancel culture.
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I don’t see how that contradicts the point I was making.
 
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